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There's no excuse
David:
The whole "no excuse" doctrine, as far as I can tell from my experience derives from a gross misinterpretation of Rom 1:20. My Pastor used to quote this scripture as "scriptural proof" that no one can claim to "not know", so therefore there's "no excuse" for anyone. I asked him once if he thought Rom 1:20 was a reference to all of mankind, rather than a particular group Paul was referring to. He said he thought it meant all of mankind. So I asked him what he thought about Rom 1:18, particularly the last phrase "..who suppress the truth in unrighteousness." Surely in order to suppress the truth about something, you would have to have some knowledge of what that "truth" is? The rest of the chapter goes on to talk about foolish wisdom, the making and worshipping of idols, and ritualistic sexual abominations. Surely this is talking about people involved in pagan ritualistic worship? He insisted it meant everyone on earth, and insisted that everyone knew, and knows who God is. Yet in 1Thes 4:5, and 2Thes 1:8 Paul makes reference to Gentiles "that know not God". Most reference Bibles say that Romans was written around AD 57, Thessalonians around AD 51. I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that in the space of 6 years Paul had managed to circumnavigate the planet and preach the Gospel to everyone on earth. Christianity didn't reach many countires until centuries later.
Jesus made it quite clear in Luke 12:47-48 that there were and will be those that do not know the will of God.
Slightly off topic, but this really struck me yesterday so I'd like to share it. I was reading Micah and in the last part of verse 2, ch 5 it says "Who's goings forth are from old, from everlasting".....................how can you have an "everlasting" in the past tense? If the past is "everlasting", eternal and infinite, then the 1st sentence of scripture is a lie. In more modern translations it has it ..."from ancient times"....much better.
Obviously yet another attempt by the KJ theologians to insert this "eternity" nonsense into the Bible, because without it, their Hell doctrine falls.
OBrenda:
--- Quote from: David on July 28, 2008, 03:05:34 AM ---My Pastor used to quote this scripture as "scriptural proof" that no one can claim to "not know", so therefore there's "no excuse" for anyone. I asked him once if he thought Rom 1:20 was a reference to all of mankind, rather than a particular group Paul was referring to. He said he thought it meant all of mankind. So I asked him what he thought about Rom 1:18, particularly the last phrase "..who suppress the truth in unrighteousness." Surely in order to suppress the truth about something, you would have to have some knowledge of what that "truth" is? The rest of
it quite clear in Luke 12:47-48 that there were and will be those that do not know the will of God.
--- End quote ---
David I also noticed that this describes people who know!
Luke 12:47-48
That servant who knew what his master wanted but didn't prepare himself or do what was wanted will receive a severe beating.But the servant who did things that deserved a beating without knowing it will receive a light beating. Much will be required from everyone to whom much has been given. But even more will be demanded from the one to whom much has been entrusted."
Romans 1:18
For God's wrath is being revealed from heaven against all the ungodliness and wickedness of those who in their wickedness
suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God himself has made it plain to them.
I also noticed in this that God's Wrath is against the ungodliness and wickedness "OF" those.
Not against "THOSE"!
Does this not further reveal to us that it is Sin that His wrath is torwards primarily and not individuals exclusively?
Just wondering, I could be wrong!
Brenda
David:
--- Quote from: OBrenda on July 28, 2008, 06:23:24 AM ---
--- Quote from: David on July 28, 2008, 03:05:34 AM ---My Pastor used to quote this scripture as "scriptural proof" that no one can claim to "not know", so therefore there's "no excuse" for anyone. I asked him once if he thought Rom 1:20 was a reference to all of mankind, rather than a particular group Paul was referring to. He said he thought it meant all of mankind. So I asked him what he thought about Rom 1:18, particularly the last phrase "..who suppress the truth in unrighteousness." Surely in order to suppress the truth about something, you would have to have some knowledge of what that "truth" is? The rest of
it quite clear in Luke 12:47-48 that there were and will be those that do not know the will of God.
--- End quote ---
David I also noticed that this describes people who know!
Luke 12:47-48
That servant who knew what his master wanted but didn't prepare himself or do what was wanted will receive a severe beating.But the servant who did things that deserved a beating without knowing it will receive a light beating. Much will be required from everyone to whom much has been given. But even more will be demanded from the one to whom much has been entrusted."
Romans 1:18
For God's wrath is being revealed from heaven against all the ungodliness and wickedness of those who in their wickedness
suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God himself has made it plain to them.
I also noticed in this that God's Wrath is against the ungodliness and wickedness "OF" those.
Not against "THOSE"!
Does this not further reveal to us that it is Sin that His wrath is torwards primarily and not individuals exclusively?
Just wondering, I could be wrong!
Brenda
--- End quote ---
I believe you are right on Brenda, God is no respector of persons. It is our sin He will burn out of us, its not us he hates (as the Church would have us believe, only a god filled with hate would burn people forever), it is our sin, and He will burn it away.
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