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Delusion

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Laren:
Reading Romans 1, and it seems these verses refer to alll men.   It seems that being turned over to our own deceitful heart only occurs after we have heard the truth and rejected it.  

Rom 1:18  for revealed is the wrath of God from heaven upon all impiety and unrighteousness of men, holding down the truth in unrighteousness.


Rom 1:19  Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest it to them,

Rom 1:20  for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead--to their being inexcusable;

Rom 1:21  because, having known God they did not glorify Him as God, nor gave thanks, but were made vain in their reasonings, and their unintelligent heart was darkened,

Rom 1:24  Wherefore also God did give them up, in the desires of their hearts, to uncleanness, to dishonour their bodies among themselves;

Rom 1:25  who did change the truth of God into a falsehood, and did honour and serve the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed to the ages. Amen.

Rom 1:26  Because of this did God give them up to dishonourable affections, for even their females did change the natural use into that against nature;

Rom 1:28  And, according as they did not approve of having God in knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mind, to do the things not seemly;

Rom 2:1  Therefore, thou art inexcusable, O man--every one who is judging--for in that in which thou dost judge the other, thyself thou dost condemn, for the same things thou dost practise who art judging,


Seems God didn't harden our hearts till after we rejected the truth.  

The result of this is:

Rom 3:10  according as it hath been written--`There is none righteous, not even one;

Rom 3:11  There is none who is understanding, there is none who is seeking after God.

Rom 3:12  All did go out of the way, together they became unprofitable, there is none doing good, there is not even one.


So it seems to me, that all of us at one time (before being regenerated) had an opportunity to accept the truth, we all turned away from it, therefore God hardened our hearts, and therefore none who understand, noe seeking God.

Now if my understanding of this is true, when was this time we had the truth, but yet rejected it?

I've heard some say this isn't talking to us, that Paul was talking to the Jews who had accepted the gospel, then were going back under law, as in Galatians also.  I don't know if i buy this, because the verses in Romans 3 sure seem to support all men.  any thots on this??


Seems also to relate to this:  

2Th 2:10  and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved,

2Th 2:11  and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie,


And also here:

Heb 6:4  for it is impossible for those once enlightened, having tasted also of the heavenly gift, and partakers having became of the Holy Spirit,

Heb 6:5  and did taste the good saying of God, the powers also of the coming age,

Heb 6:6  and having fallen away, again to renew them to reformation, having crucified again to themselves the Son of God, and exposed to public shame.



Now, is there any scripture that states God has given man delusion, or turned man over to a deceitful heart without having knowledge first, and rejecting it????  


Just find these scriptures interesting, that God has given us all the truth at one time, yet we rejected it, so therefore he hardened our hearts.  

Am i looking at these wrong???  or not???


thanks.  Laren

Laren:
Also wondering if there is a relationship to this verse

Rom 7:9  And I was alive apart from law once, and the command having come, the sin revived, and I died;


and maybe these

Jam 1:14  and each one is tempted, by his own desires being led away and enticed,  (rejecting the truth??)

Jam 1:15  afterward the desire having conceived, doth give birth to sin, and the sin having been perfected, doth bring forth death.





Jam 1:16  Be not led astray, my brethren beloved;

orion77:
Laren, interesting post.  I can only speak from experience.  Years ago when God started working in my life, He gave me some great spiritual experiences, of which I have never heard of before, for I did not know His word at all.  Nonetheless, it happened and had to tell somebody.  Went to scores of churches, guess what, nobody wanted to listen.  Fact is, they kicked me out of several, some said I was possessed by a devil.  Needless to say this brought about much persecution, rumors and false accusations.  This was my first love and I fell away, because my house was built upon a sandy foundation, not properly founded upon the word of God and the Rock.  I must confess, before I fell away, God was very close.  The things He showed me are far beyond words, and I have learned to keep these between Him and me.  To be truthful, I miss that time.  Now it is by the grace of God and His mercy, and the truth in His Son, that I even exist.  Without Him I can do nothing, this was learned not only by reading the scripture, but through life experiences, which is where the truth is.


Rom 2:1
Wherefore, defenseless are you, O humanman! everyone *who is judging, for in what you are judging *differentanother, you are condemning yourself, for you *who are judging are committing the same things.

Rom 2:2
Now we are oaware that the judgment of *God is according to truth onagainst *those who are committing *such things.

Rom 2:3
Yet are you reckoning~ on this, O humanman, *who art judging *those committing *such things, and art doing the same, that you'  will be escaping~ the judgment of *God?

Rom 2:4
Or are you despising the riches of His *kindness and *forbearance and *patience, being ignorant that the kindness of *God is leading you intoto repentance?



Truth is, my worst sins were committed after the baptism of the Holy Spirit.  Now that He is in His proper place, if you know what I mean, things are much better.  I thank His great name, character, mercy, and forgiving nature more than you can know.  

But, you know, all these things have caused a greater understanding of His word.  I see myself in the Israelites of the OT.  I am no different than they are.  Still amazing how He is creating us in His image.  Incredible.

God bless,

Gary

lilitalienboi16:
Well, one thing to remember is that, EVERYTHING IS OF GOD.

No matter what happens ITS HIM DOING IT. God controles everything. So if the person makes the choice to reject God, has not God controle of it? So is it not God allowing this person to reject Him? Therfore is it not also of God this delusion that causes them not to believe?

God says Hes the reason people believe a lie.

“And then shall that Wicked [‘Lawless One’—the beast within all of us] be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: Even him whose coming is after the working of Satan [It is not Satan, but is ‘after the 0working of Satan] with all power and signs and lying wanders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God [yes, God Himself] shall send them strong dilusion, that they should believe a lie [Gk: ‘the lie’]…� (II Thes. 2:9-11).

So i believe there is our answer... GOd does make people believe Lies. Remember Jesus words "You have not chosen me, I HAVE CHOSEN YOU"

Laren:

--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 ---Well, one thing to remember is that, EVERYTHING IS OF GOD.

No matter what happens ITS HIM DOING IT. God controles everything. So if the person makes the choice to reject God, has not God controle of it? So is it not God allowing this person to reject Him? Therfore is it not also of God this delusion that causes them not to believe?

God says Hes the reason people believe a lie.

“And then shall that Wicked [‘Lawless One’—the beast within all of us] be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: Even him whose coming is after the working of Satan [It is not Satan, but is ‘after the 0working of Satan] with all power and signs and lying wanders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God [yes, God Himself] shall send them strong dilusion, that they should believe a lie [Gk: ‘the lie’]…� (II Thes. 2:9-11).

So i believe there is our answer... GOd does make people believe Lies. Remember Jesus words "You have not chosen me, I HAVE CHOSEN YOU"
--- End quote ---


thanks for the reply, and I too agree the delusion is from God.  I just find it interesting the order of things, having known the truth first, known God first, choosing not to accept the truth, so then delusion from God.  

Rom 1:21 because, having known God they did not glorify Him as God, nor gave thanks, but were made vain in their reasonings, and their unintelligent heart was darkened,

Rom 1:24 Wherefore also God did give them up, in the desires of their hearts, to uncleanness, to dishonour their bodies among themselves;

Rom 1:28 And, according as they did not approve of having God in knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mind, to do the things not seemly;

2Th 2:10 ... because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved,

2Th 2:11 and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie,


Is sure appears that the verses are saying we all know the truth, even if it is only through creation, and we all choose to reject it, so then because of that God sends strong delsion.  

I always thought it to be the other way around.  God sends strong delusion first, so that many won't believe the truth after they hear it.  Part of his plan, many called and few chosen; but sure seems these versed say different.  

Does anyone else see this in these verses??

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