THE KING OF BABYLON COMES OUT OF BABYLON

[hillsbororiver]

The following is perhaps my favorite portion of Ray's "Free Will" series. Who does Nebuchadnezzar represent to you here? I will tell you what he represents to me. ME!

http://bible-truths.com/lake15-D.html

THE KING OF BABYLON COMES OUT OF BABYLON

One of the most remarkable stories ever told, is virtually never ever told in the Church. That is the trial God inflicted upon King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. They have not a clue as to what it means or what was accomplished by it. Maybe we should read it.

God gave King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon a dream, part of which Daniel interprets as follows:

"That they shall drive you from men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make you to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet you with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over you, TILL YOU KNOW THAT THE MOST HIGH RULES IN THE KINGDOM OF MEN, AND GIVES IT TO WHOMESOEVER HE WILL" (Dan. 4:25).

Do we think that God doesn't do things like this anymore? Do we think that God "changes" the way that He does things today? Do we think that God is a "respecter of persons?"

From the above verse in Daniel, does it appear that God knows in advance whether His plan will work or not? Can God predict with certainty that He will get the desired result for His actions in the affairs of mankind? Does man have a "free will" which could possibly alter the outcome of what God predetermines must be? I speak as a fool.

"At the end of twelve months he [Nebuchadnezzar] walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon.

The king spoke, and said, is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of MY power, and for the honor of MY majesty?" (Dan. 4:29-30).

Sounds like the voice of a true "free-willer" doesn't it? This is how all free-willers speak and believe. "I am responsible for my actions and you are responsible for your actions. I can will to do good if I so desire, and you can will to do good if you so desire. God does not, and will not, ever interfere with man's free will, free choice, free moral agency." Is this a nursery rhyme we are reading in Dan. 4, or is this the word of God?

God says to Nebuchadnezzar: "Here is what I will do to you, and here is the result it will accomplish": "...till YOU KNOW..." is God's pronouncement.

Back to the palace:

"While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from you.

The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds claws" (Verses 31 & 33).

Will God's plan for the king accomplish the desired result? What if the king uses his "free will" against God's plan? What if the king desires to will something altogether different from what God has already preordained will happen with the king's heart? Again, I speak as a fool:

"And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up my eyes unto heaven, and my understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honored Him that lives for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing ['nothing' is pretty small]: and He does according to His Will.."

WAIT, WAIT, STOP! What is this? What is this that we are reading? "God does according to HIS will...?" But if this statement is true, then where pray tell, does that leave MAN'S will?

Right here, dear readers, is a drama to end all dramas of the ages. Talk about Greek tragedy—we are about to witness a great Babylonian tragedy. There is a battle of the wills going on in this drama. God pits HIS will against that of king Neduchadnezzar. Hmmm...wonder which one will win?

Consider with a rational mind for a moment the implications of the outcome of this great drama. If man's will [in this case king Nebuchadnezzar's] should win, then he has not only made a LIAR out of God, but he has in fact DEFEATED God. On the other hand, if God's will should win out, then we have conclusive, Scriptural proof, that MAN DOES NOT HAVE A WILL THAT CAN OPERATE CONTRARY TO, INDEPENDENT OF, AND IN OPPOSITION TO, THE DECLARATIONS OF GOD'S PLAN AND PURPOSE.

Yes, we are about to settle this controversy regarding man's fabled free will that supposedly enables him to will contrary to what God has ordained MUST HAPPEN. Continuing:

"...And He [God] does according to HIS will in the inhabitants of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none... [How many? 'NONE.' How many are left out? 'NONE.' How many have a free will that can will against God's declared intentions? 'NONE.' How many stubborn, dyed-in-the-wool, free-willers will repent and believe this declaration of God Himself? 'NONE.'] ...and NONE can stay [restrain] His hand, or say unto Him, What are You doing?" (Verse 35).

It doesn't get any clearer than this. If you can't accept this truth and repent of your egotistical, self worth, and self superiority, thinking that you can thwart the very intentions of God's Own will any time you desire, then you too will be PUNISHED for your stout and arrogant heart:

"Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honor the King of heaven, all Whose works are Truth, and His ways justice: and those that walk in pride He is able to abase [HUMBLE]" (Verse 37).

God told Daniel that only the "wise" would understand these things:

"And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and NONE of the wicked shall understand; but the WISE shall understand" (Dan. 12:9-10).

Remember that God repeats for emphasis those things that are extremely important:

ONCE:

"...to the intent that the living may know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever He will..." (Dan. 4:17).

A SECOND:

"...and seven times shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever He will" (Ver. 25).

A THIRD:

"till you shall have known that the heavens do rule..." (Verse 26).

A FOURTH:

"...seven times shall pass over you until you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives sit to whomsoever He will" (Ver. 32).

A FIFTH:

"...and I blessed the Most High and I praised and honored Him...and He does according to HIS WILL in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth and NONE can stay His hand..." (Ver. 34-35).

A SIXTH:

"...And he was driven from the sons of men, and his heart was made like the beasts... till he knew that the Most High God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that He appoints over it whomsoever He will" (Dan. 5:21).

Can we now believe that it is important to understand that we can accomplish nothing of our own will, and that it is not free to do anything independent of God and His purpose? Does not the mere fact that God repeats this grand declaration six times on two pages prove just how very very important this teaching is? Where else has God repeated Himself six times on two pages regarding one aspect of man's nature which must be changed?

Did not Nebuchadnezzar have a "will?" Of course he did. Did he not claim that it was by his own will that he accomplished what he did in his great kingdom? Of course he did. Did God show him that his thinking and philosophy of life and self-determinism was wrong? Yes He did. Did the king acknowledge his own stupidity and vanity? Yes he did. Does the king give us wise warning as to what God will do to all others who have this same arrogant belief that they can do things independent of God through their fabled free will? A word to the wise is sufficient.

Peace,

Joe

[Craig]

Great thread Neb, urr I mean Joe.  I am represented well by that story also.

Craig

[Roy Monis]

Hi! Joe

Yep! That fits me like a glove. Thanks for the thread.



OOH! That did hurt.

God bless you my brother in our walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     

[kweli]

And one would think that it's just a coincidence that he was actually a King of Babylon!!! That is a Spiritual Key right there. Thanks Joe. I read this before but I never saw the babylon connection. Just the No Free Will evidence.

Hello Roy. Please tell us all. Where did you find this animation of Ray after getting an email from a detractor? I'm praying for our teacher to take it easy. I know he once said "Somtimes I just wanna slap these people...spiritually", but I didnt think it was this serious.

   

[chuckt]

show this too a fundie and watch em squirm and spin....


Jer 25:9 Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.


Isa 44:28 That saith of Cyrus, [He is] my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.



chuckt

[Heidi]

Awe man....just when I think I am getting somewhere, my house comes crashing down.   Wow....awesome Joe, God bless you for posting this.

Love in Christ
Heidi

[ellie77]

Thanks Joe...very humbling....and when we think of all the things that are hapening in the world today.....awe inspiring...I do note though that,at least in many churches in Aust, that  "free will" is not even a topic to be entertained,they don't even know that it may be something to concider and that is often true of other subjects as well.  Peace to all...Ellie

[Roy Monis]

Hi! All

Brother Kweli has requested that I disclose the source of the animation of Ray bashing his computer in utter frustration at the stupidity of some of his detractors' emails. Herewith the information requested courtesy of GOOGLE. Thump in Photobucket and Heh Presto! Thousands of animations and in amongst that lot you'll find poor old Ray gasping for a breath of fresh air.

Be warned though, keep children well clear because just as Satan has crept into the Church that Jesus founded and corrupted it, he is trying to creep into the innocent animation market to corrupt it with his filth. You may be confronted with some real naughty stuff, you'll be able to handle it but keep kids clear and sensitive ladies as well.


God bless you brothers and sisters in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     

[joyful1]

Brother Roy...I absolutely, positively do not get that picture you just posted....what in the world does it mean?? Are you sure you copied the right code? heheheeh!

Kweli...." Where did you find this animation of Ray after getting an email from a detractor?"   AHAHAHAHAHAH!!! GOOD ONE!
Joyce

[cjwood]

thank you so much joe for the post and i thank God for His perfect timing for me to read your post.  i needed the lesson again. i pray that one day i can need the lesson less an less. i pray to be a blessing in His sight. and i know it can only be because of Him.

thanks again brother joe.
claudia

[dave]

  PRAISE HIS WONDERFUL NAME !

[hillsbororiver]

Thank you all for the great responses!

I want to add a little something that shoots another large hole in man's self determination and immortal soul that many proclaim. You probably never heard this quoted much in any church;

Ecc 3:19  For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

Peace,

Joe

[Roy Monis]

Thank you all for the great responses!

I want to add a little something that shoots another large hole in man's self determination and immortal soul that many proclaim. You probably never heard this quoted much in any church;

Ecc 3:19  For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

Peace,

Joe

Hi!

Hi! Joe

You're right about not hearing it in any church, I wonder why? No one asked either in case they got this!



God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     

[chuckt]

those images are screwing with my computer, anyone else??

[Phil3:10]

Roy,
Thank you so very much for your lesson on Nebuchadnezzar. No theologian or Babylonian preacher would touch this lesson for fear of being deposed from their lofty perch. GOD will and GOD does what HE wills. GOD is everything, man is 0. Thanks again for pointing out GOD'S complete power and I will now go to my Bible to read this full account in Daniel.
Phil3:10