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Did Jesus ever get sick?
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Patik on August 01, 2008, 04:24:12 AM ---Hi Linny, I hope not to offend, please believe me when I say this.
I beleive Job did no wrong according to the first verse in Job which says;
Job 1:1 There was a man in the country of Uz. Job was his name. And this man was flawless and upright, fearing Elohim and withdrawing from evil.
And this;
Job 1:8 So Yahweh said to Satan, Have you set your heart on My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a man flawless and upright, fearing Elohim and withdrawing from evil.
It was God who caused Satan to do this to Job
Job 1:12 Hence Yahweh said to Satan, Behold, all that he has is in your hand, but you must not put forth your hand upon himself. Then Satan went forth from Yahweh's presence.
Even after God did this to Job's family Job said this;
Job 1:21 And he said, Naked I came forth from the belly of my mother, and naked I shall return there. Yahweh, He gives, and Yahweh, He takes away. Blessed be the name of Yahweh.
Job 1:22 In all this, Job neither sinned nor ascribed anything improper to Elohim.
It seems Job said this after God did this to him;
Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me
I mean who wouldnt be fearful after all that? Isnt it God Who inspires fear? All and any fear? Isnt fear part of evil, which God created? Seems Job was fearful of God as we all should be. I dont think it was the evil kind of fear Job had though.
Exo 34:10 Then He said: Behold, I am contracting a covenant; in front of all your people shall I do marvels which have not been created on the entire earth, or among any of the nations. So all the people among whom you are will see the handiwork of Yahweh, for fear inspiring is that which I am doing with you.
I believe here is why evil happens to us, according to Job;
Job 5:7 But humanity is born to misery, Even as sparks of burning coal shoot aloft to fly.
Job 5:8 Howbeit, as for me, I inquire of El, And before Elohim do I place my cause,
Even after all this God blessed Job even more than before. Because Job endured and was always patient. Just like God will do for us if we endure and be patient even when we suffer. Job is one of the best examples on how to endure trials.
I agree evil fear needs to be repented of, I simply cannot choose to be fearless. I have to ask God to grant me courage, and to remove the fear. There is also a healthy fear of which Job had for God. Maybe Im wrong, and prepared to be corrected. Im always willing to learn ;D
Your Friend in Christ, George D.
--- End quote ---
Excellent point, George. I totally agree with your statement 'I simply cannot choose to be fearless'. That shows a knowledge of not only knowing you have no free will, but living in that knowledge as well. Similar to 'knowing Christ' compared to Christ in you and you in him.
Too often, we know these truths such as 'no free will' but we don't live our lives in that knowledge.
Thanks,
Marques
Linny:
No offense taken. However, allow me to explain further as I think you misunderstood me.
I do NOTHING without the power of God working within me. When fear comes upon me, I choose to fight it with all I have within me. I am not talking about my personal inner strength here. I am speaking of the prayerful use of Scripture and lots of prayer. I DO ask God to grant me courage and take away my fear. This is why it leaves me. Not through my power or will but through His. I believe He answers my prayer because it is His will that I not walk in fear.
So, this is not about my free will, it is about making choices to either sin or not to sin.
About Job, I know that Job was an upright man. It is not my intention to harshly criticize Job.
In the KJV, he is called perfect:
H8535
תּם
tâm
tawm
From H8552; complete; usually (morally) pious; specifically gentle, dear: - coupled together, perfect, plain, undefiled, upright.
However, I think people tend to take this too far. You said that Job did no wrong. Only Jesus Christ walked a perfect life. Job did not. He was a man and the Scripture tells us that all men fall short and it also said that all he feared came upon him. Since I know from 365 other Scriptures that we are commanded NOT to fear, then Job, although upright and moral, was not perfect because none of us are.
Hopefully I did not offend either. We may certainly disagree on this point.
;)
winner08:
I always thought that God gave permission for Satan to do anything he wanted to Job except kill him. To prove Job love God more than anything or anyone. God told Satan that no matter what he did to Job,he would not curse Him. I don't know for sure but I don't think Job did anything to God in order that God had to punish him. Which leads me to a question that has bother me for a long time. Why would God do this to Job? What purpose did He have by putting Job through this? God created evil, God created Satan and Satan had to get permission from God before touching him.(Job) What was the purpose for this suffering?
Darren
jakfr0s:
I totally agree with you that all have sinned. I would be foolish to think otherwise. But I also believe that God can bring us to a point where sin no longer has dominion in our lives. I believe this is where Job was in his life. Im sure Job willingly sinned before God changed him. But it seems that Scripture is telling us of a time when Job no longer willingly sinned. I truly believe the Scriptures when they say
Job 1:1 A man there hath been in the land of Uz--Job his name--and that man hath been perfect and upright--both fearing God, and turning aside from evil.
Even after God did this to Job's family, which Job knew it was God, the Scriptures say this
Job 1:22 In all this Job hath not sinned, nor given folly to God.
After all that God caused Satan to give Job painful boils. We can see Who Job is fearful of.
Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me; their fury is drinking my spirit; the terrors of God are set against me.
I agree the Scriptures say many times not to fear, but they also say to fear God. Is this a contradiction? Or maybe a two different kinds of fear? Two different translations of fear?
Do you really believe Job was fearful of anything besides God? If the Scriptures say he was perfect and flawless and without sin at this time in his life, there could be only one thing he could be possibly afraid of, and that would be God. If he feared anything else during this time in his life wouldnt that be sin? When Im fearful of my kids getting hurt, im saying I dont trust God, and that is a sin. I must repent of that. And trust that no matter what happens to my kids good or bad it wasnt in my control, but in Gods control. God's will is perfect no matter what happens to my kids. Thats not to say it wouldnt hurt. If I curse Him for hurting my kids that would be a sin, but if I thank Him for the trial, and do nothing but praise Him like Job then I can be blessed and receive a even more than I had before.
You said " how many times do people get what they fear?" I personally dont believe there is anything I can do that would cause God to either curse me or bless me.
Joh 15:5 I am the Grapevine. You are the branches. He who is remaining in Me, and I in him, this one is bringing forth much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
I never once said that you Linny believed in free will. You said, "when we choose NOT to fear." If I misunderstood you, please I humbly ask for your forgivness.
As for everything else I think I will believe in the Scriptures. Please no offense intended.
Your Friend in Christ, George D.
Linny:
Darren, I have that very same question! :-\
I lost my mentor suddenly 4 years ago. She was the most loved woman I've ever known and her ministry (outside the church) was huge. She was the healthiest person I've ever known as well and took better care of herself than anyone I know. Yet, at 61, she dropped dead. Many of us were crushed by the loss and none of us can fathom why God would take her. I was angry with God for a long time. Then I did as she taught me and I released her and the need to know why.
I often think this is what I have to do where Job is concerned.
George, you asked, "Do you really believe Job was fearful of anything besides God?" That's a great question.
Since we know everything he feared came upon him, we know that he feared losing his family, losing his wealth, and losing his health. If he only feared God then he feared that God would take these things from him? I don't have that kind of fear of God. I don't understand that kind of fear of my Heavenly Father so I can't say that it is a healthy, sinless fear.
I would have to do some more study to Scripturally answer this.
"I personally don't believe there is anything I can do that would cause God to either curse me or bless me. "
But this is what I found quickly...
Deu 11:25 No one shall be able to stand against you. The LORD your God will lay the fear of you and the dread of you on all the land that you shall tread, as he promised you.
Deu 11:26 "See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse:
Deu 11:27 the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you today,
Deu 11:28 and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way that I am commanding you today, to go after other gods that you have not known. "
And...
Gen 27:12 "Perhaps my father will feel me, and I shall seem to be mocking him and bring a curse upon myself and not a blessing."
It doesn't set right in my Spirit to think God would ever "curse" me. He is my Dad and as a parent I would never curse my children. I am certainly not even close to having the kind of love God has.
I know that my trials bring me closer to being more like Him, but I don't consider my trials a curse but a blessing. Because when I come out of them, I come out stronger.
Again, all my oh, so humble opinion from my reading of the Scriptures...
:)
In Love,
Linny
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