bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Near Death Experiences  (Read 24516 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

UncleBeau

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2008, 02:26:02 PM »

Darren,
Showing someone a hell that does not exist is not a Godly, rather a Satanic thing to do.  It would teach them nothing of value.

I don't want to get in a debate here, but when you say that nothing of value can be learned from Satan aren't you writing off the entire Book of Job. Since God Himself sends strong delusion while at the same time having a perfect plan to bring all humanity into His image, then there must be a reason and a value to deception. The existence of hell is certainly a strong delusion -- a very, very, very strong delusion.

We must eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil -- that means getting deceived, doing the wrong thing, and learning some valuable lessons from God's tool known as Satan. God created Satan and called all of His creation "very good" so I wouldn't just write off the lessons we learn from Satan as being of no value.

Carol

Lessons we learn from Satan? Sorry, but Satan is not our teacher. Do you really think Job learned something from Satan? Did Job say, "Satan givith and Satan taketh away?" Jesus Christ told us to follow Him, that means to think like he thinks, do what he does, etc... Did HE learn anything from Satan?! Seriously... To say that deception is valuable in that way is putting the wrong value on it. We are to carefully weigh and measure everything we're given. Deception is the contrast to truth! Without it, we can't know truth. There's no such thing as valuable deception.
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2008, 03:03:36 PM »

Hi Beau,

Although I agree that seeking wisdom or knowledge directly from Satan would be more than counter productive God uses him for His own purposes, especially in keeping us humble and dependant on Him.

Remember Job and Paul, Paul's words;

2Co 12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Peace,

Joe
Logged

Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2008, 03:34:42 PM »

Darren,
Showing someone a hell that does not exist is not a Godly, rather a Satanic thing to do.  It would teach them nothing of value.

I don't want to get in a debate here, but when you say that nothing of value can be learned from Satan aren't you writing off the entire Book of Job. Since God Himself sends strong delusion while at the same time having a perfect plan to bring all humanity into His image, then there must be a reason and a value to deception. The existence of hell is certainly a strong delusion -- a very, very, very strong delusion.

We must eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil -- that means getting deceived, doing the wrong thing, and learning some valuable lessons from God's tool known as Satan. God created Satan and called all of His creation "very good" so I wouldn't just write off the lessons we learn from Satan as being of no value.

Carol

Lessons we learn from Satan? Sorry, but Satan is not our teacher. Do you really think Job learned something from Satan? Did Job say, "Satan givith and Satan taketh away?" Jesus Christ told us to follow Him, that means to think like he thinks, do what he does, etc... Did HE learn anything from Satan?! Seriously... To say that deception is valuable in that way is putting the wrong value on it. We are to carefully weigh and measure everything we're given. Deception is the contrast to truth! Without it, we can't know truth. There's no such thing as valuable deception.


Hi! Beau

Somewhere down the line I seem to remember a very true saying, not Scriptural, that goes something likethis:
"Once bit, twice shy." So I think we can learn from Satan. We can learn to be wide awake and not fall for his evil deception ever again. Or is my thinking contrary to the truth?

No offense intended, just an opinion.

God bless you. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK
   
Logged

rk12201960

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2008, 04:07:45 PM »

HI all,
If we think satan isn't of value then we sit oh Gods throne.

As Carol said God saw that is was "very good."
There are so many things that I don't understand why God does things as He does, but thats mountains I have to overcome.
Satan is here for a reason and God saw that it was very good.
Have faith. God does not lie.

Wisdom and peace to all.

Randy
Logged

carol v

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2008, 11:37:31 AM »


Deception is the contrast to truth! Without it, we can't know truth. There's no such thing as valuable deception.
 
Uncle Beau -- do you not see how you have contradicted yourself and proved my point while trying to argue against it. Without evil we cannot know good. Without sad we cannot know happy. And yes, as you just said, without deception we cannot know truth. These are God's methods so they are MOST valuable. And Satan is God's tool that God created so to question the value of Satan is to question God Himself.

Carol
« Last Edit: May 26, 2008, 11:43:25 AM by carol v »
Logged

musicman

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2008, 10:25:43 PM »

Darren,
Showing someone a hell that does not exist is not a Godly, rather a Satanic thing to do.  It would teach them nothing of value.

I don't want to get in a debate here, but when you say that nothing of value can be learned from Satan aren't you writing off the entire Book of Job. Since God Himself sends strong delusion while at the same time having a perfect plan to bring all humanity into His image, then there must be a reason and a value to deception. The existence of hell is certainly a strong delusion -- a very, very, very strong delusion.

We must eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil -- that means getting deceived, doing the wrong thing, and learning some valuable lessons from God's tool known as Satan. God created Satan and called all of His creation "very good" so I wouldn't just write off the lessons we learn from Satan as being of no value.

Carol

I believe my quote of Darren was in response to the notion that perhaps God shows people glimpses of hell to frighten them and bring them to repentance.  If God is calling one to true repentance, He is not going to show him/her a hell that doesn't exist.  Rather, in such cases, the sinner would be called to the truths of God and not delusions. 
Logged

Heidi

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2008, 05:07:37 AM »

 ;D Allow me to jump on board...what a facinating bit of debating going on.
I do not discredit anyone that claim they have had a near death experience.  Their experience was very real to them, and it has changed their lives profoundly.  But that is all it is...their experience.  As for me...I believe the bible, there is no hell and when we are dead, WE ARE DEAD....until...... ::)
Logged

Akira329

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 718
  • "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2008, 11:30:06 PM »

These is a pretty weird topic ???
The only thing I know you can learn from Satan is how to lie and deceive!
At the end of the day when you finally come to know the truth, who do you thank for your new found knowledge and wisdom?
Do we thank God for Satan's work in our lives???
2Co 12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8  For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9  And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10  Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.


Is this what Paul did here???

As for NEAR death experiences, what could any one experience prove about life AFTER death.
I've had lucid dreams and sleep paralysis all of which to me can explain the majority of these experiences but
I agree with Ray, I would love to hear someones story after having been dead, that would be awesome!!

Antaiwan
Logged
"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

carol v

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2008, 02:56:20 PM »

Just to clear things up since this is causing confusion on this thread and in pm's with people wanting to teach me the error of my ways...

I did not say that we are to worship Satan, be thankful to Satan, seek out Satan, love Satan, prize Satan, consider Satan as equal to Christ, etc. etc. etc.

I simply believe that God created Satan as a tool and that God's creation and God's methods have value. Having value does not mean that I long for it, love it, seek it out, want it, prize it above Christ.

I simply place value on all God's methods and tools which HE uses to bring us into His image. To you it may be a "necessary" tool but to me it is a "valuable" tool -- I think it's the semantics of the words.

If you've ever heard the phrase "a valuable lesson" than that is what I value about Satan -- he is a tool of God that has been used to give me many valuable lessons. God has had to hit me over the head with His hammer many many times and without those hits I would not be where I am today. Without that hammer I would not have learned the damage of lies, the pain of betrayal, the hurt of viscious gossip, the ... well, surely you can see my meaning. These lessons have value. Tools with value can be called valuable. It does not mean they are diamonds, rubies, crude oil or above Christ.

We thank God because Satan is just God's hammer and that is ALL I ever said from the beginning of this whole thing. I value all of God's methods to bring us all into His image. Okay? Okay. If you don't like the word "value" then please pick another.

I sincerely apologize for any confusion and comments I've made in this thread or in pm's in response to this thread. It's just my opinion of God's sovereignty, methods and scripture. Things can quickly get out of hand in this forum and again, I apologize for any misunderstandings.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 04:35:55 PM by carol v »
Logged

KristaD

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2008, 03:17:55 PM »

I understood you perfectly carol and very much agree ;). Without darkness we can't know light. Satan is a perfect way to show us just how good God is and for that he is quite valuable. He was made by God for that purpose and nothing God did/made is wasted or can be done without :). That's very different than worshipping or even thanking satan, I get it, you thank God for what He shows you thru satan.
Logged

mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2008, 03:44:35 PM »

Just to clear things up since this is causing confusion on this thread and in pm's with people wanting to teach me the error of my ways...

I did not say that we are to worship Satan, be thankful to Satan, seek out Satan, love Satan, prize Satan, consider Satan as equal to Christ, etc. etc. etc.

I simply believe that God created Satan as a tool and that God's creation and God's methods have value. Having value does not mean that I long for it, love it, seek it out, want it, prize it above Christ.

I simply place value on all God's methods and tools which HE uses to bring us into His image. To you it may be a "necessary" tool but to me it is a "valuable" tool -- I think it's the symantics of the words.

If you've ever heard the phrase "a valuable lesson" than that is what I value about Satan -- he is a tool of God that has been used to give me many valuable lessons. God has had to hit me over the head with His hammer many many times and without those hits I would not be where I am today. Without that hammer I would not have learned the damage of lies, the pain of betrayal, the hurt of viscious gossip, the ... well, surely you can see my meaning. These lessons have value. Tools with value can be called valuable. It does not mean they are diamonds, rubies, crude oil or above Christ.

We thank God because Satan is just God's hammer and that is ALL I ever said from the beginning of this whole thing. I value all of God's methods to bring us all into His image. Okay? Okay. If you don't like the word "value" then please pick another.

I sincerely apologize for any confusion and comments I've made in this thread or in pm's in response to this thread. It's just my opinion of God's sovereignty, methods and scripture. Things can quickly get out of hand in this forum and again, I apologize for any misunderstandings.

I understand your point as well Carol...like you said, there may have been some confusion with the others because of the use of the word 'valuable'. Thank you for the further explanation


Marques
Logged

cjwood

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2095
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2008, 02:09:01 AM »

Does anyone have any thoughts on near death experiences? I know this is a very generalized question, but I'm just wondering if anyone has done any research on this specifically.  Has Ray written anything on this topic?


Hi! Sozo

I haven't long to go now, but when I do go I want to go properly. If perchance while in the process of my going with my happy thoughts of the rewards awaiting me some idiot were to interrupt my happy departure by resuscitating me - near death experience- then, not being properly dead I'd retain those beautiful thoughts in my fading memory and be able to recall all my experiences in heaven for the admiration of all the dancing, singing and sensation seeking clowns waiting to hear all about it and make money out of it. Hallelujah!  Amen!

God bless.       

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy      "The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." 1Jn.4:8
   

oi roy,
i love the sound of that. i noticed you were from lancashire.  i've heard of that from my husband.  he grew up outside of london.  do you enjoy the "beautiful game" of football?  i support the gunners, arsenal. i grew up watching american football, but when i really started watching the english premiership football games i became an instant fan.  anyway, i know this has nothing to do with this particular post, but i just wanted to drop you a note.  but then again, in regards to "near death" experiences and such, i've had 2. the 1st time you might say i saw a white lite at the end of a tunnel, but it was in actuality the bright lites of the intensive care dept in the hospital. so much for my near death experience. i agree totally that it is a dream state experience, as i experienced that in and out myself. but as for 90 mins in heaven and then being resusitated, well i don't know about that.

cheers roy,
oi
claudia
Logged

Akira329

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 718
  • "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2008, 11:35:17 AM »

I gave this topic some time in meditation and I can clearly see what you meant Carol!!
I'm sorry if anything I said caused you to feel anything other than loving.
I was just seeking understanding and I completely get it!!!
God wouldn't have made Satan if he didn't think he had any value to his plan a purpose.
And I realize the verse I quoted about Paul clearly shows the value of Satan.
I also realize this is one of the reasons why Rays papers are so long!!! People take one sentence or phrase
and run around town spreading it without any understanding!!
Thanks Carol for you insight!!

Antaiwan
Logged
"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2008, 01:55:46 PM »

Hi! Claudia

Yes I am in a little town in Lancashire called Ashton-Under-Lyne and we love that beautiful game of football called "Soccer" only don't mention gunners and Arsenal round here or you're not going to be liked. Have you not followed the latest events? Well we are the "Champions" and the we stands for Manchester United. I personally hate the beastly game, it attracts too much of the hooligan element.

Anyway nice meeting you, where abouts are you and your husband now? Sounds as though you have moved out of the London area.

What was that you said about resuscitation after 90 minutes, if someone comes out of that then they must belong to the walking, talking dead, very dead.

How long have you and your husband been out of Babylon? You've done the right thing that's for sure. Benny Hinn has just received a thunderous applause for telling a load of lies and robbing them.


God bless you brother and sister in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     

Logged

Dawidos

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2010, 07:33:29 PM »

Before my conversion I got interested in NDE with great passion :) We should remember we believe all comes from God and because some people experience "near-death" and some not, it should be some kind clue for us. Most of NDE are very positive and very similiar. I have even read a scientific research on this subject entitled "NDEs and Universal Salvation" by Dr. Ken Vincent, which showed that christian universalists might be right :) ;) Anyway, I was wondering - if God operates beyond the physical time and space, is it possible that He gives near-death experiencers a glimpse in the future? His future kingdom after resurrection, judgementand salvation - in short words the end of his mighty plan. What do you think??
 
 
Logged

GinaMilan

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2010, 08:03:50 PM »

Before my conversion I got interested in NDE with great passion :) We should remember we believe all comes from God and because some people experience "near-death" and some not, it should be some kind clue for us. Most of NDE are very positive and very similiar. I have even read a scientific research on this subject entitled "NDEs and Universal Salvation" by Dr. Ken Vincent, which showed that christian universalists might be right :) ;) Anyway, I was wondering - if God operates beyond the physical time and space, is it possible that He gives near-death experiencers a glimpse in the future? His future kingdom after resurrection, judgementand salvation - in short words the end of his mighty plan. What do you think??
 
 

Hi David,

Interesting topic.  

I used to be taken in by NDE's before I learned Ecc 9:5.  It's not a glimpse into the future; I truly believe that.  

A friend who is an atheist recently told me how they had a "near" death experience.  "Didn't see a thing!  Nada, zilch, zippo! Nothing!"  (haha)

Then, there are those who claim they see this and that and the other thing in the "near" death experience.  

This is what I think:  Others going around telling people they've had a "near" death experience and then going on to describe what happens "after" death is akin to saying, "I went near the river, and this qualifies me to tell you what is in the river..."  

If they're seeing things, they're not dead... yet!  Ecc. 9:5

« Last Edit: June 20, 2010, 08:05:04 PM by GinaMilan »
Logged

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2010, 08:25:06 PM »

Bill Weisse had a near death experience.  Or maybe he didn't.  Maybe he had a vision of something.  Or maybe he didn't.  Maybe he fabricated the whole story to 'keep people from choosing Hell' or maybe he didn't.  Maybe he fabricated the whole story to make some money.  Or maybe he didn't.  How am I supposed to know?  I'm supposed to know by Scripture, Spiritually discerned.

People who report near death experiences  do so for their own motives and with their own prejudices.  People who COMPILE reports of near death experiences ABSOLUTELY do so for their own motives and probably with their own prejudices.  How is that of any real value to me, especially since it cannot be scientifically AND scripturally confirmed as truth?  

I'd be happy to 'preach' to someone who believes he/she has had a near death experience, just as Paul did to the Athenians worshipping their unknown God.  But I won't sit still for a sermon from him/her.  I do believe God can cause the rocks and stones to preach the gospel.  I do NOT believe I'll be heading down to the quarry anytime soon to listen.  That's about what I think of reported near death experiences.

That's just me, though.  
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2010, 08:30:07 PM »

This is what I think:  Others going around telling people they've had a "near" death experience and then going on to describe what happens "after" death is akin to saying, "I went near the river, and this qualifies me to tell you what is in the river..."  

If they're seeing things, they're not dead... yet!  Ecc. 9:5
Bill Weisse had a near death experience.  Or maybe he didn't.  Maybe he had a vision of something.  Or maybe he didn't.  Maybe he fabricated the whole story to 'keep people from choosing Hell' or maybe he didn't.  Maybe he fabricated the whole story to make some money.  Or maybe he didn't.  How am I supposed to know?  I'm supposed to know by Scripture, Spiritually discerned.

People who report near death experiences  do so for their own motives and with their own prejudices.  People who COMPILE reports of near death experiences ABSOLUTELY do so for their own motives and probably with their own prejudices.  How is that of any real value to me, especially since it cannot be scientifically AND scripturally confirmed as truth? 

I'd be happy to 'preach' to someone who believes he/she has had a near death experience, just as Paul did to the Athenians worshipping their unknown God.  But I won't sit still for a sermon from him/her.  I do believe God can cause the rocks and stones to preach the gospel.  I do NOT believe I'll be heading down to the quarry anytime soon to listen.  That's about what I think of reported near death experiences.

That's just me, though. 


Amen...well said Dave & Gina.
Logged

soberxp

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2010, 10:36:42 PM »

I have experience,and I have seen some dark stuff,ghost like a shadow and burning but no light,the ghost don't receive light,unlike the light,the ghost didn't sunshine,some kind of "dark-shine" ,maybe the ghost come from hell,maybe I will go to hell.
if you don't believe in me,just ignore.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2010, 10:44:06 PM by soberxp »
Logged

musicman

  • Guest
Re: Near Death Experiences
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2010, 12:33:42 AM »

I have experience,and I have seen some dark stuff,ghost like a shadow and burning but no light,the ghost don't receive light,unlike the light,the ghost didn't sunshine,some kind of "dark-shine" ,maybe the ghost come from hell,maybe I will go to hell.
if you don't believe in me,just ignore.

?????????
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.046 seconds with 22 queries.