There's no excuse

[winner08]

Hello people: The Bible makes it clear that through nature and conscience each person has some knowledge of God and sin for which he is accountable for. Thus, everyone knows if he is honest, that God exist. This is what I just read on a christian site. This makes me wonder what about people who has been born with mental disabilities and can not comprehend anything. Are they accountable for knowing God. Are they also held accountable for not believing in the Lord. would such a loving and caring God send these people to hell to burn forever and ever. YES, according to this christian site I just looked at. It never ceases to amaze me how far these so called Christians will go to further their cause. There's no excuse for not knowing God there is no innocent people. that's one more thing they pound in people.

                             Thanks,  

                                 Darren

[EKnight]

That's an interesting question Darren.  I know my sister who is "christian/Lutheran" believes that salvation comes from merely believing in Jesus Christ.  I recently asked her what happens to those who don't believe and her answer was that we don't know what is in their hearts at that final moment.  Good answer but weak and not scriptural.  I would like to know how Christians like her (not like the ones you mention) would say to those with mental retardation and babies who are born but live only a few short hours.  And then I would like to know where in the bible they got their answer (whatever the answer is).  As far as I can see, the only scriptural answer that is harmonious is that ALL will be saved. 

Eileen

[Paul]

I was recently browsing a fundamentalist forum (probably the most well-established one.) A lot of members there think babies — even babies who've died before they were born — go to Hell (there's a thread with a poll about this.) And a lot of members on this forum believe in a literal Hell.

[EKnight]

Paul, you don't mean this forum (BT) you meant the fundamentalist forum, correct?

And a lot of members on this forum believe in a literal Hell.

Eileen

[winner08]

Eileen let me tell you haw cold blooded some of these so called preachers are. A very good friend of mine her little brother died a long time ago and he drown. He was five or six at the time. At the grave site the preacher was giving his final words when one of the family asked was her little brother in heaven with Jesus. Well the preacher turns to the father of the bot and asked it the boy was baptised and the father said no. Then the preacher said to the family who were all listening to the conversation between the dad the little sister and the preacher and said I sorry I the boy was not baptised he is in purgatory. My friend said the dad had to be held back from kicking the @#$% out of this guy. Everytime I hear the word purgatory it sounds like a place the Catholics made up beecause they knew it would be too much for their followers to except(babies going to hell and burning). So put the babies at a weight station until God who knows all can make up his mine to what to do with these kids and babies. Man, It makes me sick to just think about theses people. Is that another sin I just committed man I just got up.


                                      Darren

[Paul]

Paul, you don't mean this forum (BT) you meant the fundamentalist forum, correct?

And a lot of members on this forum believe in a literal Hell.

Eileen

Yes!

[EKnight]

Yes Darren, purgatory is made up but purgatory is supposed to be where you go when you are not a big enough sinner to go to hell and it is LIMBO where unbaptized babies go.

Been there done that.   

Eileen

[winner08]

OK. Thanks I stand corrected.

            Darren

[musicman]

No, no, no!!!!

Kids do not go to hell.  I was watching one a them "Left Behind" paradies on TBN and all of the childrens below the age of say, 12, just vanished.  See, they wasn't old enough to be held responsible for all the bad things they done committed in their lives.  So for yall that aint childrens when the rapture comes, and you still sinners who aint payin yo tithes. . . . . . . .?












Tough crap!!!!

[winner08]

I wonder how much bad kids under 12 can do? Where do they vanish to? From what I understand and maby you can help me out on this Eileen. According to one of these groups if you don;t repent right before you die then you will go to hell. Is this correct, what I was told?

                                          Darren

                           

[David]

The whole "no excuse" doctrine, as far as I can tell from my experience derives from a gross misinterpretation of Rom 1:20. My Pastor used to quote this scripture as "scriptural proof" that no one can claim to "not know", so therefore there's "no excuse" for anyone. I asked him once if he thought Rom 1:20 was a reference to all of mankind, rather than a particular group Paul was referring to. He said he thought it meant all of mankind. So I asked him what he thought about Rom 1:18, particularly the last phrase "..who suppress the truth in unrighteousness." Surely in order to suppress the truth about something, you would have to have some knowledge of what that "truth" is? The rest of the chapter goes on to talk about foolish wisdom, the making and worshipping of idols, and ritualistic sexual abominations. Surely this is talking about people involved in pagan ritualistic worship? He insisted it meant everyone on earth, and insisted that everyone knew, and knows who God is. Yet in 1Thes 4:5, and 2Thes 1:8 Paul makes reference to Gentiles "that know not God". Most reference Bibles say that Romans was written around AD 57, Thessalonians around AD 51. I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that in the space of 6 years Paul had managed to circumnavigate the planet and preach the Gospel to everyone on earth. Christianity didn't reach many countires until centuries later.
Jesus made it quite clear in Luke 12:47-48 that there were and will be those that do not know the will of God.

Slightly off topic, but this really struck me yesterday so I'd like to share it. I was reading Micah and in the last part of verse 2, ch 5 it says "Who's goings forth are from old, from everlasting".....................how can you have an "everlasting" in the past tense? If the past is "everlasting", eternal and infinite, then the 1st sentence of scripture is a lie. In more modern translations it has it ..."from ancient times"....much better.
Obviously yet another attempt by the KJ theologians to insert this "eternity" nonsense into the Bible, because without it, their Hell doctrine falls.

[OBrenda]

My Pastor used to quote this scripture as "scriptural proof" that no one can claim to "not know", so therefore there's "no excuse" for anyone. I asked him once if he thought Rom 1:20 was a reference to all of mankind, rather than a particular group Paul was referring to. He said he thought it meant all of mankind. So I asked him what he thought about Rom 1:18, particularly the last phrase "..who suppress the truth in unrighteousness." Surely in order to suppress the truth about something, you would have to have some knowledge of what that "truth" is? The rest of

it quite clear in Luke 12:47-48 that there were and will be those that do not know the will of God.

David I also noticed that this describes people who know!

Luke 12:47-48
That servant who knew what his master wanted but didn't prepare himself or do what was wanted will receive a severe beating.But the servant who did things that deserved a beating without knowing it will receive a light beating. Much will be required from everyone to whom much has been given. But even more will be demanded from the one to whom much has been entrusted."

Romans 1:18
For God's wrath is being revealed from heaven against all the ungodliness and wickedness of those who in their wickedness
suppress the truth.  For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God himself has made it plain to them.

I also noticed in this that God's Wrath is against the ungodliness and wickedness "OF" those.
Not against "THOSE"!

Does this not further reveal to us that it is Sin that His wrath is torwards primarily and not individuals exclusively?

Just wondering, I could be wrong!
Brenda

[David]

My Pastor used to quote this scripture as "scriptural proof" that no one can claim to "not know", so therefore there's "no excuse" for anyone. I asked him once if he thought Rom 1:20 was a reference to all of mankind, rather than a particular group Paul was referring to. He said he thought it meant all of mankind. So I asked him what he thought about Rom 1:18, particularly the last phrase "..who suppress the truth in unrighteousness." Surely in order to suppress the truth about something, you would have to have some knowledge of what that "truth" is? The rest of

it quite clear in Luke 12:47-48 that there were and will be those that do not know the will of God.

David I also noticed that this describes people who know!

Luke 12:47-48
That servant who knew what his master wanted but didn't prepare himself or do what was wanted will receive a severe beating.But the servant who did things that deserved a beating without knowing it will receive a light beating. Much will be required from everyone to whom much has been given. But even more will be demanded from the one to whom much has been entrusted."

Romans 1:18
For God's wrath is being revealed from heaven against all the ungodliness and wickedness of those who in their wickedness
suppress the truth.  For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God himself has made it plain to them.

I also noticed in this that God's Wrath is against the ungodliness and wickedness "OF" those.
Not against "THOSE"!

Does this not further reveal to us that it is Sin that His wrath is torwards primarily and not individuals exclusively?

Just wondering, I could be wrong!
Brenda

I believe you are right on Brenda, God is no respector of persons. It is our sin He will burn out of us, its not us he hates (as the Church would have us believe, only a god filled with hate would burn people forever), it is our sin, and He will burn it away.