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Kicked out?

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Becky:

--- Quote ---Hi Ray!

What a blessing your site is. Every piece of truth is another building block towards freedom in Christ! If/when you have time I would like to hear your Scriptural views on returning to the church, after God has called us out. I've been out of the church for 3 years, and suddenly I seem to feel the call to return. Although I disagree with most everything they believe and teach, I can't seem to get past Matthew 5:14-16, "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."

It seems to me that throughout the 5th chapter of Matthew Jesus is calling us to love those who don't love us, or agree with us. Can His light in me be seen by these people? I doubt that it can. Would you agree that Jesus' light was the brightest of them all? Yet how many saw God's light in Him? Only those who God chose, right? Very few. If these people can't see the truth in the Scriptures, and apparently God has sent a strong delusion so they would believe a lie, am I working against God when I share the truth with them?

Am I wrong to think that God called Paul out of the church, gave/taught him new understanding of the Scriptures, and then sent him back into the church. Isn't this a Scriptural pattern? Couldn't the same be said about all of the disciples (save Luke who was a gentile)? They were called out of the church by Jesus, given new understanding of the Scriptures and sent back into the church. Even Jesus was called out (into the wilderness), set-apart unto God, needless to say taught new things and then sent back, right?

Amos said, "Can two walk together unless they are agreed?" Can they? I know it's very, very hard! Even if they can walk together in complete disagreement over everything, how long can it continue for?

Ray, do you think I can sit in a congregation of people and listen to them belittle God, with their ridiculous preconceived ideas and erroneous beliefs, all the while keeping my mouth shut, and still have peace? I would gladly sacrifice my peace if God could be glorified in my silent attendance.

A myriad of ridiculous questions I suppose. Sorry if I've wasted your valuable time. I'll understand if you don't reply.

God bless your ministry, Ray!

Richard


Dear Richard:
You have a lot of complicated questions/statements/issues that could take days to untangle and answer. God does not call us BACK into the church that He calls us out of. There are the called and the chosen few--they are both part of God's Church, but the chosen come out of the part of God's Church which is called Mystery Mabylon the Great.

Why if you don't agree with virtually anything that is taught, would you ever want to return? You know what the Scriptures say about a dog returning to his own vomit? And "touch not the unclean thing," etc.

Of course people saw the light of Christ, it's just that they didn't comprehend it. He was a witness AGAINST most of them, as we are a witness AGAINST the carnal church today. My message is not to convince the Church of her wrong ways, but rather to witness against her. She will not change except through severe judgment.

You mention being a light. Have you ever noticed that a light does not make very much noise? Not everyone is called to teach and preach (See I Cor. 12:29). We are to let people see our light and our good works, not our clever arguments against their doctrines. Do not cast your pearls of God's Truths to the dogs and the pigs who do not want them.
God be with you,
Ray

PS Be sure to read my upcoming paper: "WINNING SOULS FOR JESUS--Another Christian Heresy."
--- End quote ---
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I have had trouble with this concept of being kicked out of the church.
I left my church a while ago.
They did not "kick me out"
Was I supposed to stay until they did?
I dont think I'm supposed to go back and let them am I?
My husband is waiting for me to "come around" so he can be social again in a church..... what if I never go back?  He'll blame his not going on me.
We don't have kids..... if and when we do this issue will be hard.
I know I'm concerned about things that will be taken care of, but I'm scared.

Becky

shibboleth:
I wasn't "kicked out" of any church I belonged to either. One of the reasons I wasn't, is because I didn't see many of the truths I now believe in until I finally left all denominational churches.

I saw many of the contradictions taught in church and I asked lots of questions, but felt the church leaders were trying to avoid my heartfelt and sincere questions. But every church I left was because of doctrinal issues or worship patterns. I left one church because they were only concerned with works and getting the holy spirit to do things. Another church I left because of their false creedal beliefs. God slowly took me out of organized church.

I will tell you one thing, if I ever went back to organized church, and told them what I really believe, I would be thrown out. Or they would at least ask me to keep my mouth shut. But I know I couldn't keep my mouth shut, so I won't go to church and listen to false doctrine and be told I have to pay for it with my tithes and offerings.

I pray your husband sees the light before you have children. My husband has no interest in church and my kids weren't raised in any denomimation. I was in and out of church their growing up years. Now I look back and see how God used all these denominations to prune me and show me his truth. Contrast between good and evil, truth and lies, light and dark, the real Jesus and the fake Jesus.

If you go back to church, you will have to keep quiet when everything inside of you will say this is not right. Being misunderstood is part of the price we pay to be elect.

orion77:
Becky, I can understand what you are going through.  Just last year they opened a new babtist church close to home.  Now my wife and lots of her family have been attending this church.  Some of them have asked why I will not attend.  Then I show them with scripture and share of my own experiences and now some of them are questioning this church, and lots of the family are blaming me for this.

So be it, I simply will not go to some building and listen to someone falsely accuse Gods name and character and then sing songs in joy about it.  Not me, no way.  Although I know these people have good intentions, but they are deceived.  Until God opens their eyes, they will refuse to see.

Its like when God miraculously delivered the Israelites out of Egypt, most of them wanted to go back.

(Num 14:3)  And wherefore doth Jehovah bring us unto this land, to fall by the sword? Our wives and our little ones will be a prey: were it not better for us to return into Egypt?

(Num 14:4)  And they said one to another, Let us make a captain, and let us return into Egypt.



We know if we return to Egypt, they will devour us like wolves.  Would the pharoh of egypt of been good to the Israelites if they returned?  When I go to a church and question their teachings, what happens?  Press forward, cross the river Jordan into the Promised land.  

I know it's easier said than done.  Dying daily, being crucified with the Lord, physically is not easy.  We have His Spirit in us, the spiritual truths far outweigh the physical lies they preach.  

You are not alone, Becky.  This forum has been a huge blessing to me, to finally see there are others with simular experiences.  My prayers are with you.

God bless,

Gary

Becky:
thanks for your replies!  That makes me feel better knowing I don't have to physically be kicked out... but I guess I was shunned by those who didn't like all my questions and concerns for the traditions of the church.

My husband has somewhat listened to my earlier excited discussions on all of this (and now I have let the "preaching phase" go) and he tried telling me that if i were to be kicked out, to go and then they would kick me out.  He said I wouldn't reach anyone if I believed I knew some truths if I just kept it to myself.  It's not about witnessing like the old church thinks right?  Ray said he was doing a new paper on "winning souls for christ" (or something like that).  I can't wait to read it.

My husband must think I am self righteous to think all the churches are speaking lies and that I am the only one who sees the truth (according to him).

Boy o boy was Paul right when he said we'd be persecuted... I always imagined physical persecution (which could also be the case)... but the "enemy" being in my own mind and my own family is so much more difficult (and effective: when it comes to deceiving us) than I could have imagined!

gmik:
Hi Becky.....I was never kicked out of a church....Started out baptist, got bored but as I was reading the Bible realized they were missing a few things IMO....then went Lutheran-even got baptized (with all the little ones!) :lol: It was there that I realized I had to get out of churchianity-didn't really know about Babylon but knew that what I was reading in the Bible was not what was going on there....So went into the pentecostal/charismatic/faith/prosperity thing.  They were NON denominational so I had definetly left mainline Christianity-I thought.  After awhile went into home bible studies-we knew it all better than anyone else! :o  Now, since I stumbled onto Ray and Mike I really feel like I am finally out....except that I went to church on Mothers Day to be with my family- There is about 3,000 people there so I just sat and read my notes from Ray's teachings.  Songs were fine and it was a feel good message for mom's. I don't feel any compulsion to say a word, even  if I could,  or tell anybody anything.

As a mom and grandma, it took years of praying to get everyone excited about the Lord and involved in church!  And the irony is that now I have to pray that they all leave it behind! My kids will ask once in awhile what more I have been learning "at that site you are always on" they will agree with me But I see no searching yet.

Anyhoo, didn't want to prattle on, but I feel I have left Babylon, but if I walk into a building once in awhile for my family, I don't feel I have gone back into it.  Besides, we do God's will no matter what.

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