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Author Topic: after judgment for non chosen?  (Read 5093 times)

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Tonythetiger

  • Guest
after judgment for non chosen?
« on: July 02, 2008, 10:52:35 PM »

The scripture makes it clear to me or not, that there is separation
after judgment. The chosen inherits the kingdom and the non chosen
are out side of the kingdom.   REVELATION 21:7-8  22:14-15

What is your understanding after the lake of fire for non chosen?
where is there home?
Any scriptures?
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: after judgment for non chosen?
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2008, 11:12:24 PM »


Hi Tony,

Isa 26:9  With my soul I have desired You in the night,
       Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early;
       For when Your judgments are in the earth,
       The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

When Christ returns with His Elect to judge the world, they will rule on the earth.

Rev 5:10  And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Here is an email that shows Christ returns to this earth to rule.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2164.0.html ------

Are you sure it was my paper on the rapture that you read?  You missed a lot. I make it abundantly clear that Jesus is coming back to rule ON THIS EARTH WITH HIS SAINTS, and that the whole rapturing the saints back to heaven is totally unscriptural. Here is just one little section from my paper dealing specifically with how Christ returns to this earth to rule on this earth:

"I know of no Scripture that states that Christ will set up His Kingdom and rule it from heaven. So it doesn’t say He returns to heaven; it doesn’t say He returns to earth; it doesn’t say He stays in the air either. We know from other Scriptures and prophesies that Christ does indeed return and rule on this earth. However, for the sake of the rapturists, can we know from this very Scripture alone whether Christ immediately returns with His saints to earth or does He return to heaven first for a number of years?

We can learn something remarkable from the way that God uses the word "meet" in this Scripture.

    "Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air." (I Thes. 4:17).

In this verse as in three others, God uses the Greek word apatesis which is translated "to meet." It is distinguished from a half dozen other Greek words which are variously translated, "meet,’ "meet with," "meeting," "meeting with," etc. The Greek word apatesis, is, however, used only three other times.

One authority tells us that this word apatesis was used in ancient times to describe the actions of an official welcoming delegation that had been sent "to meet" a visiting dignitary.

It is said that the word literally meant, "meeting and returning with." Not being an etymologist, historian, or scholar, I can’t speak with any authority here, but I can use a concordance and I can read the Scriptures. Let’s look at these three occasions and see if, indeed, this word carries the connotation of "meeting and returning with."

       1. "Now in the middle of the night a clamor occurs: Lo! The bridegroom! Come out to meet [apatesis] Him!" (Matt. 25:6).

          Comment: After they went out to meet the bridegroom, they didn’t stay outside, but rather they came back inside with the Bridegroom. Remember, it is "midnight" and it is dark--that’s why they took oil for their torches. They went out to meet the Bridegroom, then returned with Him to the house, and locked the door.

       2. When Christ began His entrance into Jerusalem (which was itself a type of His triumphant return to Jerusalem), many people went out with palm fronds to meet Him.

          "On the morrow the vast throng, who are coming for the festival, hearing that Jesus is coming into Jerusalem, got fronds of palms and came out to meet [apatesis] Him" (John 12:13).

          Needless to say, they did not return with Christ back to Bethany, but returned back into Jerusalem with Christ.

       3. When the saints in Rome heard of Paul’s soon arrival, they went out to meet him.

          "And thence the brethren, hearing about us, come to meet [apatesis] us as far as Appii Forum and Three Taverrns, perceiving whom, Paul, thanking God, took courage. Now when we entered Rome" (Acts 28:15-16).

And again, it is seen that they returned back to Rome with Paul, they did not return with Paul back to Puteoli.

The fourth time this Greek word apatesis is translated "to meet" is in I Thes. 4:17: "... we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in the clouds, to meet [apatesis] the Lord in the air."

Now I am almost sure that I can hear faint protests in the distance from objecting rapturists. Notwithstanding, based on all the usage's of this word apatesis [to meet], and we read them all, when someone went out to meet someone else, where did they always go next? That’s right, back where they came from. So if God is consistent with the use of this word, then when the saints of I Thes. 4 meet the Lord in the air, they will then return with Christ back to the EARTH!"

My paper on the rapture is just as "straight forward" as anything I have written. Sorry you missed it all.

God be with you,

Ray


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Redbird

  • Guest
Re: after judgment for non chosen?
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2008, 11:18:00 PM »

Hi Tony,

Welcome.  :)  I was just thinking today, how it seems there is a separation happening in the here and now.  There are things happening all around the world.......very sad and horrifying things to say the least. But then, then there are also wonderful things happening also.  Is the new age or some might say new heaven and new earth occurring for some ~ while the old heaven and earth are passing away at the same time? Makes me wonder.

Peace to you,
Lisa
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Tonythetiger

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Re: after judgment for non chosen?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2008, 11:45:55 PM »

Where do the non believer, sinners without repentance, evil people go
after they go through the lake of fire? Satan's home after the lake of fire?
Any scriptures? or was that them above?


Thanks kat and lisa for your reply.

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rjsurfs

  • Guest
Re: after judgment for non chosen?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2008, 12:20:24 AM »

Hi Tony,

There are hundreds of scriptures.  Knowing Kat she will try to get you as much of an answer as possible... but what you really need to do is begin studying The Lake of Fire Series from Ray's main page.  It begins here:
http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

It is not a quick read... it is an intense study.  I want to give you an answer and I don't mean to sound like I'm putting you off or that we have a secret... but his study will first expose the errors in the doctrines you have been given up to this point and then introduces you to the truth of the scriptures... namely that all will be saved... and exactly what Kat said above.  That will be the best way for you to understand.  Others may try to give you an answer here but you will miss so much without reading the study for yourself.

Otherwise, you won't understand the answers we give you anyway.  I have heard some people say these kind of comments seem insensitive or that they sound as if we are in an exclusive click or club.... that is not the case... it is just the truth.  Read Ray's paper on The Lake of Fire... and pray for understanding and a love for the truth.

Bobby
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: after judgment for non chosen?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2008, 02:44:27 AM »


Hi Tony,

I would have to agree with Bobby, the Truth comes from lots of study and pray and understanding a little at a time.

Isa 28:13  But the word of the LORD was to them,
       "Precept upon precept, precept upon precept,
       Line upon line, line upon line,
       Here a little, there a little,"

Anyone who really wants to gain a good understanding must be willing to study a lot.  Ray's papers gave me a great help in gaining so many truths from which to build on.  I now have more confidence in my Bible study.

The 'lake of fire' is judgment.

1Pe 4:17  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God.

But at the resurrection of the dead, they all will be cast into the lake of fire - judgment (Rev 20:15).  And all that go through the lake of fire will learn rightousness and be saved.

Isa 26:9  With my soul I have desired You in the night,
       Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early;
       For when Your judgments are in the earth,
       The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 02:47:10 AM by Kat »
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Chris R

  • Guest
Re: after judgment for non chosen?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2008, 08:26:11 AM »

Where do the non believer, sinners without repentance, evil people go
after they go through the lake of fire? Satan's home after the lake of fire?
Any scriptures? or was that them above?


Thanks kat and lisa for your reply.



Hello Tony,

Here is a verse that might help you begin your study

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. [Cor 3:15]

Once you realize that this "fire" is a metaphor, you will realize that this "lake of fire" is how men receive salvation.

Now...Instead of thinking WHAT is the lake of fire....Start thinking WHO is the lake of fire.

Just a hint to get you started reading

Peace

Chris R
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