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[EKnight]

For those of you who read my post in announcements, you will recall that my first stop on my journey to truth was allaboutgod.com.  I still visit there and have my own web page (which I kinda like because I've never had one).  Anyway,  they have a forum there and I read the posts of some people and think to myself 'Bible truths has the answers' but I've never had the verve to post that there for fear of backlash.  But recently I read a post from someone asking if their friend, who commited suicide, would go to hell.  So I posted some of what I have learned here regarding salvation and how ALL WILL BE saved.  On my personal page, I posted a blog about where I had been (bible truths) and what I was discovering.  I got a very long two part opposing view of Ray's teachings.  I knew this would happen.  However, I cannot debate it, I am not that well-equipped yet.  But if any of you have the time, would you just go to my page http://www.allaboutgod.net/profiles/blog/show?id=1383940%3ABlogPost%3A104569 and read what was written to me and just give me your feedback?  I was tempted to email it to Ray but I am pretty sure that what was posted was an excerpt from something Ray has probably already seen.

Thanks Again

Eileen

[lilitalienboi16]

[edit] I wanted to remove my post because i felt i stated something inaccurately and i think it's best left up to quoting ray as he knows how to put it well.

What i feel i stated inacurately was the fact that I'm not certain anywhere in the scriptures if it mentions Christ is actualy EQUAL with the FATHER. He is indeed equal with God and found it not robbery to be equal with God, but i don't think it would be right for me to say that He is equal with the Father because i know their are several reasons of why He is not.

If someone perhaps alittle more knowledged on the subject confirm wether Christ is indeed equal with the Father with some scripture would also help me. As for now i can't say with certainty this because i can't recall any scriptures that state explicitely that He is equal with His Father, simply that He is equal with God. To this i know for certain.

God be with you,

Alex

[lilitalienboi16]

One last great point ray makes about the trinity is this;

One more time:  Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit OF God His Father. That is why He is "the Son of the FATHER," and not "the Son of the Holy Spirit."  Am I going to fast for you? Do you have an answer for this one pointalone which totally demolishes the "Holy Spirit is a separate person from Jesus and His Father and therefore God is a triune of three separate people). You don’t have an answerfor why Jesus is not "the Son of the Holy Spirit," DO YOU?  Did you know Andrew that every little school boy in the street knows that whoever "conceives" a child is the FATHER of that child when it is born. Why is it that you and most of Christendom does not know thissimple biological and Scriptural truth.

How can ONE PERSON of your "trinity" conceive a child, and then when it is born it is the SON OF A DIFFERENT PERSON of your trinity?


Oh, forget it: you are not interested in the Truths of God or the honesty of His Word.


Sincerely,
Ray

[Robin]

The one most important fact that I notice is that Jack did not use any scripture to refute any of Ray's quotes. Jack quotes opinions from his sources and gives his opinion. None of the opinions were backed up with scripture. Opinions are not truth.

[EKnight]

Yeah, I had those thoughts too MG.  It also reference a "Link" that was not there, otherwise I would have clicked it and gone to the source.  I have to admit that I am still seeking truths.  I am by no means being led by the Holy Spirit when reading because I find myself confused. Like right now I am reading one of Ray's transcripts about "Who is God the Father?" and he says Jesus is God but not the Father etc etc and I am like What?  I don't get it.  I feel stupid.

[lilitalienboi16]

Yeah, I had those thoughts too MG.  It also reference a "Link" that was not there, otherwise I would have clicked it and gone to the source.  I have to admit that I am still seeking truths.  I am by no means being led by the Holy Spirit when reading because I find myself confused. Like right now I am reading one of Ray's transcripts about "Who is God the Father?" and he says Jesus is God but not the Father etc etc and I am like What?  I don't get it.  I feel stupid.

Hello Eknight.

Their are several reasons as to why Christ is not the Father but is one with God.

It all has to do with understanding the relationship between the Father and the Son. Much like a man will live his parents to cleave to his wife and they twain become one flesh, so is Christ and the Father One God.

Their is alot to it, but in time the Lord will open your understanding if it be His will.

I'm currently much to lazy to look up the scriptures for all this but the truth can be found in what ray has written and obviously in the Word of God. Pray and study =]

God bless,

Alex

[dave]

The doctrines of christianity are tapped in with the religious
hammer of control and fear; the scriptures say and teach Truth by the Holy Spirit, but
man and his religion will have only that what he can lift up from the
from the earthy-ness of his imagination. There is no teaching of a
trinity in the scriptures.

[Kat]

Hi Eileen,

Well obviously this guy Jack, is blind to the Truth.  He simply can not see what is being explained by Ray, so he resorts to ridiculing.  He makes a lot of mute points, not disproving Ray nor proving what he believes, as with his long pointless post on the Trinity. 
This is one glaring point Jack makes showing his lack of substance and simply doesn't believe Scripture.

"L. Ray Smith rants and raves with sophomoric sarcasm against the doctrine of eternal punishment. He also insists evil was “created” by God."

Here is the Scripture;

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I don't think you will get anywhere in debating this with him, he is totally deceived, as was evident is his post.

Who is God the Father?" and he says Jesus is God but not the Father etc etc and I am like What?  I don't get it.

Here is a couple of email that I think will help you with this.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1766.0.html -------------------------

I think it would help people a lot if they could understand that "God" is not the personal first name of Jesus' Father.  Jesus' Father IS GOD. That is, He is the One and only Supreme Diety of the Universe. It is His power, and glory, and knowledge, and wildom, and love that makes Him God. But God has a Son. He came out of the Father just as any child comes out of his father (John 16:28; John 8:42; etc.).


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6484.0.html -------------------

 Dear Scott:
    Who said that "Jesus isn't equal with God?" Jesus is in the very IMAGE OF GOD:

    Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    I Cor. 4:4--"...the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God..."

    Heb 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of His person.."

    Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    Jesus, however, is NOT His Own Father, and will always be in subjection to His Father:

    1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him [His Father] that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

    God be with you,
    Ray

[2nd reply to Scott]

What I teach regarding Jesus being "God" and the Scriptures I quoted to you regarding that, is what I believe. It is the Scriptures that I believe, not "my stance." And it is not "I" who "are so avid about the Father being greater than Jesus." As you conceded, it was Jesus Himself Who made that statement.
Think of "God" as being a Family. Does not a "father" and a "son" constitute in any way what we understand to be a family relationship?  Christ's FATHER is greater than Christ Who is His SON.  Yet they are both THE ONE GOD.  Jesus also confirms this, doesn't He?  "I and My Father are ONE: (John 10:30).  In being ONE,  Jesus is "equal" with His Father.  "ALL power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth" (Matt. 28:18).  Ask yourself: "WHO is the possessor of "ALL power in heaven and in earth?"  WHO might that be? Satan? Some Angel? Or GOD?  And Who are we told is that "God" Who possesses "ALL power in heaven and in earth?"  JESUS.  Then JESUS MUST BE GOD.  I really don't know what else to say about this, Scott. I receive dozens and dozens and dozens of criticisms regarding this, and all I do is quote the Scriptures and state that I believe the Scriptures, and show why I believe the Scriptures. I don't know what else I can do to help you.

    God be with you,
    Ray

[kweli]

I learned a lot (of nonsense really) from Jack:

• Wisdom theology
• Wisdom template
• Wisdom background

So much wisdom. Yet he doesnt know Isa 45:7 is in his bible. But before I get too haughty, the bible says:

Romans 10: 1-3
1 Dear brothers and sisters, the longing of my heart and my prayer to God is that the Jewish people [that's the Pharisees, Orthodox Christians, etc] might be saved.
2 I know what enthusiasm they have for God, but it is misdirected zeal.
3 For they dont understand God's way of making people right with Himself. Instead, they are clinging to their own way of getting right with God by trying to keep the law. They wont go along with God's way. (NLT)

So maybe we ought to pray for Jack

[Dennis Vogel]

It is a great privilege to be persecuted for the truth.

Open e-Sword and search the NT for "persecuted." Here's the first one:

Mat 5:10  Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Don't be concerned about not being able to debate. Most likely not your calling. Time to move on.

Dennis

[EKnight]

Yeah, I agree Dennis.  I even said in my blog that I was not equipped to debate.  The only reason I even posted it was because I met nice people there and I wanted them to know what I had been doing and reading. 

One of the members there sent me an email about the number of the beast 666 being marked on peoples foreheads via a cellphone call through infra red rays.  I was like, yikes!  This is crazy!!!  But not everyone there is that overly zealous like that. 

[winner08]

I always thought that Jesus and God were of one mine and one spirit,but two different beings, God being the Father and Jesus being the Son and the holy spirit is the power that God uses when He's talking to us or teaching us something.As in sending the disciples the Holy
Spirit on the of Pentecost. After they received the Holy Spirit they knew everthing Jesus was teaching them, they understood. Is this not correct?? I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.

                                      Darren

[lilitalienboi16]

Jesus Christ and the Father are indeed one, but so are a man and a women when they cleave to each other, they become one.

That is the example Christ gives. Two people, one flesh. The Father and the Son, One God.

One must understand though that the Son is only equal with God because He was given His power, were as God the Father was never given anything. God the Father never had a beginning [from our knowledge based on the scriptures] and God the Father will never subject Himself to Himself or to Christ and the Father does not have a God!

Were as Christ was given all power from His Father, Christ came out of the Father, Christ was the beginning of the creation, Christ will subject Himself to the Father, Christ's reign will come to an end... Christ also has a GOD etc...

So for someone to say that Christ IS the Father is foolishness. For someone to say Christ is equal with God the Father than this is true. To say that Christ and the Father are one, this is true also. Is Christ THE FATHER? NO!!!

Make sence? I hope so, i tried

God bless,

Alex

[Sozo]

Hello Eileen,

The main thing I noticed about Jack is that he uses a lot of big words and wasted a lot of time typing to say absolutely nothing.  He provides no scriptural support for his accusations, but instead uses fancy terminology to try and confuse the average person.  Rather than keeping it simple, he tries to intimidate people into his same belief system.  He is no different than the rest of Christendom and their false teachings.  I hope you don't mind, but I commented on your blog to this affect.

Jason

[EKnight]

Yeah, I saw your comment and I was like 'who is this' then I saw you basically joined to be able to comment. The only thing is that those were not Jack's words.  They were an excerpt from commentary of a James Patrick Holding http://www.apologeticsindex.org/431-l-ray-smith-bibletruthscom.
But Jack never said that. I just happened to know that those were not Jack's words so I googled away and found the original text myself. 

[Robin]

You can always tell when someone is really frustrated.

They criticize spelling when all else fails.

[lilitalienboi16]

You can always tell when someone is really frustrated.

They criticize spelling when all else fails.

Heh, i get that alot I am a bad speller though, but i try ><

<3