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Author Topic: Ray on TV  (Read 9972 times)

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zander

  • Guest
Ray on TV
« on: May 15, 2006, 10:52:06 AM »

Ray wrote the following (below) as im sure yuo have read, to a reader.  What i dont understand is that Ray said he would debate this on national TV, but wouldnt debate it 1 on 1 with someone.  Whats the difference between debating 1 on1 to debating to a panel in front of the whole nation?  Anyone know what Ray meant?

No, I haven't been on any radio or TV talk shows. A producer from CNN News in Atlanta contacted me a few months ago and asked me to do a live Sunday morning show on "Christian Tithing." They read my tithing paper and wanted to see if the anyone could defend the Christian tithing doctrine against it. They wanted a "big" recognizable name in theology--I recommended Atlanta's own Creflo D$LLAR. Several agreed to come on their show to discuss Christian Tithing until they were told they would have to face me--I was told they all then changed their minds and remembered they had something else to do. I don't know if it will ever come around again. I would do something like that, but I will not debate a theology one on one. I might just as well try to catch snakes in the briar patch. Just read what is on our bible-truths.com site. It will keep you busy for a few years.

God be with you,

Ray
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shibboleth

  • Guest
Ray on TV
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2006, 11:06:00 AM »

I think I understand why Ray will not debate one on one. Ray has written so many articles ane e-mails explaining his beliefs. Many people who e-mail him with questions or rebuttals to his beliefs, haven't read his articles. Or, if they have, they didn't really read it, with their ears on and eyes open. If Ray were to debate one on one, he would only be talking to one person at a time. This can be very time consuming and probably fruitless. But, if Ray goes on CNN against some big name in Christiandom, then thousands of people will see it and maybe be converted, or at least given food for thought.
I was in a Church of Christ years ago and the preacher couldn't get one preacher in our area to debate him on any issue. The preachers in my town said Christians are not to debate. But my Bible says we are to contend for the faith and to avoid false doctrines.
I think it just has to do with Ray using his time wisely.
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zander

  • Guest
Ray on TV
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2006, 11:23:54 AM »

Thanks Shib.  I didnt get whether Ray wouldnt debate 1 on 1 on TV either.
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dogcombat

  • Guest
Ray on TV
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2006, 12:18:21 PM »

Actually, I found that many who ask Ray questions about his papers have SKIMMED over them as opposed to reading them.  Meaning they say only what they WANTED to see and didn't thoroughly give them serious thought.  By the way, I chuckled when Ray suggested CNN get Cashflow Hollar to debate him.  He's(Cashflow) living proof that if you get enough fools on your side you can get anywhere.

Ches
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ertsky

  • Guest
Ray on TV
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2006, 03:03:13 PM »

oh WOW! i just visited creflo's web site  :shock:

Quote
By no means is partnership just an avenue through which to raise finances. Instead, it involves a mutual exchange of faithfulness. Dr. Creflo A. Dollar and Taffi L. Dollar faithfully and actively pray on behalf of our Vision Partners daily. They declare the blessing—the empowerment to prosper and excel—on our Vision Partners. Vision Partners of this ministry have a right to connect to the anointing that is on this ministry so that they, too, can prosper spiritually, socially, mentally, physically, emotionally and financially.  


Quote
     Our Part:
    *
      Pray daily for God’s blessings to be on you
    *
      Study and diligently seek the Word of God
    *
      Minister to you monthly through a personal letter from Dr. Creflo A. Dollar
    *
      Furnish you with an official partner certificate
    *
      Periodically offer special gifts for your spiritual edification and growth
    *
      Provide quality customer service and products
    *
      Be good stewards and operate with integrity and excellence

      Your Part:
    *
      Attend meetings in your area
    *
      Always pray for Dr. Dollar, his family and Creflo Dollar Ministries
    *
      Contact us periodically within a two-year period
    *
      Actively strive to recruit new Vision Partners
    *
      Support us financially with your monthly pledge: "Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your accountâ€? (Philippians 4:17).



OH MAN PASS THE BARF BAG  ](*,)

the only account i can see growing here is the one creflo has with his bank :)

Rom 16:18  For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
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nightmare sasuke

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Re: Ray on TV
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2006, 05:28:54 PM »

Quote from: zander
Several agreed to come on their show to discuss Christian Tithing until they were told they would have to face me--I was told they all then changed their minds and remembered they had something else to do.


Haha!
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shibboleth

  • Guest
Ray on TV
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2006, 06:37:22 PM »

I would like to see Ray on Larry King and any other talk show in the country. I would like to hear Ray on the radio talk shows too. Maybe we could start a letter campaign or phon campaign to one of the talk shows to get Ray on.  Maybe if one show was bombarded for a few weeks, they would give it some thought. I could look into it if anyone is interested.

I know Christiandom won't change, but at least they could have the evidence and can't say they never heard the other side of scripture about tithing and salvation for all mankind.
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Becky

  • Guest
Ray on TV
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2006, 08:12:32 PM »

they'd kill him one way or another..... even if he was speking the truth.

at first I was against it.. because I personally am not ready to answer the world... But if God wants Ray (or anyone) to publicly speak the truth... then GOD BE WITH HIM! (and all of us who are prepared to give the reason for the hope that we have)

 [-o<
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Steve Crook

  • Guest
Ray on TV
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2006, 12:31:47 AM »

I'm telling you all right now, as you read these words, "You don't know what you are asking for". Well, there you have it, from my hands to your eyes. :P

When the 2 witnesses are laying in the street for all eyes to see, well,  time is short from that moment on. It already is short enough as it is. Pray all, and count the cost. The time IS at hand.

God Bless
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Sorin

  • Guest
Ray on TV
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2006, 01:44:06 AM »

Quote from: Isabell
Quote from: shibboleth
I would like to see Ray on Larry King and any other talk show in the country. I would like to hear Ray on the radio talk shows too. Maybe we could start a letter campaign or phon campaign to one of the talk shows to get Ray on.  Maybe if one show was bombarded for a few weeks, they would give it some thought. I could look into it if anyone is interested.


I'm interested!!  Like I said before, I would love to see (or hear) Ray on some talk show.  But do you really think there's enough of us to get him on, even if we all wrote/called?  And who would debate him?  He says they all backed out.



I'm interested as well. But like you said Isabell, who would debate him? I think getting Ray on Larry King or CNN would be alot easier than finding someone who will debate him. :lol:
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nightmare sasuke

  • Guest
Ray on TV
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2006, 01:46:48 AM »

Quote from: Sorin
Quote from: Isabell
Quote from: shibboleth
I would like to see Ray on Larry King and any other talk show in the country. I would like to hear Ray on the radio talk shows too. Maybe we could start a letter campaign or phon campaign to one of the talk shows to get Ray on.  Maybe if one show was bombarded for a few weeks, they would give it some thought. I could look into it if anyone is interested.


I'm interested!!  Like I said before, I would love to see (or hear) Ray on some talk show.  But do you really think there's enough of us to get him on, even if we all wrote/called?  And who would debate him?  He says they all backed out.



I'm interested as well. But like you said Isabell, who would debate him? I think getting Ray on Larry King or CNN would be alot easier than finding someone who will debate him. :lol:


I wanna see Ray on TV!!!! lol.
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lilitalienboi16

  • Guest
Ray on TV
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2006, 03:33:48 AM »

Quote from: Steve Crook
I'm telling you all right now, as you read these words, "You don't know what you are asking for". Well, there you have it, from my hands to your eyes. :P

When the 2 witnesses are laying in the street for all eyes to see, well,  time is short from that moment on. It already is short enough as it is. Pray all, and count the cost. The time IS at hand.

God Bless


Steve Crook can you explain to me what you just said.. thats to biblicaly symbolic for my dull spiritual eyes to understand at this moment... explanation?

Thanks! :D

P.S. Isn't this turning Ray into a sort of Idol? Just asking.. im probably wrong but okay! Peace!
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lilitalienboi16

  • Guest
Ray on TV
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2006, 03:35:32 AM »

Quote from: Becky
they'd kill him one way or another..... even if he was speking the truth.

at first I was against it.. because I personally am not ready to answer the world... But if God wants Ray (or anyone) to publicly speak the truth... then GOD BE WITH HIM! (and all of us who are prepared to give the reason for the hope that we have)

 [-o<


Remember Jesus said that when they bring you up to be questioned, do not worry about what you will say for the Holy Spirit will teach you at the time what to say :)

Hehe i always found that cool and im Glad Jesus is gonna be right there with us, speaking through us because i would surely stumble on my own.
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Bob Miller

  • Guest
Ray on TV
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2006, 01:00:28 AM »

Creflo Dollar:

The ministry's income is unavailable, but newspaper accounts say the ministry paid $18 million in cash for his new 8,000-seat World Changers Church International on the southern edge of Atlanta. He flies to speaking engagements across the nation and Europe in a $5 million private jet and drives a black Rolls-Royce. and travels in a $5 million private jet. Dollar's ministry became a focus of a court case involving boxer Evander Holyfield in 1999. The lawyer for Holyfield's ex-wife estimated that the fighter gave Dollar's ministry $7 million. Dollar refused to testify in the case. (St. Louis Post-Dispatch. STLtoday.com 11/18/2003)

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Mar. 5, 2000 says this

The Rev. Creflo Dollar Jr. has unabashedly embraced his name by building a religious empire on the message that his brand of piety leads to prosperity. He drives a black Rolls-Royce, flies to speaking engagements across the nation and Europe in a $5 million private jet and lives in a $1 million home behind iron gates in an upscale Atlanta neighborhood... The World Changers campus sits on a slight hill... Inside the church is a lobby befitting a five-star hotel. Chairs are scattered about on baby blue carpet thick enough to muffle the sound of the stadium-size crowd arriving for a Sunday service... There are no visible traditional Christian symbols - no cross, no image of Jesus, no stained-glass windows...Dollar lives in a $1 million home owned by the church in the Guilford Forest subdivision in southwest Atlanta. World Changers purchased another $1 million home on 27 acres in Fayette County in December. The church has amassed a fortune in real estate, mostly in College Park... As World Changers grew, so did Dollar's emphasis on prosperity. Dollar has no degree in theology. Much of his prosperity message, according to church and his family members, is based on the teachings of friend and spiritual mentor Kenneth Copeland... And a frequent criticism - that the church refuses to help nontithers - isn't true either, Lett said. Tithers simply "have priority," she said. People are not allowed to touch Dollar during services, she said, simply because "the anointing is flowing at that point." She said the church purchased a Rolls-Royce for Dollar's use because "he deserves the best."
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dcfreedom

  • Guest
Re: Ray on TV
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2006, 09:07:40 PM »

Paul told us that he defended the scriptures in the synagogue he did not debate them. i don't think Ray would debate with anyone. i think we use the word debate the wrong way. i think if he went on t.v. he would defend not debate. a debate is just like an argument which we are not to do.
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Brett

  • Guest
Re: Ray on TV
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2006, 12:38:45 AM »

I am not interesting Ray in T.V. or radio. His letters are the best. Why? DEAF.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Brett ::)
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a_child_of_God

  • Guest
Re: Ray on TV
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2006, 02:09:41 AM »

Amen to that Brett!!! Also, with having something to read, one can always go back and reread it anytime.

Ruth
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Chris R

  • Guest
Re: Ray on TV
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2006, 08:49:42 AM »

There are thousands of pages of material to explain just one premis, how much time do you think there would be on a T.V. show? 10 mins...15?...

Those never having read this site would undoubtedly be baffled by Ray's rebuttals..and due to time constraints, how much of Rays comments would be "edited"?

I think it wise he wouldnt do such a thing.

Chris R.

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mick24458

  • Guest
Re: Ray on TV
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2006, 09:09:23 PM »

I just find it very interesting that the debate is becoming more public - more people stating to ask questions and therfore more people likely to find answers.
In the congregation that I attend, many people are starting to ask questions and comments about the questioning are being made during the giving message.
If someone is asked to do a google search on the word "tithing" it is amazing how much stuff comes up to expose the non-scriptural basis of the tithe for Christians.
I wonder where this will go, especially in churches where there seems to be at least some sound desire to follow scripture, even if a little misunderstood. Centuries of error are hard to break down but there are those with a heart after the truth, even in denominational churches. ;D
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Slim

  • Guest
Re: Ray on TV
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2006, 05:58:46 PM »

I think most of the American public would not listen because they are not interested in spiritual topics. The ones who would listen would be seeking affirmation rather than listening with an open mind. Ray would be ignored or thought of as a heretic. It is probably a good thing for Ray that he does not go on tv. I firmly believe his message would not be recieved well. Traditions of men do not go away easily. People are not seeking a change nor do they seek the truth, furthermore they would not belive it when they see it. Our destiny (humankind) for the moment appears to be that we remain blind to the ways of God and the Bible. In his infinite wisdom, I have no doubt that God has ample reasons for this. But I would hate to see Ray besmirched and smeered by lesser men. I am glad that his work stands as it is, pristine in my opinion.
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