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Author Topic: Ronald Weinland and the-end.com  (Read 16543 times)

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mark_from_oz

  • Guest
Re: Ronald Weinland and the-end.com
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2008, 10:53:58 PM »

Yes, Mark I read This book your speaking of. I found this Guy to be out there to say the least. I beleive he said 08 would be the year that this age would come to an end. Also that the 7th seal has been open. Well the yr. is not over with yet. But as the Bible says we will know if this guy is from God by the fruit he bears. If the age ends then we will know he was speaking the truth. If not we will know he just one in a long line of false prophets.
                                         Darren


Hi Darren, Thank You! This is the sort of reply I was looking for originally.  :) Almost my thoughts exactly, I was skeptical of his book too, and thought to myself "time will tell I guess".


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winner08

  • Guest
Re: Ronald Weinland and the-end.com
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2008, 12:50:26 AM »


No doubt Mark, I personaly beleive this man to be a false prophet. Mine you this is just my take. Anyways If you look back on the 1st page of this thread you will see where I emailed Ray on this matter, just to see what he had to say. You probably guessed he didn't think much of this guy. I was wondering myself why would one of the end time witnesses write a book in order to tell the world about his news. Then I thought maby this could be one way to get a message across to the masses. Then there's television. Let me say again, I beleive this guy to be a false prophet. But it does bring to mind who will be the 2 witnesses and how will we know that they are the ones. Will they do wonders? will it be on television so the world can see. Or is this symbloic and not to be taken litaral? The book of revelation is symbloic and it speaks of spiritual matters and not physical matters. So one has to ask, or they really 2 witnesses or is it a metaphore for some spiritusl meaning. From what I gather that is what the book of revelation is a revelation of spiritual matters. Then again I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first or the last time.


                                      Thanks Darren
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kweli

  • Guest
Re: Ronald Weinland and the-end.com
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2008, 07:17:12 AM »

Hello Darren

I'm very very young and that might make me out to be gullible, naive, etc. But as we all know, revelations is the Revelation of Jesus. Please read for yourself the purpose of the two witnesses.

Revelation 11
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."
4 These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks, standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth and devoureth their enemies; and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy, and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds, and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and a half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another, because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 But after three days and a half, the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fellupon them that saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from Heaven, saying unto them, "Come up hither!" And they ascended up to Heaven in a cloud, and their enemies beheld them

 Also, bear in mind what Jesus said about things like "08 would be the year that this age would come to an end"...

Matthew 24
36 But of that day and hour, knoweth no man, no, not the angels of Heaven, but My Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark
39 and knew not until the flood came and took them all away, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

As quoted from the second link that Craig put up, "As it states in the rules: This forum is primarily a place for people of a like mind to fellowship, and secondarily to discuss and question what they learn on bible-truths.com. " I think our fellow-shipping will work if first we are of like mind. As we learned from bible-truths.com, Revelations is in symbols. Verse 8 from above says "And their dead bodies [the two witnesses] shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." That is both spiritual and symbolic. We have to at least agree on that for us to be able to build each other up.

I hope you understand better what Craig and Joe are saying.

All Glory to Him

BTW, I'm still learning about the symbols so I wont be able to explain them at this stage. However, I know for sure that people who say they are the two witnesses ought to be able to at least understand how fire will proceed out of their mouth and devour their enemies, how they are to shut heaven that it doesnt rain, how they are to turn waters to blood and smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
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Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Ronald Weinland and the-end.com
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2008, 09:01:17 AM »

I'm sold. No wait, I'm bought with a price.

Rightly dividing is sorted for me.
And yes, M.G. is right. The bible says the sheep run away from a strangers voice. And in my understanding of English and Scripture, stranger's voice could be a voice that is strange from Jesus' voice.

My suggestion to you Mark is maybe read the bible (since everything we need to know is in there) and wherever you stumble, ask in the forum, the mods or Ray directly. The good thing about this approach is, as Paul always said, Ray laid the foundation. Somebody else might put the wrong mortar or wrong size bricks on that foundation.

Hope you realize I'm not contesting your belief.

All Glory to Him

Hi! Kweli

Correction please! Jesus Christ laid the foundation, Ray like Paul is building on it and we are the helping workers building it up. Would you not say that Jesus not Paul or Ray is the Rock on which the foundation stone was laid, the Chief Corner Stone?.

Forgive me if I'm wrong.


God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Ronald Weinland and the-end.com
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2008, 01:03:26 PM »


Hi Darren,

Quote
Or is this symbloic and not to be taken litaral? The book of revelation is symbloic and it speaks of spiritual matters and not physical matters. So one has to ask, or they really 2 witnesses or is it a metaphore for some spiritusl meaning. From what I gather that is what the book of revelation is a revelation of spiritual matters.

http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html --------------------

LITERAL OR SYMBOLIC?

In many cases it is not difficult to determine whether a verse is literal or not. But, since we use figures of speech so often we tend to forget that much of what we say daily is not literally true. Many of us would hardly be able to carry on a conversation if we had to drop out of our vocabulary every word and every phrase we speak that is NOT LITERALLY TRUE. The English language, as well as all other languages, is just filled with symbolic and metaphorical phrases.

The first eleven verses of Chapter one in Revelation are an introduction regarding where, how, and what John is going to record for us. Much of this introduction can be taken literally, however, not all. Beginning with verse twelve, we are confronted with one symbol after another for the remainder of the entire twenty-two-chapter-book.

Everything written in Revelation is true, but most is not literally true.

The fact is there are many many truths in the Bible that are not literally true.

Jesus "said" that the bread He gave His disciples at the Lord’s supper was His body. Yet, Jesus Himself explains in other places that this was not literally true. He gave them literal bread, and not His literal physical flesh. What that bread represented, and symbolized, was indeed, His body--but not his physical body.

Jesus said that the words that he spoke were SPIRIT (John 6:63). Jesus Christ changes not. His words are STILL spirit and they certainly were spirit when John wrote the words of Christ regarding His unveiling or revelation. Just as we physically feed on physical bread for PHYSICAL LIFE, thus also we spiritually feed on Jesus Christ’s spiritual body for SPIRITUAL LIFE.

Understand this! Some think that by accepting the Scriptures as they are given (in the case of Revelation that means AS SYMBOLS), that somehow this "spiritualizes away" the teaching. What? It is the "spiritual" aspect of these symbols that IS THE REAL THING; THE REAL UNDERSTANDING! Physical things "pass away" whereas spiritual things are eternal! The very FACT that this book is written in "symbols" is proof positive that the understanding of them is SPIRITUAL and not physical or literal.

Symbols, metaphors, and parables ARE NEVER LITERALLY TRUE! But they powerfully demonstrate SPIRITUAL TRUTHS!
------------------------------------------------------

Quote
So one has to ask, or they really 2 witnesses or is it a metaphore for some spiritusl meaning.


Rev 11:3  And I will give power unto My two witnesses 3144, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

G3144 martus - a witness (literally [judicially] or figuratively [generally]); by analogy a “martyr”: - martyr, record, witness.

Martyr - One who, by his death, bears witness to the truth of the gospel.

Do you see the connection here?  These "two witnesses" are those put to death (spiritually).  And it says in verse 3 "they shall prophesy," which is speaking under inspiration.  And what is "clothed in sackcloth" a sign of?

Mat 11:21  Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

I know this may be confusing, but I'm trying to look at what this verse means in the Scripture and what the "two witnesses" are; those who have repented and have been put to death while in the flesh and speak under inspiration of the Holy Spirit... the Elect.
Then you have the next verse that further brings understanding on this.

Rev 11:4  These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.

Zec 4:11  Then I answered and said to Him, "What are these two olive trees--at the right of the lampstand and at its left?"
v. 12  And I further answered and said to Him, "What are these two olive branches that drip into the receptacles of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?"
v. 13  Then He answered me and said, "Do you not know what these are?" And I said, "No, my lord."
v. 14  So He said, "These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth."

So who are these "anointed ones."  

2Co 1:21  Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,

Heb 1:9  Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

You can see that Paul speakes to the believers as "anointed" of God.
I hope this is helpful.  As the book of Revelation is a book of symbols and a lot of times these symbols have more than one meaning.  But the meanings can be found, you just have to dig it out of the Scriptures.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 01:17:28 PM by Kat »
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kweli

  • Guest
Re: Ronald Weinland and the-end.com
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2008, 01:22:02 PM »

Thanks for that Kat. Good tools there to help with the digging

Hello Roy

There's no way you could be wrong about that. If I dispute then I'd be denying Jesus. Here's how I was looking at it... 

Romans 15
20 Yea, so have I striven to preach the Gospel not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation;
21 but as it is written: "To whom He was not spoken of, they shall see; and they that have not heard shall understand [that's us]."

1 Corinthians 3
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For no man can lay another foundation than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [again, you are right]
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,
13 every man's work shall be made manifest; for the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall test every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereon, he shall receive a reward.

Ephesians 2
20 Ye are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,
21 in whom all the building, fitly framed together, groweth unto a holy temple in the Lord,
22 in Whom ye also are built together for a habitation of God through the Spirit.

I'm in agreement, just looking at it also from a perspective of a teacher laying a foundation, but not taking away from the foundation of Jesus.

All Glory To Him
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winner08

  • Guest
Re: Ronald Weinland and the-end.com
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2008, 07:43:54 PM »

Ok first of all let me just say I know about the book of revelation. I know about the 2 witnesses I know about these things. I was making a point about symbolism's. I have been studying the bible for over 25 yrs now and I;m still learning. That's not to say I don't know some things. Through the yrs the Lord has shown me much. I study and meditate and read and reread the Bible. Sometimes I have to take a break or I can get obsess. When I ask questions,sometimes the Lord has given me the ansewers,but I'm trying to get a conversation started. I'm trying to hear what you think or believe. So please don't take me for some young up start in the word of God. Yet I am a young up start in the teaching of Ray. Witch I thoroughly enjoy reading and learning. Once again I know that it is the revelation of Jesus Christ. Yes Kat when you said the first eleven verses in chapter one of revelation is an introduction, much of this introduction can be taken literally, but not all. Then the remainder of the book are filled with symbolisms. That is all I was trying to say. It it sometimes difficult to separate the two (literal and symbols). BTW Kweli I never said I believe that the age will end in 08. If you read what I said, it is about a certain guy who said this. I know what our Lord has said about the end time that no one knows the hour or day that this will happen except the Father. One more thing what does me asking questions about the 2 witnesses or about symbolisms have to do with not being like-minded or fellowshipping? Kweli anybody can copy a whole lot of scripture to make your points, But I preferred to write what I am thinking at the time of my questions and ansewers. This is why sometimes I come across as being different. I believe in what Ray teaches and What the Lord has shown me through HIS word.

                                       Darren
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Ronald Weinland and the-end.com
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2008, 09:11:15 PM »


Hi Darren,

I sorry you took what I posted to you, as I was saying you didn't know things or that you were young.  I was really just trying to help with the questions you had, by showing Scripture that I thought were relevant to that subject. 

I try not to talk down to anybody here or say anything that might offend.  But I guess it's the same old thing with this means of communication, if doesn't always transfer in the post the way we are trying to convey it. 

Please understand that I am learning these things right along with the rest of you and I make no claims to having more understanding than most here. 
I bring up things that Ray has posted at his site, to point people to what he has taught on a subject.  That section from Ray's paper I posted was concerning the symbolism in Rev., which you were questioning.  Sometimes I forget things that ray has already said, so I bring these back up, so we can review it, not saying you didn't already read this.

These conversations are good and help us see the different perspectives people have and I think we can learn a great deal from one another.  But since this is the means we have to fellowship here, we will just have to keep trying to use it with consideration and respect for one another.  And I hope this helps you see I certainly meant no disrespect to you in my post   :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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musicman

  • Guest
Re: Ronald Weinland and the-end.com
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2008, 09:46:36 PM »

Yes, Mark I read This book your speaking of. I found this Guy to be out there to say the least. I beleive he said 08 would be the year that this age would come to an end. Also that the 7th seal has been open. Well the yr. is not over with yet. But as the Bible says we will know if this guy is from God by the fruit he bears. If the age ends then we will know he was speaking the truth. If not we will know he just one in a long line of false prophets. btw I agree we should not follow Ray blindley but check out whatever he teaches in the Bible through scripture. Then make sure that scripture has another scripture backing the 1st one up. I know it's easyer said than done. If I'm not mistaken, Ray says don't take his word, check it out ourselves.

                                         Darren


Question:

Why would someone bother selling a book if they really believe that the present age would end this year?  Does he have to pay off some bills before Christ returns?  I don't claim to know whether money is needed in the next age or not but regardless, wouldn't giving the books away for free give one much needed bonus points with the Lord?  This man cannot possibly believe such a thing!!
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winner08

  • Guest
Re: Ronald Weinland and the-end.com
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2008, 10:42:21 PM »

Yes I agree with everything you said. But I really think he beleives that he is one of the two witnesses. I did read the book, for curiosity had gotten the better of me. I must say satan has deceived this man. This is just my belief. I have to admit it was quite thought out. But as I said before we will tell if this man is what he says he is by the fruit he bears.

                                          Darren
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winner08

  • Guest
Re: Ronald Weinland and the-end.com
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2008, 11:17:51 PM »

NO Kat, it was not you whom I was annoyed with. It was someone else. When my words get turn around and it makes me look like I didn't do my research before I posted,as in the book of revelation witch I have read and studied for yrs. Like I said I knew the ansewer to the question I ask about the two witnesses. Being symbolic or literal. I wanted to hear other people's thoughts on the subject. I like to engage in conversation about deep meaning things. I get very tired of the PC conversation that I have to engage at work. The thin line some of us have to walk when speaking about certain subjects. Here at this site I feel that I can talk openly and carry on a conversation with others who are LIKE-MINDED. About thing of importance. So please forgive me if I made you think I was speaking of you. I was not. I always enjoy your threads. I also enjoy it when you comment on my subjects. You bring lots of wisdom to the board.

                                                Darren
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kweli

  • Guest
Re: Ronald Weinland and the-end.com
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2008, 06:19:57 AM »

Hello Darren

Please forgive me if I came across that way. The last thing I want is to step on anybody's toes. I'm young. A majority of the people here are old enough to be my parents. So I wish not to come through as being disrespectful.

BTW Kweli I never said I believe that the age will end in 08. If you read what I said, it is about a certain guy who said this. I know what our Lord has said about the end time that no one knows the hour or day that this will happen except the Father.
I know you didnt say that. I was trying to point out that what this person is saying goes against what we know and believe. I also quoted the verses on what the two witnesses are to do in their appointed age and tried to hint that if this guy is one of them then he should understand what his role is before the end of time. For me, if he doesnt know that no one knows the final hour, he's not worth the trouble.


One more thing what does me asking questions about the 2 witnesses or about symbolisms have to do with not being like-minded or fellowshipping? 
I'm fairly new here. What I've noticed a lot here are disputes over what individuals believe. I believe Craig and Joe highlighted that nobody is  restricted on their private studies/research. But for us here as a union, we have to have "common grounds". A common understanding. Whether he is really one of the two or not is probably not up to us to say. But the common grounds is, nobody knows the final hour. And even if the book was literal, the two witnesses do not come to tell the world that this age will end. Infact, their time ends before the end. I believe that is what we have come to understand here at BT.

Also, I speak for myself here, the purpose of my postings was more to do away with digging into somebody else's ''ideas'. I was not clear on something in the beginning but I understand that we have to hold on to common truth. Yes we may discuss other things but there must be common truth. I used to love listening to sermons by TD Jakes because he just know the Word. But I've taken a step back to really hear what he says. On the surface, it's pure unadulterated Scripture, but the things he just drops in between are poisonous. And I almost believed them because they where mixed with a lot of the Word. I just thought I'd bring it to light. I didnt understand why Ray would say truth and lies are a dangerous combination until I saw what that did to my understanding.

Again I apologize for the way I came across to you. I will try to interrogate my comments before I post them. You are about 25 years ahead of me in studying the bible so I'm only just learning how to study.

Please forgive me  :-[

All Glory to Him
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Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Ronald Weinland and the-end.com
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2008, 07:37:53 AM »

Thanks for that Kat. Good tools there to help with the digging

Hello Roy

There's no way you could be wrong about that. If I dispute then I'd be denying Jesus. Here's how I was looking at it... 

Romans 15
20 Yea, so have I striven to preach the Gospel not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation;
21 but as it is written: "To whom He was not spoken of, they shall see; and they that have not heard shall understand [that's us]."

1 Corinthians 3
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For no man can lay another foundation than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [again, you are right]
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,
13 every man's work shall be made manifest; for the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall test every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereon, he shall receive a reward.

Ephesians 2
20 Ye are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,
21 in whom all the building, fitly framed together, groweth unto a holy temple in the Lord,
22 in Whom ye also are built together for a habitation of God through the Spirit.

I'm in agreement, just looking at it also from a perspective of a teacher laying a foundation, but not taking away from the foundation of Jesus.

All Glory To Him


Hello! Kweli

I'm sorry brother, I stand corrected. I read your post all wrong. You didn't say that Paul was the foundation stone but as master builders he and the apostles laid the foundation stone; a big, big difference.  Stupid me, it couldn't lay itself now could it? With God all is possible I know but it wasn't that way here.

Thank you brother.
   

God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     
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winner08

  • Guest
Re: Ronald Weinland and the-end.com
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2008, 12:29:55 AM »

There's no need for forgiveness. I 'm the one that's sorry. I had a very rough day and when I read your post I took it the wrong way. There are still alot of things I need to work on when it comes to expressing my thoughts.

                                            Darren
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