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Author Topic: called and chosen  (Read 15670 times)

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worm

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called and chosen
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2006, 05:46:01 AM »

what I've learnt recently is that the "overcomers" (elect, chosen) are those who love unconditionally (agape love) and those who forgive unconditionally, even when they crucify you...

"Father forgive them cause they don't know what they're doing"

It has NOTHING to do with what happens on the outside, but what comes from our insides and how we deal with our fellow man
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ertsky

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called and chosen
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2006, 08:41:57 AM »

worm

what i've learned recently is that if you see false and misleading doctrine and don't say anything about it, and yet claim to love Christ, then you are a hypocrite.

and that a very important part of the definition of love is being faithful to the teaching of Christ.

1Ti 5:20  Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

that if you care more about peoples "feelings" than Truth then you are a hypocrite.

i've learned that if you are honest and call it as God gives you eyes to see it then there are those who will be offended and hate Christ in you

Luk 6:22  Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
Luk 6:23  Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
Luk 6:24  But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
Luk 6:25  Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
Luk 6:26  Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

worm i'm learning obedience by the things i suffer, how about you ?

i've learned that if you see a lie and say nothing you are a hypocrite.

this is what i hear the Lord teaching me

Eze 3:9  As an adamant harder than flint have I made thy forehead: fear them not, neither be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house.

Eze 3:17  Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
Eze 3:18  When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Eze 3:19  Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Col 3:22  Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:
Col 3:23  And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Col 3:24  Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
Col 3:25  But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

f
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Laren

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called and chosen
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2006, 10:41:32 AM »

Learning obedienced by the things we suffer is good.  But why suffer?  Paul continuously stressed that his suffering, his daily death was for a very important reason, and that was the salvation of others.  It was not about him, but about others.  He suffered for others salvation.  That is love.  His life goal was to be humbled so Christ through him would reveal the gospel to others, and that people would continue to stay firm in the gospel.

2Co 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort;

2Co 1:4  who comforteth us in all our affliction, that we may be able to comfort them that are in any affliction, through the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
 
2Co 1:5  For as the sufferings of Christ abound unto us, even so our comfort also aboundeth through Christ.

2Co 1:6  But whether we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; or whether we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which worketh in the patient enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer:

2Co 1:6  But whether we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; or whether we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which worketh in the patient enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer:

When Paul speaks of running the race, to me it is the race of staying true to the Gospel, but not for himself, but to see others come to maturity in Christ.  This was the prize he ran for.  His prize was knowing others were coming to a saving knowledge of Christ.  He didnt' just preach it, he lived it.  

Just as Christ suffered and died for us (and he willingly did so out of love), Paul willingly suffered and died daily for the salvation of others.  

He lived his life for others.  He became all things to all men to advance the gospel.  

For me, I see that I have suffered immensely in the last three years, but that suffering is still about me and God, I am always thinking about how much closer I am to him, and how he has revealed himself to me through suffering.  But I havent' gotten to the point of others salvation and growth and being more important than my own.  Still more beast to be kicked off the throne.
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Laren

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called and chosen
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2006, 10:52:25 AM »

Just thot a few other great scriptures.  

2Co 4:10  always bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus, that the life also of Jesus may be manifested in our body.

2Co 4:11  For we who live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal flesh.

2Co 4:12  So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

God bless
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ertsky

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called and chosen
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2006, 01:06:52 PM »

hmmmm

Quote
He lived his life for others. He became all things to all men to advance the gospel.


and yet we read (Paul was a whole counsel man of God)(sum of the Word not some of the Word)

1Ti 1:20  Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

2Ti 4:14  Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:
2Ti 4:15  Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.

try and love everybody but don't be blind some kinda people try to mess with your mind




Quote
what I've learnt recently is that the "overcomers" (elect, chosen) are those who love unconditionally (agape love) and those who forgive unconditionally


define love and be sure to include these verses

1Co 5:5  To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Co 5:6  Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1Co 5:7  Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8  Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

define love unconditionally and be sure to include the following

Heb 12:6  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ********, and not sons.
Heb 12:9  Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10  For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:11  Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

this is what i hear

1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

definition above vague allusion

doctrine above personalities

simplicity openess and godly sincerity

honesty transparency and

NO GUILE, NO DUPLICATE

2Co 1:12  For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.
 
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Lightseeker

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called and chosen
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2006, 02:09:38 PM »

lilitalienboi16

Quote
P.S. I am confused lightseeker, Jesus obeyed God in the garden? Perhaps i missed this, honostly asking for an explanation. Thank you


You're absolutely right, Jesus obeyed in the Garden by laying down His will and obeying the Father's will (Luke 22:42).  To me that's the perfect definition of what "Free will" means personally.  It's laying my life down to take up 'aonios' life which will allow me to overcome the last enemy which is death physically in this age (1Co 15:26).  

Worm,

Quote
what I've learnt recently is that the "overcomers" (elect, chosen) are those who love unconditionally (agape love) and those who forgive unconditionally, even when they crucify you...


Loved your imput.  Our Lord came to bring grace and truth.  Truth without love is too hard and love without truth is too soft.  To speak the truth in love takes balance and maturity.


Laren,

Quote
Learning obedienced by the things we suffer is good. But why suffer? Paul continuously stressed that his suffering, his daily death was for a very important reason, and that was the salvation of others. It was not about him, but about others. He suffered for others salvation. That is love.


While all you say above is true...it's not the whole truth.  Paul suffered also that he might win Christ and overcome physical death...which he failed to due by going back to the law (Acts 21:20-23).

PHI 3:8  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9  And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10  That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11  If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12  Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13  Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended:

How interesting that Paul is still suffering and trying to win Christ in verse 8.  And what comes with that winning?  According to verse 10 it was so he might know the ressurection.  And he isn't talking about the resurrection where all the graves will be opened in the future as in verse 11.  The Greek word for resurrection in verse 10, is different than verse 11.  Paul was hoping and striving to overcome the last enemy, of physical death, in this life.

Question:  What is the difference between immortality and eternal life?

ROM 2:7  to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal/aonios life;

Compare what I've just posted with your scriptures  in 2Co 4:10-12.
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Laren

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called and chosen
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2006, 02:15:04 PM »

Amen Ertsky, the sum of his word is truth.  Love never compromises Godliness.  

It seems to me that your mission at this time in your walk is to expose false doctrine, and that is good; but I hope in so doing you don't throw every babe in Christ over to satan for their destruction.  Babes must grow into maturity, and if God has chosen that babe to move on, then your and mine daily death, our suffering is for their salvation.  The gospel is simple, God has conciled the world to him, now be conciled to him.  Paul died daily for this, he suffered immensely, and his desire was to preach this to the point of death.  Anguish, crying, was his heart for fellow believers.  He desperately wanted them to move onto maturity.  For me, i have realized lately that my suffering was and is too self centered, thanking God for it for my salvation, rather than the salvation of others.  Laying down my life for others, now to me that is the Gospel, and that is Love.  I'm sure not saying it involves compromising godliness, and doesn't involve rebuke.  But it also involves comforting, praying, sharing in blessings and trials.  taking each others burdens on together.
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lilitalienboi16

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called and chosen
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2006, 02:34:50 PM »

Lightseeker, you saying Christ obeyed His Father in the Garden seems like alot of your own doctrin. Unless you show me scripture instead of tell me what you think, then all that is is another doctrin of man. Just like your free will belief. Gods words are alot more powerfull then man. Does anyone else know about this "Christ obeyed His father in the garden by laying down His life" reasoning of thinking? Does it have any scriptural support?

P.S. There is no scripture that supports free will. (Holding on to the traditions and doctrin of men)
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ertsky

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called and chosen
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2006, 02:45:06 PM »

Quote
Paul suffered also that he might win Christ and overcome physical death...which he failed to due by going back to the law (Acts 21:20-23).


LIGHTSEEKER!! :shock:

what kind of carnal pseudo spiritual crack are you smoking??

i'd like to refute that rubbish you typed but i'm still in shock that anyone could be that blind!!!

next you'll be quoting the serpent and saying "you shall not surely die"

sometimes i just have to marvel at the foolishness of those professing wisdom   :roll:

can someone else please refute Lightseeker i'm too overwhelmed by the depth of cluelessness in that quote  :shock:

f
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ertsky

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called and chosen
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2006, 03:09:47 PM »

Quote
How interesting that Paul is still suffering and trying to win Christ in verse 8. And what comes with that winning? According to verse 10 it was so he might know the ressurection. And he isn't talking about the resurrection where all the graves will be opened in the future as in verse 11. The Greek word for resurrection in verse 10, is different than verse 11. Paul was hoping and striving to overcome the last enemy, of physical death, in this life.


lightseeker

first resurrection, second death please look them up

and as for your other quote

Quote
Paul suffered also that he might win Christ and overcome physical death...which he failed to due by going back to the law (Acts 21:20-23).


how you put those acts 21 verses in there i'll probably never understand

if Paul ever went back under the law i'll circumcise myself with a blunt rock

read it lightseeker, just one of many many many passages that contradict the impossible to describe wrongness of your post

Gal 5:11  But I, brothers, if I proclaim circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the offense of the Cross has passed away.
Gal 5:12  O that the ones causing you to doubt will sever themselves.
Gal 5:13  For, brothers, you were called to freedom. Only do not use the freedom for an opening to the flesh. But through love serve one another.
Gal 5:14  For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

f
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Andy_MI

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called and chosen
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2006, 03:10:48 PM »

I like how the Rotherhams reads in the following verses.

Phi 3:8 Yea, doubtless! and I account all things to be, loss, because of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for the sake of whom, the loss, of all things, have I suffered, and do account them refuse, in order that, Christ, I may win,
Phi 3:9 And be found in him—not having a righteousness of my own, that which is by law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is, of God, upon my faith,—
Phi 3:10 To get to know him, and the power of his resurrection and fellowship of his sufferings, becoming conformed unto his death,—
Phi 3:11 If by any means I may advance to the earlier resurrection, which is from among the dead:
Phi 3:12 Not that I have, already, received, or have, already, reached perfection, but I am pressing on—if I may even lay hold of that for which I have also been laid hold of by Christ Jesus:—
Phi 3:13 Brethren! I, as to myself, reckon that I have, not yet, laid hold; one thing, however,—the things behind, forgetting, and, unto the things before, eagerly reaching out,
Phi 3:14 With the goal in view, I press on for the prize of the upward calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Notice in verse 11 it reads "earlier resurrection"
It looks like at the time of his writing to the Phillipians, Paul was not sure yet of his election since "he that endures to the end shall be saved"

In 2Tim which is considered the last book Paul wrote he says this:

2Ti 4:6 For, I, already, am being poured out as a drink-offering, and, the season of my release, is at hand,—
2Ti 4:7 The noble contest, have I contested, the race, have I finished, the faith, have I kept:
2Ti 4:8 Henceforth, lieth by for me—the crown, of righteousness, which the Lord will render unto me in that, day,—The righteous judge,—Ye, not alone unto me, but unto all them also who have loved his forthshining.

Looks like he had assurance that since he finished his race well that he finally had assurance of his election.

Am I on the right track here?

Love in Christ,

Andy
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ertsky

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called and chosen
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2006, 03:25:36 PM »

God bless you Andy  :D

not only is your train on the right track it would appear you are running right on schedule  :lol:

your post has caused the spiritual apoplexy brought on by lightseekers trainwreck theology to return to calm relaxed contemplation of the awesome plan of God.

f
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orion77

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called and chosen
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2006, 03:42:39 PM »

Lightseeker, the verses you quoted from Acts 21:20-23, I think you need to reread them again and keep going through the rest of the chapter.  You will see that Paul was persecuted by the jews, because he was telling them to forsake the law of moses.

At that time there were many believers who believed in Jesus, but were still zealous for the law of Moses.  Paul was teaching that the law of Moses was fullfilled and we are no longer under the law.  And even today, the majority of christians still believe we are under the law.  

God bless,

Gary
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Lightseeker

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called and chosen
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2006, 03:56:52 PM »

Quote from: lilitalienboi16
Lightseeker, you saying Christ obeyed His Father in the Garden seems like alot of your own doctrin. Unless you show me scripture instead of tell me what you think, then all that is is another doctrin of man. Just like your free will belief. Gods words are alot more powerfull then man. Does anyone else know about this "Christ obeyed His father in the garden by laying down His life" reasoning of thinking? Does it have any scriptural support?

P.S. There is no scripture that supports free will. (Holding on to the traditions and doctrin of men)


LUK 22:42  "Father, if thou art willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."

MAT 26:53   Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?  


Like I said earlier, there may be a difference of opinion as to what 'free will' is.  Jesus' soul (mind, will, emotions) was sorrowful unto death in the garden in its struggle with going to the cross of death.  But scripture indicates to me that Jesus chose to obey the Father's will.  His soul was in such a struggle that His physical body broke down and bled under the emotional stress.  Psychology affects biology and soul affects body.

MAT 26:38  Then he said to them, "My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me."  39  And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt."

What's your definition of free will?
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eutychus

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called and chosen
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2006, 04:06:37 PM »

Quote from: Lightseeker
Quote from: lilitalienboi16
Lightseeker, you saying Christ obeyed His Father in the Garden seems like alot of your own doctrin. Unless you show me scripture instead of tell me what you think, then all that is is another doctrin of man. Just like your free will belief. Gods words are alot more powerfull then man. Does anyone else know about this "Christ obeyed His father in the garden by laying down His life" reasoning of thinking? Does it have any scriptural support?

P.S. There is no scripture that supports free will. (Holding on to the traditions and doctrin of men)


LUK 22:42  "Father, if thou art willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."

MAT 26:53   Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?  


Like I said earlier, there may be a difference of opinion as to what 'free will' is.  Jesus' soul (mind, will, emotions) was sorrowful unto death in the garden in its struggle with going to the cross of death.  But scripture indicates to me that Jesus chose to obey the Father's will.  His soul was in such a struggle that His physical body broke down and bled under the emotional stress.  Psychology affects biology and soul affects body.

MAT 26:38  Then he said to them, "My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me."  39  And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt."

What's your definition of free will?




i found this preety good: from email section

Dear Ralph:
I have answered this question dozens and dozens and dozens of times. You need to read my paper on Free Will. It is all answered thre is GREAT detail. Choices have absolutely NOTHING to do with free will. We alol have a "will." We all make billions of "choices" in our lives. Not ONE OF US HAS A 'FREE' will; and not one of us can made a "FREE" choice. You have to first understand the meaning of the terms. The beginning of part A of my paper explains this in very great and simple detail. Of course we have a will and of course we can make choices, but neither is "free"--our will and our choices are CAUSED by many things over which we have absolutely no control whatsoever. God is that ultimate controlling Force. You must read and believe the Scriptures. I give dozens and dozens and dozens of Scriptures proving that we cannot make an UNCAUSED choice, and whatever it is that CAUSES our choices is in ontrol, NOT US. "For it is GOD [not us, GOD] which works in us BOTH to will and to do of HIS good pleasure" (Eph. 2:13). We MUST believe the Scriptures.
God be with you,
Ray
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Lightseeker

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called and chosen
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2006, 05:29:29 PM »

Ray,

Thanks Euty, I would agree totally with that E-mail, in as far as it goes in the understanding of that scripture.  But I wouldn't break fellowship with someone who still thought 'their choice' and 'will' wasn't free because they didn't understand it as such.  So I truely thank you for offering teaching over judgment.

PHI 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.  

But what if I made a choice which was the result of the 'god of this world',  whose will isn't going to be for God's good pleasure as Phi 2:13 says.  Do lying and evil works bring good pleasure to your Father in heaven?   That's not my view of my heavenly Father.  That view lines up with churchianitie's definitions of His good pleasure being torture in a eternal hell.

I'm wondering what Jesus meant when He said the pharisees were listening to another Father/god of this world's voice?  And that god's will wasn't doing The Fathers GOOD PLEASURE.  In other words 'their will' was within the Father's will, but not His good acceptable and perfect will...but only His acceptable will?  Instead it was accomplishing the Devil's BAD WORKS and his PLEASURE in the Pharisees?

JOH 8:44   Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Thoughts Ray?
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hillsbororiver

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called and chosen
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2006, 06:23:55 PM »

Quote from: Lightseeker
Ray,

Thanks Euty, I would agree totally with that E-mail, in as far as it goes in the understanding of that scripture.  But I wouldn't break fellowship with someone who still thought 'their choice' and 'will' wasn't free because they didn't understand it as such.  So I truely thank you for offering teaching over judgment.

PHI 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.  

But what if I made a choice which was the result of the 'god of this world',  whose will isn't going to be for God's good pleasure as Phi 2:13 says.  Do lying and evil works bring good pleasure to your Father in heaven?   That's not my view of my heavenly Father.  That view lines up with churchianitie's definitions of His good pleasure being torture in a eternal hell.

I'm wondering what Jesus meant when He said the pharisees were listening to another Father/god of this world's voice?  And that god's will wasn't doing The Fathers GOOD PLEASURE.  In other words 'their will' was within the Father's will, but not His good acceptable and perfect will...but only His acceptable will?  Instead it was accomplishing the Devil's BAD WORKS and his PLEASURE in the Pharisees?

JOH 8:44   Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Thoughts Ray?


http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html

Dee, I had previously asked you if you had read any of Ray's papers, Satan was created for this very purpose.

Eutychus' name is actually Chuck, he pasted a portion of one of Ray's e-mail responses.

Please let us know your feelings on the link I posted for you.

Thanks,

Joe
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eutychus

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called and chosen
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2006, 06:31:40 PM »

Eutychus' name is actually Chuck,






 the providence of Almighty is awsome. no way to totally understand.

 Christ being the example, teaching  everything and everywhere he went had a purpose, he did what we cant, but as we grow we become more like him.

 Christ had boundries just like us and obsticals the difference being he did everything right, praise God.

all Glory and honour to Christ the king!!

love
chuck :oops: euty
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lilitalienboi16

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called and chosen
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2006, 06:50:35 PM »

Lightseeker,

Quote
But what if I made a choice which was the result of the 'god of this world', whose will isn't going to be for God's good pleasure as Phi 2:13 says. Do lying and evil works bring good pleasure to your Father in heaven? That's not my view of my heavenly Father. That view lines up with churchianitie's definitions of His good pleasure being torture in a eternal hell.



Thats impossible, because as was pointed out by Hills, the "god" of this world - Satan - was created for the very purpose of what He is doing.

Remember the Story of Job, could satan touch Job without Gods permission? Could He do anything to Job (FOR EXAMPLE KILL HIM) if God did not give Him permission to do it?

Here is some scripture on satan

"Behold, I have created the smiththat blows the coals in the fire, and that brings forth an instrument for His work, and I have CREATED THE WASTER [SATAN] TO DESTROY" (Isaiah 54:16).

"In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one UNTO SATAN for DESTRUCTION of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (I Cor. 5:4-5).

Here is the Scripture on free will, well some scripture.

"Having PREDESTINATED US ... according to the good pleasure of HIS will ... In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of Him who worketh ALL THINGS after the COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL:" (Eph. 1:5 and 11).

"Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called..." (Rom. 8:30).

"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy ... It is not of him that willeth, but of God who showeth mercy" (Rom. 9: 15-16).

God Himself is the reason people do not believe!

"the God of this world (age - aion) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (II Cor. 4:4).

"God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day" (Rom. 11:8).
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Lightseeker

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called and chosen
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2006, 07:55:26 PM »

Thanks Ray I'll read that.  Sorry Chuck....my bad.

lilitalienboi16

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Thats impossible, because as was pointed out by Hills, the "god" of this world - Satan - was created for the very purpose of what He is doing.


Which I addressed as part of God's acceptable will but not His Good and Perfect pleasure.  It is part of the soverignty of God.

In the story of Job did God tell Satan what he could do???  Or did God just tell him what he couldn't do?  So whose will was active in Job's life?  It looks like God and Satan to me.

All your 'free will scriptures' fall under my original premise.  In it I said that I didn't think anyone had free will untill they were born again, then they were free and free indeed.  And I totally agree with your
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God Himself is the reason people do not believe!
scriptures.
 
  But now I'm actually wondering if they only lacked free will to choose Christ.  I may be going backward thanks to you guys imput.   :wink:  Not really...I'm enjoying and considering the imput from all...OK most.  :P
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