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Author Topic: Timothy  (Read 3765 times)

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EKnight

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Timothy
« on: July 16, 2008, 10:01:02 PM »

I read this from http://bible-truths.com/towers.htm

"This, know also, that IN THE LAST DAYS, perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent  [without self-control], fierce [brutal], despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady [reckless], high-minded [haughty], lovers of pleasures more than [rather than] lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away… EVER learning, and NEVER able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (II Tim. 3:1-7).

And at first I thought 'this describes my eldest child to a tee'  then I read it aloud to my husband and 17 year old daughter and asked them what does this sound like (and I had a thought in my mind other than my eldest), and my daughter answered "my generation", and that is the exact thought I had. 

I really do believe this.  Now, I know that other generations have been like this but not to this magnitude.  I hear my sisters and brother talk about their children (also of this young generation) and they all complain about these very same things that II Tim. 3:1-7 speaks of. 

Am I misinterpreting here?

Eileen

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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Timothy
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2008, 11:12:57 PM »

Not to be glib, but at my worst, this sounds like me.  There's nothing in that list that isn't or hasn't been a part of my flesh. 

It's great that your daughter sees this the way she does.  I hope it inspires her to be different.

It may be true that the generations are waxing worse and worse, but I can't be too proud of mine either (counting myself as a late baby-boomer).  Other than that, I am unable to answer in any end-time type of reasoning. 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

winner08

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Re: Timothy
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2008, 11:37:31 PM »

I do not beleive you are misinterpting anything. I do beleive this genration is worse than the one before and the one after will be worse than this one (if it is God's will to have another genaration). I do not think they will be many more gen. to come, but this is just my opinion.

                                    Darren
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Kat

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Re: Timothy
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2008, 12:44:56 AM »


Hi Eileen,

As we know, from the start man's "heart was only evil continually."

Gen 6:5  Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
What has occured to me is that people are not really getting worse, but there are just so many people.  Here is a chart that vividly makes this point.


http://www.people.eku.edu/ritchisong/317notes3.html

As of July 2008, the world's population is estimated to be just over 6.68 billion.  In the last few centuries, the number of people living on Earth has increased many times over. By the year 2000, there were 10 times as many people on Earth as there were 300 years ago. According to data from the CIA's 2007 factbook the world human population increased by 211,090 people every day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

I think the world is so much worse because there are so many people!

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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winner08

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Re: Timothy
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2008, 03:14:33 AM »

Thanks Kat: This just gave me another way of looking at this subject. Are people worse or does it just seem this way because there's more people on the earth?

                                   Darren
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WhoAmI

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Re: Timothy
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2008, 03:38:31 AM »

The "end times" thinking I have found is nothing but another Babylon mental trap. I had a man just today say to me that he is getting more religious because  he thinks the last days are here.  ???

Until a person can see that these things are found in themself and not something outside of them only, they will miss it.

Heb 1:2 has in THESE LAST DAYS spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;


Jeff
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David

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Re: Timothy
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2008, 06:51:39 AM »

I think its refering to every generation since it was written. In the last 2000 years there have been some pretty wicked times on the earth, not least now. Between 1850 and 1945 more people were killed in secular conflicts and regimes than every "religious" war put together in the last 2000 years.
I think these verses refer to us personally, but also to the whole world at any given time in history.
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Craig

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Re: Timothy
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2008, 08:39:48 AM »

Quote
Are people worse or does it just seem this way because there's more people on the earth?

It seems that way because of 24 hour news (ie CNN) and the internet.  A flea farts in China and the whole world knows it.

One evil person in California, reported by the news, and all of us think evil is all around us.  Around my region people are scared to let children out of our site.  When I grew up we would ride our bikes everywhere and be gone all day and into the evening and our parents wouldn't worry, now if they can't see you for 30 seconds they panic, but a little research in child abductions and disappearances show that it has remained relatively steady in our region for the last 70 years.

Evil is out there, it has always been.

Craig
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EKnight

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Re: Timothy
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2008, 07:50:32 PM »

Okay, so I hear some of you say the "end times" are babylonian and then I hear today is no different that any other time or evil has always existed and always will and then Kat says it's a result of increased population. 

Then what exactly is Timothy saying in this scripture? 

Personally, I think things are worse.  Never before was homosexuality, abortion, living together without the sanctity of marriage and divorce so accepted in this world or at least in this country as it is today.  It is much more prevalent in our media, movies and everyday interactions than ever before.  Don't take my word for it, ask your parents and your grandparents.  They will attest to the morality decline along with the turning away from God.  This generation is growing up with these atrocities and therefore accept them. 

So again, what dis Timothy saying?

Eileen
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Craig

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Re: Timothy
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2008, 08:58:08 PM »

Quote
So again, what dis Timothy saying?

I think Timothy is saying just what it says "IN THE LAST DAYS, perilous times shall come"

But the argument could be made as to when are "THE LAST DAYS" ?  Could it be now or 1000 years from now, or 10,000 years?  We all could give an opinion but we can only look for sure at the 70 years or so we live and maybe add 40-50 years for the elders in our family, and base our opinion on that.

Quote
Personally, I think things are worse.

Possibly, but I can't say for any certainty.

Quote
Never before was homosexuality, abortion, living together without the sanctity of marriage and divorce so accepted in this world or at least in this country as it is today.

In this country, I agree.  In the time of history after Christ??  I can't make this statement.  Renaissance Italy and Europe was full of homosexuality, and all the rest that Timothy speaks of.  Do a search on the Borgia family (one was even a Pope) and others from this time period.  You will see all the evils Timothy speaks of and then some spread throughout the civilized world.

So, what I'm saying is, we could speculate and try and guess end times and dates for the rest of our lives, but when is the "Last Days" for us?  It could be tonight on a drive to to grocery story or tomorrow with a sudden heart attack.  If that would happen, where does our thoughts lie?  Are we chasing after answers to what tomorrow might hold or are we striving to die to self and rid ourselves of the "Beast Within" now?

I'm like most of the rest here, I would like to know when, how, and where. But if all these questions were answered right here and now, what would it gain me?  What would it do to make me less and Christ more?  Would it make me more worthy to be elect and be with Christ in the kingdom age?  We will all have to answer these questions ourselves, I know I have a long way to go.

Blessings

Craig
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OBrenda

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Re: Timothy
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2008, 09:23:57 PM »

 ??? ??? ???
I don't know what to think either.  I guess it would be helpful if we knew at what point "The End Times" begin?
I bow out on that one, I'm having to unlearn my understanding of these "End Time" scriptures.  I have observed that the morality of our youth is declining, and it is true, it is getting much much worse.  I'm shocked just by the filthy language that even the young Girls spew out of their mouths!  Let alone the even bigger issues.

But then I am also amazed by watching the History Channel, how barbaric people use to be. Slaughtering whole villages even children.  I just can not comprehend this!  Thank God, at this time we don't have to live in a fortress to protect our selves from raiding murdering thieves.  And I won't even start on what the "Church" did to people who didn't believe the same.

Clearly Evil has always been here, and I certainly have been guilty of most of the sins that are listed.
What Kat said makes sense that if there is more people on the planet, more evil doesn't necessarily mean the percentage of evil is greater. So if the percentage of evil t is about the same, I understand your question what was Timothy's purpose in this scripture?
 :-\
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EKnight

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Re: Timothy
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2008, 10:23:55 PM »

Craig, I agree--I'm like most of the rest here, I would like to know when, how, and where. But if all these questions were answered right here and now, what would it gain me?

And if Timothy means exactly what it says, then why bother telling us if it is not important?

I truly am not being argumentative here, I'm just wondering.

Personally, I don't care when the end times are.  If I die today, I know God knows how much I am striving to be what he wants.  Therefore, I am not worried.  But if God said it in Timothy, there must be a reason.  No?

Eileen
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Timothy
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2008, 11:06:38 PM »

Eileen, Ray is sharing that the messages to the Churches in Asia are for ALL the churches and for all of us and for all time.  I think this is true of Timothy's prophecy.

It's not exactly accurate to say that seeing these things has not been of value to each generation since the beginning of the Gospel.  Every one of them has seen these things around them and each has produced those called out.

Do these signs point to the very last days?  I don't know.  There may well have been worse 'generations' and the one following this one may be 'better' than this one.  God will have to do a mighty work to make that happen, but the Roaring 20's in the US and decadence in Western Europe at the same time was reversed to a great degree by the worldwide depression and WWII.  Were morals 'really' better in the 40's?  For fullblown evil there, you had to look elsewhere...the Nazis and Militaristic Japanese, for example.  I think this passage describes the Nazis better than your daughter's friends.  History has some hope, even if man has none outside of Christ.

All I know for sure, is that these are MY last days.  That's all my plate will hold, I'm afraid.  If that's a sin, I'm guilty.

 

 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

EKnight

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Re: Timothy
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2008, 11:20:04 PM »

Eileen, Ray is sharing that the messages to the Churches in Asia are for ALL the churches and for all of us and for all time.  I think this is true of Timothy's prophecy.

It's not exactly accurate to say that seeing these things has not been of value to each generation since the beginning of the Gospel.  Every one of them has seen these things around them and each has produced those called out.

I clearly see your point Dave.

Eileen



 

 
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WhoAmI

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Re: Timothy
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2008, 03:36:13 AM »


 Craig I have to agree with you on some of those statements you made. There is much said and people hear it and repeat it and many think it is true. But research often proves it wrong and often times the complete opposite of what is being hailed on the news and in public. The news lies and loves hype and they create drama to draw people in. They are big business and they often actually help the "end times" teachings that the churches love to promote and teach. The "end times" that the churches teach is like a brother to the "hell" doctrine, it promotes fear and dependence on them. They have the answers to escape the coming calamities and such. It is big business in book sales and movies etc. 
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