> General Discussions
Are you the elect?
Martinez:
God only knows.
Kat:
Hi Darren,
The way I see this is we can know if we are having our eyes opened to these truths and that Christ is working within us. If His spirit is indwelling we most certainly can have hope of being one of the chosen/Elect.
John 14:19 "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also.
v. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
v. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
But the thing is to be of the chosen/Elect you must remain faithful and endure to the end. As with the parable of the sower (Matt 13), look how many receive this truth only for one reason or another to fall away. Those that fall away were never destined to be one of the Elect, because Christ will not lose any that are His.
John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
v. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
Here are excerpts from the transcript 'CAN WE LOSE GOD’S SPIRIT AND EONIAN LIFE?'
This Bible study talks alot about having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7047.0.html -----
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
See you can not really differentiate between those two. Spirit is life, spirit doesn’t die. Flesh dies. If you have life in you, you have God’s Spirit. If you have God’s Spirit in you, you have life. It doesn’t mean that you’re not going to physically die, but at least while you’re living you have some other kind of life in you. If you don’t have that life in you, then you’re no different than an infidel that has no religion, no faith and maybe has not even any morality as to why he should live above any other citizens or criminals or whatever.
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If you just read all the words and be careful for those little words ‘if’ or ‘because’ and things like that. You’ll have all this and this and this and then Paul will say BECAUSE, you did this or you‘re doing that. You’ve got to read the words.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled (KJV)
Col 1:21 And you, being once estranged and enemies in comprehension, by wicked acts, yet now He reconcilES [It’s a process] (Concordant)
Col 1:22 In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and unblamable and unreprovable in His sight:
So notice that verse ends with a colon, not a period. Here’s the answer to ALL of these verses, it’s found in the very next verse. The problem is the reader stops with verse 22. He quotes verse 21 and then verse 22 and then he says there it is, there is this truth. Now let’s read the next verse 23. Because you’ve been reconciled and you will be presented unblamable and all that and verse 23...
Col 1:23 IF you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Is that too hard to understand? Well lets ask ourselves the question, what do you suppose would happen if we don’t continue? Well this reader says it does not matter, we have it. IT MATTERS. “If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” See that’s how you have it, “IF you continue.” I like how Rotherham says it, I checked the Greek and it does kind of have that connotation, he says;
Col 1:23 If, at least, ye are abiding still in the faith…
“If, at least” you’ve got to be doing that, okay. Then you will have all of these things. Again the big ‘if.’
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
v. 27 But some fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation…
So you mean you can receive the truth and you can be locked into all these Scriptures, like this reader says, but then you can do something wrong? Yes, you can.
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Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life…
Now here is the point I want to make, spirit is life and life is spirit. Now back to verse 15.
Can we lose out… well we read the Scripture that if you sin willfully - willingly there is no more sacrifice for you. Now look at this verse, many people probably never really saw it before.
1 John 3:15 Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal (eonian or age lasting) life abiding (the Greek is “staying or “REMAINING”) in him.
So the Greek is staying or remaining. Now if you just read that without all the background that I’m giving you, then you get the feeling that, well he won't be given God’s abiding life. No, he already has it. The only way something cannot stay in you or not remain in you, is if it’s in you. Do you follow that? It’s in you.
He’s not talking to Barbarians here or infidels, he’s talking to the congregation who have the spirit of God. But he says if you hate your brother the spirit of God will no longer stay with you, it will no longer be in you. If the Spirit of God is not in you, you are no longer His. Then you are going to the judgment. That’s just how simple that is. All through these Scriptures if you read carefully, maybe it doesn’t have it just like this, but this is just a poor translation. But if you read Concordant and Rotherham and all, they will tell you to ‘stay’ - ‘remain.’ It means to remain, but it won’t remain. You see it’s there, but it’s coming out.
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I guess what it comes down to is we can be in the race and have hope of being of the Elect, but the only way we will know for sure is to be in the resurrection :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Stevernator:
I don't know. Not in my current condition anyway, I still need to overcome some things. I hope so. It is really humbling because I have not really been persecuted and back in the day so many of the early disciples were beaten and martyred. Although such persecution is not as likely to happen in modern western society I suppose but we can still be persecuted in other ways. Also I have not been through too many trials but I am still young. Only God knows for sure.
2 peter 1
4through which to us the most great and precious promises have been given, that through these ye may become partakers of a divine nature, having escaped from the corruption in the world in desires.
5And this same also -- all diligence having brought in besides, superadd in your faith the worthiness, and in the worthiness the knowledge,
6and in the knowledge the temperance, and in the temperance the endurance, and in the endurance the piety,
7and in the piety the brotherly kindness, and in the brotherly kindness the love;
8for these things being to you and abounding, do make [you] neither inert nor unfruitful in regard to the acknowledging of our Lord Jesus Christ,
9for he with whom these things are not present is blind, dim-sighted, having become forgetful of the cleansing of his old sins;
10wherefore, the rather, brethren, be diligent to make stedfast your calling and choice, for these things doing, ye may never stumble,
11for so, richly shall be superadded to you the entrance into the age-during reign of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
jerreye:
--- Quote ---Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
v. 27 But some fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation…
--- End quote ---
This verse to me is saying as long as you are in a state of "willfull sin", there remains no more sacrifice FOR these sins, since you no longer care and are WILLFULLY sinning. I don't believe that this means that one cannot "come to himself" and to see their face in the mud and RETURN to God. This verse isn't talking of a single sin in time, but an attitude of willfully sinning against God with a hardened heart.
If you continue in willful sin (a life style), then all that is left for you is a fearful EXPECTATION of judgment, based on your unwillingness to STOP sinning.
I know that Ray teaches that there IS no unpardonable sin and that there is only ONE SIN that will not be forgiven in this age or the next age and that sin is to blaspheme the holy spirit, by contributing the works of God to the works of the devil.
God says IF we confess our sins, He will forgive us our sins. However, if a man in WILLFULLY sinning, will he ever have the heart to confess his sins to God? Most likely not!
I believe there is always hope in you if you don't FAINT (give up) and WILFULLY walk away from the hope of the Gospel that you have heard.
David:
To answer the question, thats for God to decide.
I live by faith and live in hope.
I think that if one thinks they are, then the chances are they are not.
You should listen to Ray's talk on "How hard is it to get saved". I think its also on video google to watch. Being in the 1st ressurection, meeting the criteria required is probably the hardest thing any human can achieve.
I think its fair to say that because Ray was confined to time when he did this talk, he could have gone on a lot longer about the requirements for Gods elect. Its huge.
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