> General Discussions
Why "Soul" and "Spirit"?
Daniel:
--- Quote from: gmik ---Hi. I have read this entire thread several times. M. Oliver asks a question. We got off on tangents with babies and then M.Oliver asks again why don't we see it. Here is what I don't see. If Genesis is really meaning "alive breathing" not "living soul" What does that ultimately mean? M. Oliver I don't know the point but would like to know where you are headed. Others of you I don't understand getting upset or personal. I don't want this to get locked before I see what would be the big difference between alive breathing and soul. I am sincere. M. Oliver your first post was happy and your last post seemed exasperated. Shouldn't we leave Strong's alone and go to the interlinear or e sword?
--- End quote ---
Excellent point gmik :shock: Is this speaking of spiritual truths between both the creature and the new creature or physical truths? Obviously the dead can burry the dead, and the dead were physically alive.
Gmik do you have a link to those reccomendations of yours?
Thanks
Daniel
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Daniel ---Thank you hillsbororiver, you even made a bit more sense of M_Oliver's thoughts I believe.
One is "the creature" and the other a "new creature".
"The creature" is subject to vanity (or corruption) and the other (new creature) liberated in Christ who is not corruptible? To be clothed in Christ?
spirit of man verses Spirit of God, the natural man cannot receive?
I need more spirit studies
Daniel
--- End quote ---
You are very welcome Daniel. If I can be of any help just ask and I will at least give an honest effort.
Gena, I admit to being thick at times and my wife would concur to that as well, I did not get what M Oliver's point was at first, he is right the word soul has neither a Hebrew or Greek root or Latin either for that matter, it has Middle Ages English as it's grandaddy.
Joe
chrissiela:
--- Quote from: M_Oliver ---Not one of you is understanding my point at all. I am truly puzzled as to why I can see this as clear as day while even Ray blows right by it.
Thank you Joe for posting some of Ray's material so I can demonstrate. Do not mistake. I respect Ray greatly. God has used him to show me much. I am not picking a fight with him or anyone here. I am trying to shine some light on this lie.
From "DR. STRONG'S USE OF CONTRADICTIONS AND SQUARE CIRCLES"
QUOTE: "In the Hebrew Scriptures, soul is translated from, H5315 nephesh = neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature"
If "nephesh" PROPERLY MEANS a breathing creature WHERE do you get "SOUL" from? Do not dare tell me to ADD the breath of life + the body to = soul or some other stupid equation unless you can prove it with scripture. I'll tell you right now you cannot unless you 'ADD TO THE BOOK.'
QUOTE: "Say, did you catch that one word Dr. Strong used to define the soul—nephesh?"
Yes I did. If it PROPERLY MEANS a breathing creature WHY is it translated soul? WHY?
QUOTE: "And so, what kind of a "living soul" did Adam become?"
He DIDN'T become a "living soul". He became ALIVE[chay-2416] BREATHING[nephesh-5315] OR He became ALIVE, a BREATHING CREATURE. Either translation is much more accurate than "soul". Soul is not in the Hebrew!
Is that so hard to understand? The Hebrew DOES NOT say that Adam became a "living soul". Am I really the only one here who can see this?
--- End quote ---
I see your point, but I don't see the problem??
"Soul" is not in the Hebrew?
Neither are any of the other English words in the English translations of the scriptures.... the Greek and Hebrew words are translated into English (and any of a number of other languages).
If the English word "soul" means "a breathing creature" and the Hebrew word nephesh means "a breathing creature".... then what is the problem exactly?
From webster.com
Main Entry: 1soul
Pronunciation: 'sOl
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English soule, from Old English sAwol; akin to Old High German sEula soul
1 : the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life
2 a : the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings, or the universe b capitalized, Christian Science : GOD 1b
3 : a person's total self
4 a : an active or essential part b : a moving spirit : LEADER
5 a : the moral and emotional nature of human beings b : the quality that arouses emotion and sentiment c : spiritual or moral force : FERVOR
6 : PERSON
7 : EXEMPLIFICATION, PERSONIFICATION <she is the soul of integrity>
8 a : a strong positive feeling (as of intense sensitivity and emotional fervor) conveyed especially by black American performers b : NEGRITUDE c : SOUL MUSIC d : SOUL FOOD e : SOUL BROTHER
It doesn't exactly define it in English as "a breathing creature" but it certainly defines it as the person as a whole (which would certainly include a body and a spirit, would it not?) and that which 'animates' or gives 'force' to us.
So seeing that the body and the spirit together creates "a breathing creature" (termed, in english, as a "soul"). So I am just not seeing what the problem is???
Are you saying that the terms soul and spirit are interchangeable? Is the problem what you said about the "soul" being a term derived from "Egyptian paganism" or something?
Call me dumb... :lol: :lol: :lol: but I, for one, am still not understanding what you are asking or what the problem is.... even though I do believe that I understand your point. But maybe I am just fooling myself on that one, too. :oops: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Chrissie
gmik:
Daniel. Maybe someone else will give you the links. But I think you can just type in e-sword and download it and then do interlinear scripture analyzer. They are on my desktop so when I open them I don't see an address.
Joe. I have read most of your posts and know for sure you are NOT thick headed! :D
chrissiela:
Sorry... I 'overposted' about 7 posts there :oops: ..... but I still do not see the "lie". :cry:
Chrissie
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