What is the war between good and evil in revelations??

[winner08]

Hello everybody, it;s been awhile since I posted. I've been really caught up with unpacking. Anyways I have a question. Most likely y'all answered it several times already. Forgive me. Well since we do not have an immortal soul then this deception about God and Satan fighting over our souls to either bring them to heaven or hell when we die is all for not. In Revelation there's a part that talks about the end battle between good and evil. Jesus come down with His Saints to fight against all those who make war with Him(Jesus). Is this correct? What are they fighting over? This is a spiritual war? What are they fighting over? I know it is not souls. We are all saved at the end. In God's fire we are purged of our carnality. I guess what I'm trying to ask in a nutshell is what is this fight between good and evil at the end times? Sorry this is such a dumb question that's been answered a hundred times.


                                              Thanks Darren

[kweli]

Hello Darren

I'm sure I dont know any more about this than you do. But here's how I try to understand spiritual principles in the physical world. I could be wrong but I hope I'm not deceiving you. Please also bear in mind that the whole of Revelations is a symbol, or rather symbols are used

The more we learn the truths of God, I believe the more we realize how much we need to repent. Let's take lust as an example. We both know about this weakness and there must have been plenty times when we justified it. But there always comes a time when we cannot look away but face the reality of the 'problem'. We get to a place I like to call 'The Crossroad'. It's either we stop lusting, or we lust willingly. It's not easy to just stop lusting after women, but stopping is part of being renewed. And we genuinely want to be renewed. So there's a war between good and evil going on during the time when His Judgements are upon the House of God. In the physical, you somehow know about this war going on as you 'battle' with the 'problem'. And if you make it, you may be part of the saints who follow Jesus in the war, or you will be part of the Lake of Fire.

Revelation 12

9 And the great dragon was cast out -- that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan, who deceiveth the whole world. He was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in Heaven, "Now have come salvation and strength, and the Kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ; for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony , and they loved not their lives unto the death.[intersting how they overcame]
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea! For the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

At this point, the devil is right there in the world, with the false prophet, the beast/dragon etc. With the short time he has, he does what he does best. Then later...

Revelation 19

11 And I saw Heaven opened, and behold, a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written that no man knew, but He Himself.
13 And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood, and His name is called, The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in Heaven, clothed in fine linen white and clean, followed Him upon white horses.
15 And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword with which He shall smite the nations, and He shall rule them with a rod of iron; and He treadeth the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse, and against His army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who wrought miracles in his presence, by which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire, burning with brimstone.

I didnt see where the war here would be like war as we know it. It was Jesus coming with the saints to win. This could be when the world is learning righteousness (see verse 11). I dont fully understand what is going on here but I know a little about the war. Verses 19 and 20 say all there will be about the war.  Later on, more happens which I'm not sure I even want to pretend I have a clue about.  All I can say for now about the war is, He comes to judge and to make war (verse 11). This is now when the 'problem' must go away fully, since it didnt go away at first.

I hope I dont sound like a heretic. Forgive me if I've misrepresented anything in any instance.

All Glory to Him

PS: It's definitely a symbol

[OBrenda]

Wow...this was an "Ah-hah" moment for me Rodger!

The book of Revelation not a revelation, it is THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST! The word "revelation" means to unveil, uncover or take the cover off, thus the reader is granted by grace of God the unveiling of Jesus Christ. Revealing to the reader, who and what Jesus Christ is, in all of His glory, unveils Him in all of His fullness. Written in the symbology of the Old Testament it is indeed signified.

So the battle of "Armageddon" that everyone is reading the newspapers for evidence for will not take place in the physical world??

[Falconn003]

I tried to clearify my post above a bit more.

Hope i did not overkill it

Peace
Rodger

[winner08]

Sorry I just don't get it. Rev.19:11-20. What does this mean? It's not a physical war? Jesus Christ does not come down from heaven with His saints to fight against the nations who are against Him?? OK this is not to be a physical war. It's a spiritual war. A war against what? or for what? Now here's another question. When Satan is released for a short time after the 1000 yr. rule of Christ what is he doing? is he deceiving people? For what reason? I know this sounds crazy but what is Satan's purpose for deceiving people? We know it is not for souls, because we don't have immortal souls, so what good are souls to Satan. Also at the end, Jesus Christ will make sure ALL of human kind will be saved. The reason I'm asking these question is because a friend of mine ask these questions of me and I couldn't ansewer her. I said The Lord is not ready to give me this knowledge. So I don't know. Anyways I guess all these questions can be summed up in one. What is Satan's purpose for deceiving people. What does He get out of this. don't Satan know ALL of human kind will be saved at the end because ALL of God's desires will be done.

                                     Thanks everybody,
                                         Darren

                                         

[mharrell08]

Sorry I just don't get it. Rev.19:11-20. What does this mean? It's not a physical war? Jesus Christ does not come down from heaven with His saints to fight against the nations who are against Him?? OK this is not to be a physical war. It's a spiritual war. A war against what? or for what? Now here's another question. When Satan is released for a short time after the 1000 yr. rule of Christ what is he doing? is he deceiving people? For what reason? I know this sounds crazy but what is Satan's purpose for deceiving people? We know it is not for souls, because we don't have immortal souls, so what good are souls to Satan. Also at the end, Jesus Christ will make sure ALL of human kind will be saved. The reason I'm asking these question is because a friend of mine ask these questions of me and I couldn't ansewer her. I said The Lord is not ready to give me this knowledge. So I don't know. Anyways I guess all these questions can be summed up in one. What is Satan's purpose for deceiving people. What does He get out of this. don't Satan know ALL of human kind will be saved at the end because ALL of God's desires will be done.

                                     Thanks everybody,
                                         Darren

                                         

Hello Darren,

I hope you are not offended by this, but you probably want to re-read Ray's entire Lake of Fire series. I know that does not seem to be the direct answer to your questions, but in reality it is. Many times there is no quick answer to the deeper aspects of His Word. The comments Rodger gave you were very good so I think you may want to do some more studying. From your questions, you seem to be missing 2 key elements regarding Revelation:

(1)  Revelation is a book of SYMBOLS or SYMBOLISM ['...signified it by his angel unto his servant John' Rev. 1:1]

(2)  Revelation is the Revelaton of Jesus Christ ['...which is, and which was, and which is to come...' Rev. 1:8]


So now put these 2 truths together: The book of Revelation is a book of symbols that reveal which is, which was, and which is to come. All the events in Revelation happen in the past, the present, & the future. This is one of the first aspects of Ray's teaching in the Lake of Fire (LOF) series.

If you don't know the answer to a person's question, direct them to the bible-truths website. What's the harm? If you are not a teacher, introduce them to the one you know.

One last note, Ray taught in the Feb 2008 bible study about Fundamental Truths. One point was that if you knew a couple of verses, hold on to them. And then put the onus on others to prove to you scripturally some of their false, pagan beliefs. They won't be able to and it will end any and all arguments concerning the scriptures.

Hope this helps,

Marques

P.S.  I posted before I saw Rodger's last comment in case anything overlaps.

[OBrenda]

Hi Darren,
I appreciate your questions because they are opening doors of light into areas where I am still in the Dark.
Even though I understood Ray's teaching in the LOF series that teaches that Rev is about Symbols.  And that
these are spiritual truths.  I was still holding on to physical wars, 2 witness, nations, and marks that people will
actually be forced to receive on their hands or head.  I don't think God doesn't want you to know the answer, but we are learning as the scriptures say.....Line upon Line.....Precept upon Precept.

Actually we are having to relearn allot of things.  Rebuilding of our foundation so to speak.  I see you and another person here Eileen, running in ahead of me with swords (asking important questions) clearing out cobwebs and other crap out of the way for others like me.  You may not be a teacher...at least not right now, but you are a warrior for the truth and understanding.  And so I'm blessed reading your comments and concerns.

Thanks to everyone of the light bearers, who take their time and share the light with us.

[winner08]

WOW! OBrenda; light bearer, warrior for the truth, OK. Thanks. This is my question, short and sweet. We will ALL be saved at the end.What is Satan's purpose for deceiving us at this time? I mean all his deceiving is for not, at the end anyways. For everything Satan is doing to deceive us, God will set right. Witch leads me back to my question. What is Satan's purpose for deceiving us??


                                                 Thanks  Darren

[Robin]

Mark 4
10When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that,
   " 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
      and ever hearing but never understanding;
   otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'

Mark 4:
14The farmer sows the word. 15Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them.

Romans 11:6-8
6And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

7What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, 8as it is written:
   "God gave them a spirit of stupor,
      eyes so that they could not see
      and ears so that they could not hear,
   to this very day."

Romans 11
32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

[kweli]

Thanks a lot for elaborating Roger. I think I now understand clearer what the Scriptures have to say.

Darren, I dont know if there's anyone who can tell you any more than you are told here for you to get the picture.

"What is Satan's purpose for deceiving us??"?

I may have an answer, if M.G.'s is not enough...so we can partake of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, so that we can be eligible to partake of the tree of life, all of which is symbolic. Roger was right the first time when he said the book has to speak to you, otherwise it is not meant for you.

All Glory to Him

Oh Darren, forgive me if im reading too much into this but, is that you? ... http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7414.0.html

[Falconn003]

By all means it is not something drastic or damable nor bad, in any other form, to not know the Word of God now, BUT you will soon enough, in accords with the will of our Father.

I would think it a blessing, to know God has EACH of us on an distinct individual path with him in life, and sees fit when we should know any such thigs of the Spirit. 

This is  good and gracious to understand all in due time:)

peace
Rodger

[winner08]

Thanks all, I found the ansewers to my questions. frist of all I do understand that the book of revelations is The Revelations of Christ, about Christ. Past present and future. Second, I understand that the book of revelation's are a book of symbols. Third I understand it is about spiritual matters and not physcial. Now in saying that, all I wanted to know was what is the reasons behind Satan's deceptions. I did not understand, at the end times we all will be saved through Christ. What is Satan's purpose for deceiving us. PLEASE do not ansewer these questions. I have already got my ansewers through the Bible and lots of meditation on this subject. Thanks for all the post. Let's let this one go.

                                               Darren

[Roy Monis]

Wow what amazing teachers there are here, reading everyones comments is like splashing water on my face!

The beast within is our Carnial/Sinful Human Nature.  Understanding this I want to share and ask some guidance with an experience I had several months ago. It is hard to explain but I had this creepy awareness that there was something (person) inside me, separating itself from me.  It happened a few times.  Is it possible that this was the beast within me or a demon, or should I get on some serious medication?

I'm a little nervous sharing this, hope you won't think I'm a loon.Thanks...

Hi! Brenda

This feeling you got is very interesting. Would I be imposing on your privacy if I asked you when you had that creepy feeling as you call it. Was it before you became aware of the True Gospel Of Jesus Christ, that is to say, before you were aware of the Babylonian hoax of everlasting punishment or hell as they call it, or after you became aware of it.

You see I had a very similar experience and would like to see if your experience coincides with mine.

Because if it does I believe it answers what I, at the moment, can only assume it to be.



God bless you sister in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     
   

[OBrenda]

Hi Roy UK,

It was after I had found Rays site.  I cried with Joy to learn about universal salvation, but I had not at the time read everything on the site.  It happened a few times.  It felt like a separate person inside me and it was a evil/creepy personality.  I could feel and sense it's emotions and at the same time sense my own.  Bizarre!!!I can't be sure if I was just aware of it, or it was separating from me.  I could also sense it wanted out!

After this happened I started hearing....(I Hope it was from God):....to get Ready, something about 5 years,  and to prepare myself for a painful loss.

I have continued to devour all of the teachings here until my head hurts! Can't wait to hear your thoughts...

Thanks...

[winner08]

Thanks Rodger, I stand corrected. Yes, this site is after all, Bible-Truths.

                                                    Darren

[Falconn003]

Thanks Rodger, I stand corrected. Yes, this site is after all, Bible-Truths.

                                                    Darren

Thanks be to God always my brother, and we all stand corrected in Fellowship.
Your questions brought up some unfinnished studying, i have forgotten about and greatly appreciate you reminding/bringing it too my attention again

Peace
Rodger

[Falconn003]

kweli

I must thank you for your kind words, late in coming i do appologize.

Rodger

[Roy Monis]

Hi Roy UK,

It was after I had found Rays site.  I cried with Joy to learn about universal salvation, but I had not at the time read everything on the site.  It happened a few times.  It felt like a separate person inside me and it was a evil/creepy personality.  I could feel and sense it's emotions and at the same time sense my own.  Bizarre!!!I can't be sure if I was just aware of it, or it was separating from me.  I could also sense it wanted out!

After this happened I started hearing....(I Hope it was from God):....to get Ready, something about 5 years,  and to prepare myself for a painful loss.

I have continued to devour all of the teachings here until my head hurts! Can't wait to hear your thoughts...

Thanks...

Hi! Brenda

Are you ready for this? Yes I was searching the various sites after I decided to leave the established Church I was in. I read a lot of Ellen Gould White's material and had a feel at a site called "SDR" but was soon cast out of the synagogue when I began questioning some of their beliefs. Then I went to "The World's Last Chance" and the sensationalism in their teaching did not ring true and their interpretation of the Scriptures was literal when what I read clearly stated that it was signified. This prevented me from following their teaching and I continued to browse. Then finally I just happened to click on bible-truths and the first article I read, there it was "signified", after that I immediately downloaded virtually all of Ray's material, though there is plenty to still there to be downloaded.

This is the history but now to the point in question. It was, as in your case, after I started to download and study Ray's material that that agitation started, but regardless I continued and finally a sort of peace returned and a greater joy in what I was doing, difficult to explain. That one word "signified" seemed to tell me this is the truth and the only Person who could have told me that was the Spirit of God.   

This explained the conflict within, I'm sure it was the Spirit versus Satan (Babylon). The feeling of peace and joy which followed confirmed that it was none other than the Lord Himself. "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful." (Jn.14:26,27).

I did not receive any message regarding preparing myself for a painful loss. But there again that could have been because of the fact that I was being rewarded at that very time by having my dear beloved wife taken  of me after 57 years of a blissfully happy marriage. I pray that your loss is not going to be so severe.

Having satisfied my curiosity and answered your question, I must now stop as it begins to get painful.



God bless you sister in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     


.

[OBrenda]

Thanks Rodger...

I read your suggestion on Ray's teaching.  I am grateful to have been given this awareness of this "spiritual creature".  It's humbling to realize how blind we are to all the unseen.  I have to say I was a little concerned to be that creepy entity or "yoked" with it.  Thank you very much for the insight....

Roy,

I can't tell you how much it helps to know I am not so unique in this.  I was trying to think of a way to explain the feeling I sensed in the other being/creature.  I was tempted to say angry but, agitated is exactly what it was.  As I have pushed on I also have peace and joy in these truths.  I can't imagine your pain and loss, I have not experienced it yet.  But you got me choked up reading your sweet words about it.
Sending You Warm & Gentle hugs!!

[Falconn003]

Thanks Rodger...

I read your suggestion on Ray's teaching.  I am grateful to have been given this awareness of this "spiritual creature".  It's humbling to realize how blind we are to all the unseen.  I have to say I was a little concerned to be that creepy entity or "yoked" with it.  Thank you very much for the insight....

You are welcome, we all have a sense a battle, between flesh and the Spirit within us here. And take many forms to describe what feelings it gives us. Not to worry you are with in like minded fellowship.

Peace and Triumph on your Endurance
Rodger