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[M_Oliver]

It is very refreshing to have found a group of people who
are blessed with understanding or are on their way to
understanding.  Thank you all.

I have a serious issue with the continued use of "soul" and
"spirit" in translation.

Can anyone explain why people who find so much truth by
examining the Hebrew and Greek to expose biased
translation continue to use "soul" and "spirit" when they
know the Hebrew and Greek mean breath, breathing, wind
current, a puff etc.?

Wasn't "soul" and "spirit" invented in Egypt's paganism?
What gives?  Too much truth?  I ask in sincerity.  God has
kept me on this subject for quite some time.

[hillsbororiver]

SOUL5315 (Hebrew)

H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

SOUL5590 (Greek)


G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants:

spirit7307 (Hebrew)

רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).

spirit4151 (Greek)


G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

This subject comes up time and again, usually from someone who is attempting to show us the error of our ways. They claim the use of "soul" denotes something inherent in man outside of or in addition to; body + breath (of life from God) = soul

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed5301 into his nostrils the breath5397 of life; and man became a living soul.5315

Breathed (Hebrew)

H5301
נפח
nâphach
naw-fakh'
A primitive root; to puff, in various applications (literally, to inflate, blow hard, scatter, kindle, expire; figuratively, to disesteem): - blow, breath, give up, cause to lose [life], seething, snuff.

Breath5397 (Hebrew)

H5397
נשׁמה
neshâmâh
nesh-aw-maw'
From H5395; a puff, that is, wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect or (concretely) an animal: - blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.


Breath4157 (Greek)

G4157
πνοή
pnoē
pno-ay'
From G4154; respiration, a breeze: - breath, wind.

[orion77]

Welcome to the forum, M_Oliver.

Its my understanding we have a body and a spirit, which combined is what makes us a soul.  Lot of people say we are three, body, spirit and soul to try and support their trinity doctrine.  

God bless,

Gary

[lilitalienboi16]

Welcome to the forum, M_Oliver.

Its my understanding we have a body and a spirit, which combined is what makes us a soul.  Lot of people say we are three, body, spirit and soul to try and support their trinity doctrine.  

God bless,

Gary

Welcome abord M_oliver, i hope you take the time to read alll the articles posted on this site, and God willing Grow in the Spiritual Truth that has been granted to all of us, Praise God He is amazing

I can give an Amen to that Gary!

Body and Breath of life (Spirit) = SOUL!

The Body Dies = Soul dead. SPirit returns to God (Breath of Life returns to God because Body died obviously.)

[eutychus]

Body and Breath of life (Spirit) = SOUL!


 when is a body a body? at conception? when does God breath into a fetus?

 when does she soul come alive? at conception or at first breath?

 when does the spirit enter into a body? at conception?

[Steve Crook]

1Ti 6:1-8
(1)  Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
(2)  And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
(3)  If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
(4)  He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings.
(5)  Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
(6)  But godliness with contentment is great gain.
(7)  For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
(8 )  And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
2Ti 2:23-26
(23)  But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do engender strifes.
(24)  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
(25)  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
(26)  And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

[eutychus]

1Ti 6:1-8
(1)  Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
(2)  And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
(3)  If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
(4)  He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings.
(5)  Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
(6)  But godliness with contentment is great gain.
(7)  For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
(8 )  And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
2Ti 2:23-26
(23)  But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do engender strifes.
(24)  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
(25)  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
(26)  And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

why dont you just say what you mean?

[eutychus]

Again this is a legit questiopn poses for you all.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed5301 into his nostrils the breath5397 of life; and man became a living soul.5315


 at what point did God breath into you and you became a living soul??

 or was this act in gen. a one time thing that was passed on to the human race??

 thanks
chuckt

[Lightseeker]

Body and Breath of life (Spirit) = SOUL!


 when is a body a body? at conception? when does God breath into a fetus?

 when does she soul come alive? at conception or at first breath?

 when does the spirit enter into a body? at conception?

Great question Euty,

It's also the one which was answered and influenced Bill Clinton to endorse abortion.  He was taught that there is a difference between respiration and breathing...which there is.  The lungs are not functioning in the womb.  And cellular respiration is via the mother's blood supply.  Therefore a fetus is not a breathing creature...until it draws breath at birth.
 
As far as when does the spirit enter the body???

[RSV] ECC 11:5  As you do not know how the spirit comes to the bones in the womb of a woman with child, so you do not know the work of God who makes everything.  

I've only found this explanation in the RSV translation.  I especially like that last part about how we don't know the work of God...nearly as well as we think IMO.

Exodus also seems to place a different value on the "life" of a fetus versus that of a birthed child, at least in the RSV again.  If only a miscarriage takes place there is a fine.  But if the mother dies...then it is a life for a life.

EXO 21:22  "When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.23  If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,

[Laren]

I find this interesting, not sure if it really means anything in regards to this thread

 


 Luk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

[chrissiela]

well... I gave you my answer already but will go ahead and post it here...

 I don’t think that is has anything to do with the ‘air’ (or breath) that we take at birth… but it has to do with His spirit (not the spirit of Christ, but the spirit which gives us life that comes from the Father) that He puts in us to make us a ‘living soul’….

When does that happen?? I don’t know…. But I would GUESS at conception…. When the body has begun to ‘form’ in the womb….. it seems to me that the fetus is ‘alive’ even before actual birth… BEFORE taking a breath of air… it is considered 'viable' even before considered 'full-term'... and responds to outside stimuli, etc, even while in the womb....

Chrissie

[eutychus]

[[RSV] ECC 11:5  As you do not know how the spirit comes to the bones in the womb of a woman with child, so you do not know the work of God who makes everything.  

 WONDERFULL , GREAT WORK, I WAS HOPING SOMEONE WOULD POST ECC.

 EXCELLENT JOB!!!

 LOVE
CHUCKT

[eutychus]

THREAD COMES ALIVE, I LOVE IT.

 all life is from god and its a wonderfull gift!

i beleive Eve being the mother of all living has different levels.

 ie, human race and in whom Christ would come.

  while we can understand it perfectly no doubt conception is
 life.

 peace
thanks everyone
chuckt

[Daniel]

I find this interesting, not sure if it really means anything in regards to this thread

 


 Luk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Hi Laren great verse I found another for John to add. A couple more too elsewhere, one of Jesus too.

Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Eccles 11:5 As thou knowest not what [is] the way of the spirit, [nor] how the bones [do grow] in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.


LLuke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.


Daniel

[Andy_MI]

These verses in Jeremiah came to my mind:

Jer 1:4  Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Jer 1:5  Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Love in Christ,

Andy

[Daniel]

:oops:  Sorry Chuck I was typing my page and did not realize you posted the same verse of scripture

Daniel

[Sorin]

well... I gave you my answer already but will go ahead and post it here...

 I don’t think that is has anything to do with the ‘air’ (or breath) that we take at birth… but it has to do with His spirit (not the spirit of Christ, but the spirit which gives us life that comes from the Father) that He puts in us to make us a ‘living soul’….

When does that happen?? I don’t know…. But I would GUESS at conception…. When the body has begun to ‘form’ in the womb….. it seems to me that the fetus is ‘alive’ even before actual birth… BEFORE taking a breath of air… it is considered 'viable' even before considered 'full-term'... and responds to outside stimuli, etc, even while in the womb....

Chrissie

Exactly! I agree because God created Adam from the dust of the ground, and it was not until He breathed into his nostrils the breathe of life that he became a living soul. so a baby is a "living soul" even inside his mother's womb. It needs to feed, and everything otherwise it'll die. therefore, alive.

I mean am I right on this, or am I a heretic?
Sorin

[Lightseeker]

Good imput guys.  Verses I've never been taught or thought of before concerning this subject.

[chrissiela]

Also in keeping with the fact that it is Godo who opens and closes the womb to begin with... so even conception is at the will of God.

Chrissie

[hillsbororiver]

Hello M, I did not accuse you of having any ulterior motive if I gave that impression I apologize. My point was that we do not ascribe to the "soul" as being anything other than body (formed of clay by God) + spirit (breathed by God) = a living soul.

I did mention that this subject comes up time after time, and it is usually by someone who believes in an immortal soul or the trinity doctrine or both.

I was only attempting to answer what I thought was your question.

Again, my apologies.

Joe