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I am a clean slate

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EKnight:
Hi Samson,

I understand the concept of needing to know they opposite of one thing in order to appreciate another.  I guess I just  feel like Ray's teachings presume that all that are reading came from the lies, and having not come from that background myself, it makes the learning that more difficult.  In other words, I have to first learn all the lies and then learn the truth. 

I guess this taps into what Dave in Tenn was asking in one of his posts about having to go into babylon first before being able to come to the knowledge of the truth.  I guess then the answer to his question is yes, one must first be deceived before they can see and hear the truth.

Quote from Dave's post:

This is not so much a hypothetical question as it is theoretical.

Ray says, and there is general agreement here, that for one to 'come out of Babylon' she or she must first be IN Babylon.

What does this mean for your regular run-of-the-mill 'lost' person, unbeliever, sinner without Christ, person who has never heard the gospel (or church heresies for that matter)?

Is this covered anywhere specifically?  If not, do you have any wisdom to share?

Don't get me wrong, there are things I learned in the Catholic church that Ray has refuted, but not to the extent of the lies of Christendom.  Catholics just "add to" the word, and I just threw that stuff away anyhow.  I guess I knew in my heart a lot of what Ray teaches before I got here.  Kinda like like at the end of the Wizard of Oz where they tell Dorothy she had the means to go home all along.  I knew God was a merciful God, I just didn't know the details of the truth and that is what I want to learn here. 

I just want it to be enough that I know there are false doctrines and false prophets and teachers.  I am not criticizing Rays ways but rather stating that for me, it only serves to distract and confuse me more.

Eileen  :)

mharrell08:
Hello Eileen,

In your original post, you use Ray's teaching on the harvest from LOF 4 as an example of his exposing Christendom's contradictions while teaching scriptural truths. And you also state in your newest post about how these exposes within his teaching "only serve to distract and confuse me more". Is this correct?

If so, did you still not understand Ray's teaching on the harvest in this LOF paper? How are Ray's exposes confusing to your understanding?

Also, I remember you having a thread about potentially starting a bible study, correct? Would it not be to your benefit to know the heretical lies that most Babylonian members believe in so you can scripturally refute them? Particularly since Ray does most if not all of showing how Christendom consistently contradicts itself.

Also, the Catholics do a lot more than 'add to' the word of God...but that's another subject for another day. I'm pretty sure if you started a thread in Off-Topic discussions and asked members to show you exactly how Catholics distort the word of God, it would be eye-opening.

Samson made a wonderful point about knowing contrasts and as Genesis teaches us that knowing good/evil or contrasts is KNOWLEDGE.

My main point is, maybe trying to look at Ray's extensive teaching with the Christendom exposes as a blessing in disguise. Yes the papers can be somewhat long, but full of spiritual treasure. And with all the teachings, you will grow in much more wisdom compared to just "knowing there are false doctrines, prophets, teachers".

Hope this helps,

Marques

indianabob:
Eileen,

I may be over simplifying here but from my perspective you seem to be saying that you have never been fooled by anyone that you trusted only to find that they were misguided themselves and were taking you along the same pathway to error.

Let me try an example using stories believed by some others.  I hope I have the facts in order, if not please correct me:

We believe that Jesus is without sin.  The Roman Catholic church teaches that Mary needed to have been conceived without sin also in order to be the "mother of God".  The Bible doesn't teach this idea, so where does it come from?
When you were Catholic did you wonder about this idea?  Did you teach it to others in the form of casual discussion?

The R.C. church teaches Transubstantiation, that the blessed bread and the wine used in the communion service actually changes into the body and blood of Jesus via a miracle and that is why they are careful not to spill any of the emblems. Did you ever question that teaching when you were attending?

These are pretty basic things to think about once a person begins to compare the Bible with the traditions of churchmen.

I'm just curious and trying to think of a way to explain why I asked questions in years past and found the answers unsatisfactory.

Regards, Bob

EKnight:
I guess I am not explaining myself well enough.  Suffice it to say that the truths taught here are overwhelming enough for me without having to learn the untruths as well.  I understand the reasoning I am just saying it's too much for me to process and those of you who have learned the false teaching have a head start on me.  And rarely does Ray touch upon the teachings of the Catholic church. 

I am keenly aware of the teachings of the Catholic Church i.e. Mary being born without sin (but that is because they also believe in "original" sin) and transubstantiation, and purgatory and limbo and no meat on Fridays during lent, and all the sacraments.  All these are what I am referring to when I said "add to".  And like I said before, I didn't really believe in that anyway.  I was what they call a "cafeteria Catholic".  Therefore, I don't feel indoctrinated, hence the subject, clean slate.

Eileen

Phil3:10:
Eileen,
It would be wonderful to only have the real truth preached to all from the beginning. However, Paul was the first to warn us of the problems of untruthfulness and the Bible is full of such warnings. Absolute truth is probably not possible today and I do think that Ray would be the first to say so. I often wonder if the real love of GOD for HIS creation had been taught from the beginning what this world would be like. I think there would be far fewer wars, hate, pain and suffering if HIS real truth was always taught. I know that GOD has a remnant that HE has preserved but I am sure they are few in number and probably would not wish to associate with the lost and dying world of modern day Christianity/churchanity.
I personally feel the Catholic Church is the mother church of all of Christendom with the exception of GOD'S elect remnant. One of the reasons I give for not wanting to be called a christian is that the Catholic Church is also labeled as christian.  Almost all we see outside Bible-Truths and maybe a few others that believe in universal salvation preach lies and deception.  It is man that corrupts but GOD planned it this way and HE has HIS reasons that one day HE will reveal.
Suffice it to say that all of us would like to hear only the pure truths from the mint house of GOD. However, they like the pearl of great price must be searched for and require due diligence on our part. Ray's primary purpose is to expose the lies and deception in all of the binding religions, most especially Christianity. I personally feel Ray is teaching real truth but due to the nature of his audience he must parallel it with the untruths and deception that prevail today. For me, it was unlearning the false truths and accepting the real truths of GOD. Ray revealed and the SPIRIT of GOD through Ray's teachings enlightened my new found beliefs.
Coming out of a Catholic Church I feel you are most indoctrinated as I feel they are the most pagan of the so-called christian churches.

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