Mockery of the cross

[Firefly]

Hi everybody...

I had an interesting day at work today. My boss who is a christian asked me what my husband and I do or believe about easter now. I said that we think it was originally a pagan holiday that christians have changed to represent Jesus's reserection. She said well you don't believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose on the third day. I said..that's not true...I never said that. (I have more words put in my mouth) Then she said that Jesus told the one thief that he would be in paradise with Him so that proved that the other one would not be in heaven. I said just because it is not recorded what he said to the other thief it does not prove or disprove anything. Then we went back and forth about how He did die for everyone but you have to make the choice...blah, blah, blah...I started to shake and my heart was pounding. She said I was not a christian like her and another coworker and I should not even call myself a christian. Then she accused me of being a universalist and I said I was not one...and then she said that I think you can do whatever you want and it doesn't matter...Once again I never said that either. Then she said I make a mockery of the cross (I guess because I believe God will eventually save everyone) and I said she made a mockery of it by saying that Jesus can't save everyone. Then she asked me what I thought would happen to the devil..I said I am not even going there..she said something like see you have loose ends you can't explain (I was really thinking I can't tell her I believe God will purge and refine the devil too (although I do not have scripture for this...do any of you know of two)...I kept thinking you can't handle the truth...that great line from whatever movie)...then she said I said that I did not believe in the devil...once again I never said that...I then remembered Susan's good advice (a little too late) and I said, I don't want to talk with you about this any more. I then got called away...(thank you God) and when I came back I was still kind of shaking...she came over and hugged me and said something (I don't remember what) and I said I love you...

she also accused me of having evil spirits/demons in me (not in so many words)....being in a cult...having no fellowship etc.

I tried to explain to her that I understood what she was thinking (she said I did not understand)

From her point of view she thinks I am deceived and she is really worried that I am wrong and or going to hell and that God is going to be furious with me. I actually feel bad that she is so upset for me about this. But I tried to explain to her that if she felt God specifically told or showed her something could she go against it. Then she told me it wasn't about feelings...I just can't win. I know she can not see anything unless God shows her the truth...but it just makes work extra fun...NOT....like it isn't stressful enough....(I am a nurse).
I just don't like upsetting people...I know I can't deny these truths God has shown me but I just needed to vent a little and I know you all probably have been through similar situations. Thanks for listening/reading. Lori 
PS..when I get into these heated conversations where I feel attacked I can't even remember my name!

[Kat]

Hi Lori,

Rough day 
Take it as a good sign 

2Ti 3:12  Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,

Mat 5:10  "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Here are the scripture that I think will show Christ will save Satan.

Col 1:20  And through Him having made peace through the blood of His cross, it pleased the Father to reconcile all things to Himself through Him, whether the things on earth or the things in Heaven.

Eph 1:9  having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
Eph 1:10  that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him.

And another thing Satan will be cast into the Lake of Fire, that is judgment.

Rev 20:10  And the Devil who deceived them was cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were . And he will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Hope this help 

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello LoriMarie

thank you for sharing that! It really gives insight as to what the blind "see".

It was Jack Nicholson who said "YOU CAN;t HANDLE THE TRUTH!" Brilliant hey!

Anyway, I just wanted to thank you and I have no point to make but to say THANKYOU and let us remember they can not handle the truth not in a sarcastic or prideful boastful way but in a cautionary way that says....handle with care....explosive material...highly volatile!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Redbird]

Dear LoriMarie,

Like Kat says, that is a good sign, because the closer you get to God, the more you will be tested.  Stand strong in the Lord my dear sister, and remember..... sometimes silence is golden.

Thes 3:11-13  For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.  Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.  But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.

Love in Christ, Lisa

[Rene]

Hi Lori,

My heart goes out to you.  I know it can be a nerve-racking experience trying to defend the truth to someone who is blind, especially when that person is pitying you and trying to "save" your soul from damnation.  I try to avoid such conversations as often as possible, but then I feel like a coward when I refuse to allow the debate to begin.  I am encouraged by your strength to stand up for the truth.  Thanks for sharing.

Peace and HIs grace to you,

Rene'

[PKnowler]

Hi Lori,

   I feel for you! I have tried to avoid those kind of confrontations myself. What's the point of sharing with someone who is blind and doesn't care to understand your beliefs. It's different if someone is inquiring because they want to know rather than talking to someone who is trying to convert you to save your soul from Hell. That would be nerve wracking! Although it was just a test. We are all being tested in the fire of affliction. See, I have refined you, though not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction. Isa 48:10
   
It was nice talking with you today! I think it would be great if our sons could be pen pals.

Bless you! 
~Paula

[CDJ]

Hi Lori,

Although I'm talking to people, there's a good few people I'm avoiding (cowardly) regarding the Truths we learn. My boss is an ordained minister in his spare time, a recovered alcoholic for 20 years now and a hard man at that. I asked him once, how could we get the concept of "hell" so wrong, after centuries and centuries of Bible reading? His reply was "You are asking highly theological questions, which only great God's men could answer. Just believe." ... Well, since then, we haven't talked about it.

One friend asked me to stop sending emails regarding these matters - previously (before the Truth) everything I said about the Bible was 'respected' by all. Another friend sums up the situation as just 'another opinion'.

Yet another close friend is trying to pshycologically analyse me, because I seem to have a dark spot. I told this person that I'm actually very content, knowing what this dark spot is and knowing/trusting that all will work out for good, whatever bad may happen. I told this person, that I'm sick and tired of opinions made out to be truths, and that I believe in 1 Truth and 1 Truth only - not 15 000 different opinions.

The other day I saw on some software I have, a piece regarding some commentaries on Revelations, and the title read :"Revelations, 4 views". Four different guys, all who 'walk' with Christ, having 4 different views on Revelations. When you point stuff like that out to people, no-one finds anything wrong with it. Exactly like Arcturus said "...It really gives insight as to what the blind "see"..."

Kat shared a powerful little Scripture...
Col 1:20  "...And through Him having made peace through the blood of His cross, it pleased the Father to reconcile all things to Himself through Him, whether the things on earth or the things in Heaven..."
...If you lived 2000 years ago, and you told people that Satan will be reconciled, I think you'd be stoned in a second. In today's world, you'd be chased away like a dog, but remember, those chasing you away like a dog, shouts "God is Love" and "Love your enemies" and in the same breath they are very comfortable with a deity punishing all men forever and calling it justice, in the name of love. Every action has a reaction, so what exactly is the reaction of going to hell forever. Like Ray says "You discipline someone to correct that someone, not forever."

May your heart be at peace, because all works out for the good.

Regards
CDJ :-)

[hebrewroots98]

Sweet Lori,
Yes, you did remember too late (I have done the same thing and I am sure I will continue to not use caution at times, but, God knows our hearts )   (...where is the index card that we spoke about keeping in your scrubs pocket while always at work re: telling others that you do not have to discuss religious matters with them ...especially when you know that they are just trying to use them against you and that they are not truly searching for the truth, as well as knowing that you will be throwing the pearls before the swine or that you don't want to talk of such a serious issues while at the workplace.  Sometimes it helps to just tell them that you believe in Jesus, the Son of God and that anything beyond that are your personal religious beliefs and that you will not discuss them so as to not create an argument) ...(I know sis, it is VERY hard to not want to share what you know and to not let them corner you with their manipulative hearts

Also, remember that the story of the theif on the cross and paradise stuff is a PARABLE AND A FABLE...it is not to be discerned physically as so many interpret it to be )  (That was a compliment that she had noticed that you were not a 'christian'. )

Don't let them see you sweat b/dc they love to know that they can rowl you up.  Just show them your peace and then they will see Christ through your peace and joy   Who needs enemies when you have friends like that?  she didn't mind upsetting yu, and sometimes the other person may need to get upset in order to get them to think about what they are believing with 'truth'.  (God knows that your heart isn't to see her squirm; as hers is for you probably.)  I know that all of us here were most likey upset -at least for a split moment, if not longer- at the thought that we were wrong for all of these years about our false doctrines. (

...OUR FIGHT IS NOT AGAINST THE FLESH AND BLOOD, BUT AGAINST SATAN.)  

Just remember that while your'e in the heat of things that satan wants you to forget your name and who you belong to , but you are Christs and his NEW CREATION as well as HIS representative of TRUTH down here!  I am really proud of you for having the heart to want to show them the truth.

Yes that is one of my all time favorite sayings (from that movie w/ Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson)..."YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH, BOY..."

It is good to see you

[Firefly]

Hi Everyone...

Thank you all for your support and kind words. The encouragement really helps.

Kat...thanks for the scriptures and the kind words...all has to mean all and nothing less....thanks!

Arcturus...Yes..it was Jack Nicholson...I think Ray quoted this line in one of his papers!

Lisa, Rene', Paula and CDJ...thank you all for your kind words, encouragement, stories some of you shared...it really helps to have support of Brother's and Sister's in Christ. I am so thankful God sent me here.

and Susan...I remembered about 15 minutes too late!  Thanks for your words...they are precious. I will call you soon.

Lori 

[dogcombat]

The film the Nicholson quote was in was "A Few Good Men".  Kinda sums up the faith the Son Of Man will find when he returns.  This kind of conversation happened to me a month ago, the boss was highly opinionated (though not of Scriptural things but rather of Earthly things like politics), and I just let him vent after pointing out a few errors of his thought.  Then again, I stepped back and remembered I was there to work the job (training dogs to hunt) not get worked up on the job about such political nonsense.

Sometimes one has to withdraw from such conversations and be content not to be conformed to the image of this world when they occur.  I was supposed to help out with him today, but he didn't need my help.  When that occurs I realize that God had something better for me to do today.

God be with you
Ches

[CEO]

LORI

     My reply to those questions is ' It makes you mad that I say you are going to heaven ?'

                                                 Askseeknock

                                                  Charlie O

[hebrewroots98]

CHARLIE, EXCELLENT COME BACK; I'LL TRY THAT ONE NEXT TIME.

[DWIGHT]

Hey Ches,

Now I know what dogcombat is!

Dwight

[Ward]

Lori:

Obviously, many have already given you some comfort regarding what happened that day... 
I thought instead of doing that I should simply remind you of what you really went thru that day... 

You went thru one of those trials that Christ Jesus told us we would go thru. 

Remember what was said in the message/post here entitled "What trials?" http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3989.0.html 

Of course the apostles went thru normal day-in day out trials...  We all do, our position as a member of "the sea," "the Many Called," or "the Elect" makes no difference.  The real difference is what we all know, that we have been given eyes that see and ears that hear.  The woman you were speaking with that day has not.  (Pray that will change...)

We tend to think of the apostles' trials as their horrible deaths or the many horrible things that the blind and deaf may have done to them...  Not to demean the agony of those acts, but that isn't all they went thru.  The regularly went thru what you described.  Probably each and everyday.  Be glad that you have come thru it.  Could you have done better?  Of course.  When it happens again, you will...

Remeber Christ Jesus said, "Whosoever, therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also, before my Father which is in heaven." (Mat 10:32)  I don't believe that ment only confessing that you believe in his existence etc., but that you also confess what he has given to you, eyes that see & ears that hear.  And also what you have seen and heard with those gifts.  And not just to the members of the sea, but also to the Many Called.

That day...  You did not run away.  You did not clam up.  You spoke the truth.  I'm quite certain that these words were also spoken that day, "Well Done my Child.  And you will do even better yet."

Just my thoughts to ponder... 
\/\/ard

[Deborah-Leigh]

Beautiful truthful thoughts to ponder Ward. Thank you!

We also "confess" Him in how we live. This Scripture came to my mind...

Ephesians 5 10 And try to  learn in your experience what is pleasing to the Lord, let your lives be constant proofs of what is most acceptable to Him.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Firefly]

Thank you both for those scriptures and Ward I know that you are right. It is funny that I never felt persecuted for what I believe before. I think I can honestly say it has only been the last few months that I feel I have experienced it. I know that God has so much work left to do in me, I guess it is exciting and scary at the same time to see Him working!

I read these scripture the other day...

25These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

26At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

27For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

28I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

29His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.

30Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

31Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

32Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.


The scriptures are just like a whole new book for me...this is so exciting!

I also notice for example the what trials postings...not that I personally asked the questions regarding trials but after reading the post Roy posted I contemplated those things ...it used to be I would ask God a question...I can remember crying, begging Him to help me. I always felt like there was something missing...I can remember saying to Him at different times...God...what am I missing...there is some key I am missing what is it. Now I accepted Christ at 18 and I didn't get these revelations until 37...but now I ask a question and the answers come within a couple days or even less!

Lori