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[Laren]

Romans 9 seems clear to me that of the Jews, they were given the law, they knew a form of truth, yet most stumbled over the stone (Christ) and their hearts were hardened and cut off.  Other than a remnant chosen of the jews, the rest were hardened.  This was part of God's plan so that the gospel then would go to the Gentiles and we could be grafted in, but must be by faith.  The process of fullness of Gentiles is what apppears to me where we are in this age.  When this fullness is complete, then God will institute the plan to save or graft back in the hardened jews.  


Rom 11:5   In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to {God's} gracious choice.

Rom 11:7   What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; (these verses correlate well with those of Romans 1-3 too)

Rom 11:8   just as it is written, "GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."

Rom 11:11   I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation {has come} to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.

Rom 11:17   But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

Rom 11:19   You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."

Rom 11:25   For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;


Now here is my question, the many called in context appears to be the jews (except the remnant chosen), so God hardened their hearts, and opened the gospel to the Gentiles.  The fullness of Gentiles is now what is going on.  

Where are we told that of the Gentiles, many are called and few chosen??  It doesn't seem that these verses in context are referring to Gentiles re: many called and few chosen?  Now I know we have to be careful with context, but would appreciate any others thots here on "many called few chosen" for the Gentiles.  

One thing that struck me is the following verses, that definitely indicate of the Gentiles, their heart can be hardened too, and be cut off.  It just doesn't give us a number of how many will be cut off (of the gentiles)  

Rom 11:20   Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;

Rom 11:21   for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

Rom 11:22   Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Rom 11:23   And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Rom 11:24   For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural {branches} be grafted into their own olive tree?


thanks

[ertsky]

who is a jew Laren ?

Rom 2:28  For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

outwardly ? inwardly ?

Mat 22:14  For many are called, but few are chosen.

parable

i find focus in the following

sea = all humanity (and out of the sea comes the)

earth = called (christians not yet chosen and faithful so to speak, out of which comes the)

heavens = chosen (must stay under and let Christ endure in them as faithful)

this way it is evident that called or chosen has a far larger meaning than natural israel, what about the israel of God.

jews only ? no way

Rom 9:24  Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

jew and gentile

Gal 6:15  For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Gal 6:16  And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

f

[Lightseeker]

Laren,

The fullness of the Gentiles is no more about 'a number of Gentiles', in this age, than it was about 'a number of Jews' in the last age.  FULLNESS deals with a quality of maturity and not a quantity of numbers in individuals.  God is now awaiting the "fullness of this age" that comes with maturity unto "the FULLNESS of the stature of the image of Christ", spoken of in Eph 4.

The verse you mention in Matt 20:16 concerning "Many are called but few are chosen" has an interesting twist to it.  The Greek word for called in this verse is Kletos and it is defined as 'the appointed, or (specifically) a saint'.
eg. "many 'ARE saints' but few are 'chosen'".  

When I was drafted in '72'...many were 'soldiers' but few were 'green berets'.  Uncle Sam called us to be soldiers, but to be of the elite chosen...or Green Beret was up to us.  It wasn't a 'draft (from without) issue'...it was a 'desire (from within) issue'.

To be a 'called out one...or, saint', is up to God but to "cleanse ourselves from our dead works", and avail ourselves willingly to His good works to become chosen is up to us.  That, is what makes us an honorable vessel, as opposed to just being a common vessel in the house of God. (2Tim 2:20-21)

[ertsky]

Hey Lightseeker

It wasn't a 'draft (from without) issue'...it was a 'desire (from within) issue'.

but the scripture says

Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

and

Rom 9:16  So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
 
also you say

but to "cleanse ourselves from our dead works", and avail ourselves willingly to His good works to become chosen is up to us.

it's just plain unscriptural misleading false and damaging to anyone taken in by it Lightseeker

wont you repent of this error ? Christ plainly declares

Joh 15:16  Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

f

[ertsky]

and so it would seem we have here

a post suggesting chosen and called has something to do with natural israel.

and a post suggesting we choose ourselves of our own will.

both of these positions are heresy and potentially a disaster to the unwary.

Jam 1:16  Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jam 1:17  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Jam 1:18  Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.



Mat 22:8  Then he said to his servants, "'The wedding banquet is ready, but those who were invited {these are the called} were unworthy of it.

Luk 14:23  And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel {these are the chosen} them to come in, that my house may be filled.
Luk 14:24  For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.


Mat 22:14  For many are called, but few are chosen.
 
 
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[Laren]

Need a little help with these scriptures if you guys/gals could.  This is partly why I posted this thread.  

Is the body of Christ, all mankind, (or at least the called), or is it only the chosen and faithful who as "Christ (Jesus and his chosen and faithful) will save all mankind in ages to come??

It appears his body is all mankind or the called, due to the "many members".  (many called and few chosen)

(Rom 12:4)  for as in one body we have many members, and all the members have not the same office,

(Rom 12:5)  so we, the many, one body are in Christ, and members each one of one another.


(Rom 6:3)  are ye ignorant that we, as many as were baptized to Christ Jesus, to his death were baptized?  

Arent the chosen/faithful the ones baptized into his death (daily dying) (the remaining will be in LOF).  

(Rom 8:14)  for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God;

(Rom 8:29)  because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren;

Rom 8:30 And, whom he fore-appointed, the same, he also called, and, whom he called, the same, he also declared righteous, and, whom he declared righteous, the same, he also made glorious:-


Would appreciate any thots.  Thanks.

[orion77]

Act 10:41  not to all the people, but unto witnesses that were chosen before of God, even to us, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.

The chosen are the ones, foreknown and chose by God who eat and drink with Jesus, not in death, but His life.  Jesus came not to condemn, but to save.  The called are the ones who know Jesus in death and condemnation.  The chosen are also witnesses, for we have His spirit in us.  

We can open our eyes and look around and see this is true, right now, and so it has always been this way.  What does the most, the majority teach, preach and believe?  What does the few, teach, preach and believe?  The chosen are faithful witnesses, for by faith from God, we no longer see Him after the flesh, but in Spirit and power.  Many will say the same things, yet they constantly condemn and deny the power of Christ.


Joh 14:17  even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you

(Luk 22:21)  But behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.


This Spirit of truth leads us to living waters, the straight and narrow path that few travel.  

The carnal mind of Judas attempted to deny and betray the plan of God.  This same idealogy is going on even today.  They deny that God will and can save all, they deny the soverignity of God.  They have not allowed God His rightful throne, hence they cannot see, but with carnal thoughts they worship Him in vain, not knowing Him in His life.

This is the way I see it, hope it helps.

God bless,

Gary

[lilitalienboi16]

No such thing as free will lightseeker.

Man called Few chosen, Many Called, Christian Church - Those who know Christ and Him Crucified, The Chosen - The Elect - The Overcomers, are those who Know Christ and ARE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM. THey live in His ressurection.

I think that about covers it in lamence terms, lol.

God willing thats accurate offcourse

[Laren]

Man called Few chosen, Many Called, Christian Church - Those who know Christ and Him Crucified, The Chosen - The Elect - The Overcomers, are those who Know Christ and ARE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM. THey live in His ressurection.

(Rom 6:3) are ye ignorant that we, as many as were baptized to Christ Jesus, to his death were baptized?


This is again what I am struggling with, few chosen, crucified with him;  yet this verse says many baptized into his death.  (partaking of his death).  

I agree with Gary, it is Him living his life through us,.  But the only way to LIFE is to partake of his cup/death.  

Many are part of the body of Christ.  If the Christ (Him and the body, overcomers) are to save the world in coming ages; then few chosen and many again don't click.  

Would appreciate any help on these verses (see previous post of mine).  thanks.

[ertsky]

Laren romans 6:3 in an interlinear doesn't support what you are saying there

Rom 6:3 η 2228[OR] αγνοειτε 50(5719)[ARE YE IGNORANT] οτι 3754[THAT] οσοι 3745[AS MANY AS] εβαπτισθημεν 907(5681)[WE WERE BAPTIZED] εις 1519[UNTO] χριστον 5547[CHRIST] ιησουν 2424[JESUS] εις 1519 τον 3588[UNTO] θανατον 2288[HIS] αυτου 846[DEATH] εβαπτισθημεν 907(5681)[WE WERE BAPTIZED?]

the english "as many as" is from

G3745
ὅσος
hosos
Thayer Definition:
1) as great as, as far as, how much, how many, whoever
Part of Speech: pronoun




different entirely from many in "many called" which is

G4183
πολύς  /  πολλός
polus  /  polos
Thayer Definition:
1) many, much, large
Part of Speech: adjective


you say many baptised into His death ?

no way!

i cant even get myself to willingly stay under i have to learn obedience by the things i suffer

Laren even Jesus said

Mat 26:39  And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

what says other verses

1Pe 4:18  And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Paul's experience for our admonition

2Ti 1:15  This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

i am shocked really that anyone would suggest that many are called chosen and faithful.

many are called few are chosen

1Co 10:3  And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1Co 10:5  But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6  Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Co 10:7  Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Co 10:8  Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Co 10:9  Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Co 10:10  Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Co 10:11  Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:12  Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

out of the mass of humanity comes the called out of the called comes the chosen who must endure to the end letting Christ remain faithful in them, presenting their bodies a living sacrifice.

[Laren]

Laren romans 6:3 in an interlinear doesn't support what you are saying there

Rom 6:3 η 2228[OR] αγνοειτε 50(5719)[ARE YE IGNORANT] οτι 3754[THAT] οσοι 3745[AS MANY AS] εβαπτισθημεν 907(5681)[WE WERE BAPTIZED] εις 1519[UNTO] χριστον 5547[CHRIST] ιησουν 2424[JESUS] εις 1519 τον 3588[UNTO] θανατον 2288[HIS] αυτου 846[DEATH] εβαπτισθημεν 907(5681)[WE WERE BAPTIZED?]

the english "as many as" is from

G3745
ὅσος
hosos
Thayer Definition:
1) as great as, as far as, how much, how many, whoever
Part of Speech: pronoun




different entirely from many in "many called" which is

G4183
πολύς  /  πολλός
polus  /  polos
Thayer Definition:
1) many, much, large
Part of Speech: adjective


you say many baptised into His death ?

no way!

i cant even get myself to willingly stay under i have to learn obedience by the things i suffer

Laren even Jesus said

Mat 26:39  And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

what says other verses

1Pe 4:18  And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Paul's experience for our admonition

2Ti 1:15  This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

i am shocked really that anyone would suggest that many are called chosen and faithful.

many are called few are chosen

1Co 10:3  And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1Co 10:5  But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6  Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Co 10:7  Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Co 10:8  Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Co 10:9  Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Co 10:10  Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Co 10:11  Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:12  Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

out of the mass of humanity comes the called out of the called comes the chosen who must endure to the end letting Christ remain faithful in them, presenting their bodies a living sacrifice.

Thank you frank, that is helpful and makes better sense.  What about the many in the body of Christ?  any thots on that?  thanks.

[orion77]

Further down in Romans, chapter 11, we are shown the purpose of the called and chosen.


Rom 11:30
For even as you'  once were stubborn toward *God, yet now were shown mercy at their *stubbornness,

Rom 11:31
thus these also are now stubborn to this *mercy of yours, that now they'  also may be shown |mercy.

Rom 11:32
For *God locks up *all together intoin stubbornness, that He should be |merciful to *all.


The clv uses the word stubborn instead of unbelief, showing he is talking about believers.  The Israelites were believers, albeit stubborn.  Likewise in each of our lives, we were at one time stubborn.  It works all in all, to show us His mercy.

God bless,

Gary

[ertsky]

the body of Christ again is few

my body has many members (hands eyes feet ears etc etc) but the beast has seven heads and ten horns LOL! (i know i know bad joke)

i think you mean this verse?

Rom 12:4  For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Rom 12:5  So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

yes many members in the body of Christ not "the many"

but we can't have an interpretation of a verse that contradicts Christ

Mat 7:13  Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

how many of josephs brothers ever loved Him more than their own lives

how many made it into the promised land, many? or few? joshua caleb the kids?

2Co 2:17  For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Laren again i'm a little shocked that anyone would suggest there are many in the first resurrection, from Genesis to Revelation MANY ARE CALLED FEW ARE CHOSEN

how many in the ark, FEW

how many came out of sodom and gomorrah, FEW

Luk 13:23  Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24  Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luk 13:25  When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
 
f

[Laren]

the body of Christ again is few

Rom 12:4  For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Rom 12:5  So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

yes many members in the body of Christ not "the many"

good scriptures frank, and just because i question scripture certain scriptures doesn't mean i am saying that "many will be in the first resurrection".  So please don't interpret it that way.  I am just trying to understand verses that seem to contradict.   thanks.

[orion77]

Knowledge, from being drawn or dragged by God, put through the fire with tests, trials and tribulations is knowledge learned from experience, than just the hearing of the word.  With the Spirit and this type of knowledge is what makes us true witnesses.


We can see in our own lives the different way we now see God, than before.  Our own stubborness (carnal nature) prevented us from seeing the hidden manna, even though we were believers.  We must press forward, yet not forget from where we were, because many of our brethren are still in that state.  Yet, the day will come they too will be dragged by God, whether in this life or through the lake of fire.

I cannot see myself any better than the many called, for they are all His, also.  If chosen in this world, we also shall be judged, for noone can escape the judgment of God.  At times it can seem contradictory why the many called and the few chosen.  It's all in Gods plan, yet it is easy to see who is carnal and who is spiritual.  The difference between the worldly religious and the spiritually minded is incredible.  Hence, the many called and the few chosen.

God bless,

Gary

[Lightseeker]

Need a little help with these scriptures if you guys/gals could.  This is partly why I posted this thread.  

 
Rom 8:30 And, whom he fore-appointed, the same, he also called, and, whom he called, the same, he also declared righteous, and, whom he declared righteous, the same, he also made glorious:-

Would appreciate any thots.  Thanks.

Laren,

The word 'called/kaleo' in the Rom 8:30 verse deals with the call to come from darkness to Christ :

2564 kaleo:  to "call" (prop. aloud, but used in a variety of applications, dir. or otherwise)

This word kaleo is in the NT over a hundred times and means something totally different than the word kletos you originally asked about in Matt. 20:16.  Kletos is only in the NT 4 times:

2822 kletos: invited ie appointed, or (spec) a saint

Kaleo is the call to become a believer and kletos is one who has already been called/appointed...a saint

I agree one does not have free will concerning coming to Christ.  You have no more choice in being birthed into the family of God than you did being birthed into your earthly family.

JOH 1:13  Which were born (again), not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

But I also believe that after being birthed into the family of God we do have free will.  But I don't get adamant about that opinion.

JOH 8:36   If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.  

There is still the issue of 'freedom of will' versus 'freedom of action'.  As a believer I can choose (of my will) to kill some one.  I can fire that gun point blank and have it "miraculously" miss the person and they run off.  Did I have free will?...yes.  Did I exercise my free will...yes.  Was my will accomplished?...no.  Whose will was?...GOD's!  But how is the Judgment seat of Christ going to deal with my 'attempted/free will' action?  Jesus said:

MAT 5:21-22  Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22  But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:...

That's why I think scripture admonishes us to take every thought captive to Christ.   How can a Christian do that?  By his own free will...I think.  

Orion,

Good post.  But, might I add, that the word for chosen in your quoted Acts verse is totally different then the word kletos in Matt. 20:16

Act 10:41 not to all the people, but unto witnesses that were chosen/procheirotoneo before of God, even to us, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.

4401 procheirotoneo: to elect in advance

The word chosen in Matt. 20:16 is the word  
1588 eklektos: select; by impl. favorite

So it appears to me that there's two Greeks words in this thread trying to be defined with one defintion by others here.

[ertsky]

Lightseeker your post is full of dangerous deception and whether intentional or not i find i must correct the false doctrine

i've got nothing against you personally Lightseeker but your post contains misleading error.

first this bit confuses called and chosen

Kaleo is the call to become a believer and kletos is one who has already been called/appointed...a saint

Mat 22:14  For1063 many4183 are1526 called,2822 but1161 few3641 are chosen.1588

called is the greek kletos 2822

klētos
Thayer Definition:
1) called, invited (to a banquet)

chosen is the greek eklektos 1588

eklektos
Thayer Definition:
1) picked out, chosen

so MANY are invited FEW are chosen out

chosen out of the called

as in come out of her

Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.


#########

next this bit is no way to defend the false doctrine of free will

But I also believe that after being birthed into the family of God we do have free will. But I don't get adamant about that opinion.

JOH 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

John 8:36 is talking about being set free from sin, not enslaved to an idol of the heart called free will!

the illusion of free will results in enslavement to sin not freedom in Christ.

free will is really the will of the beast, the man of sin sitting in the temple of God showing that he is God

2Th 2:8 And, then, shall be revealed the lawless one,—whom, the Lord Jesus, will slay with the Spirit of his mouth, and paralyse with the forthshining of his Presence:—

######

then we have this


 

There is still the issue of 'freedom of will' versus 'freedom of action'. As a believer I can choose (of my will) to kill some one. I can fire that gun point blank and have it "miraculously" miss the person and they run off. Did I have free will?...yes. Did I exercise my free will...yes. Was my will accomplished?...no. Whose will was?...GOD's! But how is the Judgment seat of Christ going to deal with my 'attempted/free will' action? Jesus said:

in the word of manuel from fawlty towers CHE!?

then this

That's why I think scripture admonishes us to take every thought captive to Christ. How can a Christian do that? By his own free will...I think.

but the scripture says

Phi 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

and again

Rom 9:16  So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

and again

Mat 26:39  And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

when Jesus the Fathers holy Christ says "not as i will" then i just want to disappear altogether

talk about FAITHFUL

###########

i'm not typing all this to mount an anti Lightseeker campaign but because the doctrine matters

THE DOCTRINE

Joh 8:31  Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32  And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 21:18  Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
Joh 21:19  This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

Luk 9:51  And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,

f

[orion77]

Lightseeker, I appreciate your opinion.  Also look at the word that preceeds chosen in this verse.

Act 10:41  not to all the people, but unto witnesses that were chosen before of God, even to us, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.



G3144
μάρτυς
martus
mar'-toos
Of uncertain affinity; a witness (literally [judicially] or figuratively [generally]); by analogy a “martyr�: - martyr, record, witness.


The elect or chosen, who were chosen before the foundation, by God, to eat and drink with Jesus after, notice after He rose from the dead.  Now these witnesses, figuratively speaking being martyrs.  Now this is the same thing we as followers of Jesus do, we die and give this self up as a martyr to God.  There is no greater love one can do than to give his life for a friend.  The day will come when we shall see Him as He is, for we shall be like Him.  As He was in the world, so shall we.

I also agree, I do not wish to argue over words, when we are really bringing up the same point, just from another point of view.  We can all gain more knowledge from others perspectives.  That is why I love this forum.  Just hope we can keep it in brotherly love and respect towards each other.  I value others opinions, even at times can be different.  This can bring other things to light that maybe I cannot see.

God bless,

Gary

[Lightseeker]

Lightseeker, I appreciate your opinion.  Also look at the word that preceeds chosen in this verse.

I also agree, I do not wish to argue over words, when we are really bringing up the same point, just from another point of view.  We can all gain more knowledge from others perspectives.  That is why I love this forum.  Just hope we can keep it in brotherly love and respect towards each other.  I value others opinions, even at times can be different.  This can bring other things to light that maybe I cannot see.

God bless,

Gary

Gary,

I too, hope we can keep brotherly love and respect towards each other.  Your word witness speaks to me of the importance of walking the walk in love toward one another.  I personally don't think anyone's theology is without flaw including mine :wink:  And even though Jesus was made like unto his brethren (us) in every respect, according to Hebrews, He still laid down His will[]/b to obey the Father in the Garden.  May we do the same in our time of testing.

Blessings back to you and good nite

[lilitalienboi16]

Good post ertsky, i too was gonna adress this but it appears you beat me to it

I have noticed however lightseeker ignores the scripture put before Him.

P.S. I am confused lightseeker, Jesus obeyed God in the garden? Perhaps i missed this, honostly asking for an explanation. Thank you