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Author Topic: Pagan Christianity  (Read 24331 times)

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winner08

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2008, 11:20:27 PM »

There's a saying that goes something like this: Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. To make an informed decision one most have good information. Myself I like to know everything possible on the subject then make a well inform decision. Besides that it is very interesting to know where and how these pagan rituals got started. Also how they found their way into the man made christian doctrine.

                                             Darren
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 12:15:25 PM by winner08 »
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jakfr0s

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2008, 08:32:18 PM »

  Darren, that is the doctrine of man; "There's a saying that goes something like this: Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."  Let God deal with our history, which has always been nothing but evil. God is in total control of our past, present, and future, not man. Do a google search on this man "George Santayana" he seems to have his own version of Scriptures, and seems to believe in eternal torment in hell. He also seems to be responsible for the above "saying".

I totally agree and support all those that say we need to stick with Scriptures. I have no interest in that pagan garbage, and the only way Im gonna read or listen to it is from Ray, because I personally believe that he is much better grounded than most of us in Scriptures and he is much better equipped to teach and tell us what to look out for. I believe God brought us here cause he knew we were ready in every way for the Truth. Combined we have a lot of knowledge about babylone. Why would anyone want to go back into something Babylonian related after just coming out?  Remember Ray is much further along in this Spiritual walk than most of us, and only by the Grace of God. If you wanna read that pagan crap that is your business, but please dont be telling people who just came out of that to go reading it. I believe we need to build a solid foundation from Scriptures,like Ray before we can start teaching others what to look out for. Im sorry but Im seeing alot of things on this forum that shouldn't be happening. But it is happening, just as God has planned. Why would that be? I love the Truth in the Scriptures, I have learned more from them in the short time Ive been here, then all my time I spent in babylone, and that was a long time. I feel I know enough about babylone, and Im sick of it, and now I wanna know even more about the Truth in Scriptures so as to get a good grounding in it like Ray. Seems there isnt a whole lot of support for those speaking the Truth as it is written.  Forgive me God if Im wrong. If no one else can see it I must be wrong. Once again, I totally support and agree with those who believe we need to stick to Scriptures and Ray's teaching, cause im sure we all know and can agree he is very blessed, and has truly found favor with our Heavenly Father.  If there be any doubt, maybe we should ask Ray what we should be reading. Remember if we are to be the Elect then we have to be in Unity, like minded. Im praying for you all.

  1Jn 4:6  We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

  2Jn 1:2  For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.

  2Pe 2:2  And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 

  Deu 13:14  Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

  Jos 24:14  Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.

  God bless you all, I eagerly look forward to your responses.

  Your Friend in Christ Jesus, George D.
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indianabob

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2008, 10:11:59 PM »

Folks,

On the study of paganism and pagan style Christianity I have studied a little over the years.
So, I want to state this carefully when I say that it is quite well accepted in some segments of society that a person needs to have doubts about their current practices or beliefs before they will become interested in NEW truth (new to them). 

Perhaps that is why some of us are led to examine the background of these practices in order that we may confirm our observations and to be better able to stir up doubt in the minds of our friends or relatives who are still trapped in pagan Christianity.  If true, since our motive is to help, that may or may not be a laudable purpose.

The question that comes to mind after reading all that has been presented is this; do we, any of us, need to stir up doubt or offer answers or offer solutions to problems that we see in other people or other organizations?  Is it our job, since becoming
aware that we are called of God, to go out and CALL others?  Or is it rather God's job to CALL others according to His will?

Are some of us perhaps, trying to do what God alone can do?  Are we lovingly and yet impatiently trying to draw others into our intimate sphere in order to have those close to us become aware of what we are being taught spiritually?

I have learned interesting "facts" from the casual scanning of pagan sources, but very little of it was required to teach or share the truth of God's plan and purpose with others who were sincerely interested in obeying God and serving Christ.  Those who are not already interested in obeying are probably not being called.  It is more likely that they are just curious or worried by world events etc. and that natural, carnal, human curiosity may lead me to believe incorrectly that they are called by God.

I suppose the bottom line in my response here is that much of the information we can glean from study of pagan sources will not be helpful in CONVERTING anyone else, many of the authors of these books remain in "Christendom" perhaps trying to reform it and I don't believe that will happen based upon human effort. 

Perhaps we should focus on learning how to make God's truth interesting, exciting and motivating as we prepare ourselves to share it with those who truly are being called.  Then after they, the newly called, have learned God's plan, from scripture and the guiding of Christ's/God's spirit and study of bible truths which have been carefully constructed for sharing with newbies, they will begin to benefit from fellowship with us.

There are many neighbors and friends who truly NEED what we are learning, but we must ask ourselves whether NOW is the time for us to share, whether NOW is the time that God is calling them.  We may need to keep in mind that what we now see and understand CANNOT be seen and understood by most others, even though they are our friends or spouses.

Just my view.  And please realize that these remarks do not provide comprehensive coverage of the subject matter.

With love, indianabob
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KristaD

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2008, 10:51:05 PM »

The author and book mentioned may not be the best way to go about learning about paganism in christianity but that is no reason to write off that knowledge entirely. It's not always necessary for those that have left the churches to find out more reasons why churches are wrong but sometimes people need to know those things in order to not go back or to leave in the first place. Also the subject of paganism in the christian holidays is something that we must be aware of to leave. Many people will still revel in pagan traditions with no knowledge of what they are doing, I think it's better to find out. God has given us many sources of information and we all know that He works through EVERYTHING. A simple look in an encyclopedia will reveal the pagan roots of many practices. Since the holidays that we have now did not exist in the times that the scriptures were written they are not listed by name and revealed for what they are but we are admonished to "do not as the heathens do". Shouldn't we be aware if what we are doing is what the heathens do? I'm not saying to learn everything that they do but just compare what we ourselves are already doing to what they do. I'm not saying once you know those things that you need to study it further or dwell on it at all. God took me through a time where He was revealing many evils to me and many pagan things, He also enabled me to turn from them, which I could only do if I KNEW what they were. After I had that knowledge there was no more time or effort spent on the matter.
I'm not going to look to any other person on this earth for all the answers. If I rely on another man's relationship with God for my own then I am doomed, what if that man died and I couldn't ask Him questions or what if he was wrong? Jesus is the only One who I can rely on and I trust that when I pray to God that He hears me and that when I ask Him for knowledge He will lead me to a source that will give me that knowledge and He will show me the good from the bad and the lies from the truth.
I think whether or not we seek out that knowledge to educate others is an entirely different matter. I sought the knowledge for my own learning.
Once again I have no idea about the author or the book mentioned as I have no need read it to learn those things again, I am simply commenting on the subject of becoming educated about paganism in christian traditions.
If anyone is able to understand the scriptures well enough and hear God well enough to obtain knowledge about things that aren't directly stated in the scriptures then truly they have no need to look anywhere else for any knowledge but I don't believe that most of us start out with that ability.
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indianabob

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2008, 12:02:31 AM »

Well said Krista,

Especially about not looking to any other person for the truth when you have the source of all truth teaching you.
Isn't it interesting how Jesus puts thoughts in our mind to guide us.  " a still small voice" I Kings 19:12 ,speaking tenderly as to a beloved child,  Rather than with the trumpet or the whirlwind as he must do with the worldly.  What blessings we have.

Bob


The author and book mentioned may not be the best way to go about learning about paganism in christianity but that is no reason to write off that knowledge entirely. It's not always necessary for those that have left the churches to find out more reasons why churches are wrong but sometimes people need to know tIhose things in order to not go back or to leave in the first place. Also the subject of paganism in the christian holidays is something that we must be aware of to leave. Many people will still revel in pagan traditions with no knowledge of what they are doing, I think it's better to find out. God has given us many sources of information and we all know that He works through EVERYTHING. A simple look in an encyclopedia will reveal the pagan roots of many practices. Since the holidays that we have now did not exist in the times that the scriptures were written they are not listed by name and revealed for what they are but we are admonished to "do not as the heathens do". Shouldn't we be aware if what we are doing is what the heathens do? I'm not saying to learn everything that they do but just compare what we ourselves are already doing to what they do. I'm not saying once you know those things that you need to study it further or dwell on it at all. God took me through a time where He was revealing many evils to me and many pagan things, He also enabled me to turn from them, which I could only do if I KNEW what they were. After I had that knowledge there was no more time or effort spent on the matter.
I'm not going to look to any other person on this earth for all the answers. If I rely on another man's relationship with God for my own then I am doomed, what if that man died and I couldn't ask Him questions or what if he was wrong? Jesus is the only One who I can rely on and I trust that when I pray to God that He hears me and that when I ask Him for knowledge He will lead me to a source that will give me that knowledge and He will show me the good from the bad and the lies from the truth.
I think whether or not we seek out that knowledge to educate others is an entirely different matter. I sought the knowledge for my own learning.
Once again I have no idea about the author or the book mentioned as I have no need read it to learn those things again, I am simply commenting on the subject of becoming educated about paganism in christian traditions.
If anyone is able to understand the scriptures well enough and hear God well enough to obtain knowledge about things that aren't directly stated in the scriptures then truly they have no need to look anywhere else for any knowledge but I don't believe that most of us start out with that ability.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2008, 12:11:14 AM »

If you can accept that Paul's short 'sermon' on meat has any relevancce to this discussion (I can and do) I call to our remembrance Romans 14 without comment.

Rom 14:1  Accept the person who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of arguing over differences of opinion.   2  One person believes that he can eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.  3  The person who eats must not despise the person who does not eat, and the person who does not eat must not criticize the person who eats, for God has accepted him.

4  Who are you to criticize someone else's servant? His own Lord will determine whether he stands or falls. And stand he will, because God is able to make him stand.  5  One person decides that one day is better than another, while another person decides that all days are the same. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind.

6  The one who observes a special day, observes it to honor the Lord. The one who eats, eats to honor the Lord, since he gives thanks to God. And the one who does not eat, refrains from eating to honor the Lord; yet he, too, gives thanks to God.  7  For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8  If we live, we live to honor the Lord; and if we die, we die to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9  For this reason Christ died and returned to life, so that he might become the Lord of both the dead and the living. 

10  Why, then, do you criticize your brother? Or why do you despise your brother? For all of us will stand before the judgment seat of God.  11  For it is written, "As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praise God." 12  Consequently, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13  Therefore, let us no longer criticize each other. Instead, make up your mind not to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14  I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in and of itself. But it is unclean to a person who thinks it is unclean.  15  For if your brother is being hurt by what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not destroy the person for whom Christ died by what you eat.  16  Do not allow your good to be spoken of as evil.  17  For God's kingdom does not consist of food and drink, but of righteousness, peace, and joy produced by the Holy Spirit.

18  For the person who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by people.  19  Therefore, let us keep on pursuing those things that bring peace and that lead to building one another up.  20  Do not destroy God's work for the sake of food. Everything is clean, but it is wrong to make another person fall because of what you eat.

21  The right thing to do is to avoid eating meat, drinking wine, or doing anything else that makes your brother stumble or become upset or weak.  22  As for the faith you do have, have it as your own conviction before God. How blessed is the person who has no reason to condemn himself because of what he approves!  23  But the person who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not act in faith; and anything that is not done in faith is sin.
 
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 12:13:57 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

kweli

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2008, 08:05:16 AM »

I was watching the Travel Channel on China.  In Xian province they have discovered thousands of terracotta soldiers who were to "guard' the emperor in his after life!  Sounds like Egypt to me.
You are such a teacher  :D :D :D

Amen to that older brother Dave. There may be more truth in that passage for this topic than we realize. I especially like verses 10-17, with 18 as the pivot. Okay, the whole passage is enlightening.

KristaD, I dont think we are relying on any man to learn anything. I believe we are relying on God to open our eyes to His Word, sometimes (actually more often) using a mere man. That's how He has been operating ever since. So I guess the trick is knowing which man He is using. I cant pretend to know that but I can say without a doubt that the man (or woman, looking at Priscilla in Acts and others) He may be using must speak according to Christ and His appointed apostles in His Word. I may be wrong, but I hope not completely.

All Glory To GOD
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psalmsinger

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2008, 10:20:25 AM »

Thank you Dave for your perception of the scriptures.  Many here know of the pagan influence in standard christianity through many sources, including Ray's writings.  The first I ever heard of "salvation of all" and the "reconciliation of all things" was from the writings of Frank Viola. Unfortunately, for the most part, you did have to "buy the book", which ironically enough seems to be more of a modern day pagan practice. I thank God for all He has revealed to me from whatever source and will not discourage anyone from reading other works or even listening to other speakers because of the scriptures you quoted.  God has a reason and purpose for every word published, ultimately a good purpose:) 

Phil 1:18-19
18   What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
19   For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
(KJV)

Rest in the Lord,
Barbara

If you can accept that Paul's short 'sermon' on meat has any relevancce to this discussion (I can and do) I call to our remembrance Romans 14 without comment.

Rom 14:1  Accept the person who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of arguing over differences of opinion.   2  One person believes that he can eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.  3  The person who eats must not despise the person who does not eat, and the person who does not eat must not criticize the person who eats, for God has accepted him.

4  Who are you to criticize someone else's servant? His own Lord will determine whether he stands or falls. And stand he will, because God is able to make him stand.  5  One person decides that one day is better than another, while another person decides that all days are the same. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind.

6  The one who observes a special day, observes it to honor the Lord. The one who eats, eats to honor the Lord, since he gives thanks to God. And the one who does not eat, refrains from eating to honor the Lord; yet he, too, gives thanks to God.  7  For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8  If we live, we live to honor the Lord; and if we die, we die to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9  For this reason Christ died and returned to life, so that he might become the Lord of both the dead and the living. 

10  Why, then, do you criticize your brother? Or why do you despise your brother? For all of us will stand before the judgment seat of God.  11  For it is written, "As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praise God." 12  Consequently, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13  Therefore, let us no longer criticize each other. Instead, make up your mind not to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14  I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in and of itself. But it is unclean to a person who thinks it is unclean.  15  For if your brother is being hurt by what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not destroy the person for whom Christ died by what you eat.  16  Do not allow your good to be spoken of as evil.  17  For God's kingdom does not consist of food and drink, but of righteousness, peace, and joy produced by the Holy Spirit.

18  For the person who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by people.  19  Therefore, let us keep on pursuing those things that bring peace and that lead to building one another up.  20  Do not destroy God's work for the sake of food. Everything is clean, but it is wrong to make another person fall because of what you eat.

21  The right thing to do is to avoid eating meat, drinking wine, or doing anything else that makes your brother stumble or become upset or weak.  22  As for the faith you do have, have it as your own conviction before God. How blessed is the person who has no reason to condemn himself because of what he approves!  23  But the person who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not act in faith; and anything that is not done in faith is sin.
 

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JeffH

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2008, 01:59:39 PM »

>>>and the only way Im gonna read or listen to it is from Ray

JakFr0s,

Just a word of caution.  Be mindful in all things regarding God's Truth.  Ray is a gifted teacher and because of his willingness to spend time on his knees and countless hours of prayerful study, we're also blessed as we read and learn through his insight into Scripture, however Ray is a servant of God just as you are.   We all have to be careful to remember that first and foremost - God is the Source of all Truth.

I've been reading Ray's writings for about 5 years and I've found that the most valuable thing I've learned from him is to "seek God with all my heart".  Ray's writings inspire me to search for God on a level I never knew existed, but Ray is a springboard, a launchpad to assist us as we each strive to find deeper meaning in God's Word in our own lives.  God will work in you to the extent you're willing, just as He works in Ray.  Ray's greatest gift is his hunger to know his Creator.  We should all be so blessed.

This thread reminds me of what Paul said in his letter to the Church of Corinth:

1 Corinthians 1:10-17 (KJV)

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.


Jeff

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joyful1

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2008, 02:50:34 PM »


Someone may need to see "the crack in the foundation" of the organization  before they are able/ready to see "the crack in the foundation" of their entire life! I say...if a book about pagan christianity is put in your path......use it to the glory of God, just like everything else! JMHO!

Gena--the warrior thingy was funny! :D
Joyce :)
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David

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2008, 03:25:52 PM »

There's a saying that goes something like this: Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. To make an informed decision one most have good information. Myself I like to know everything possible on the subject then make a well inform decision. Besides that it is very interesting to know where and how these pagan rituals got started. Also how they found their way into the man made christian doctrine.

                                             Darren

Darren, people may well know a lot more about history than you give credit for. Having a detailed knowledge of spurious nonsense, which is basically what most of these books about pagan myths and traditions are full of, does not IMO equip one with the tools to guard against false pagan traditions and doctrines.
Studdying the scriptures, keeping the doctrine of Jesus Christ, and praying daily without ceasing for wisdom and understanding as Solomon did helps me steer well clear of any of these pagan fairy tales. I'm well aware of where a lot of the garbage in the church originates from, and I'm also very well aware, as I thought most here would be, that allowing that nonsense to creep into ones daily study and life will infect you if you are not well guarded against it. I wish this as no offense to anyone, but I believe its the height of foolishness to teach that one should learn about these things in order to guard against them. Surely one doesn't need to try heroin to be aware of its evil effects.
Again I refer to Deu 12:30. Doesn't seem to me that this scripture is just "friendly advice" but a clear concise commandment with a reason and purpose that God intends us to obey. This commandment in Due 12:30 is directly linked to the 1st 2nd and 3rd commandments of Exo 20.
To say to Deu 12:30 "well, you need to learn about this stuff so you know what its all about etc etc", well that's like saying one needs to read and enquire all about murder in order to understand why God said "You shall do no murder" in Exo 20:13.
The scriptures on this issue seem pretty clear to me, that's all I shall say on this matter.
God bless you.
David.
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KristaD

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2008, 04:28:04 PM »

Murder is a little different. We KNOW what murder is and are quite aware of how not to do it. If we don't know what the heathens are doing how can we know that we are not doing the same as them? I'm not at all saying to study any pagan things, just be aware of what they are. Yes the scriptures are clear that we are not to seek out the pagan things but I see nothing in the scripture that says we should be ignorant of what the pagan things are.
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AK4

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2008, 06:22:52 PM »

Quote
Just a word of caution.  Be mindful in all things regarding God's Truth.  Ray is a gifted teacher and because of his willingness to spend time on his knees and countless hours of prayerful study, we're also blessed as we read and learn through his insight into Scripture, however Ray is a servant of God just as you are.   We all have to be careful to remember that first and foremost - God is the Source of all Truth.

I've been reading Ray's writings for about 5 years and I've found that the most valuable thing I've learned from him is to "seek God with all my heart".  Ray's writings inspire me to search for God on a level I never knew existed, but Ray is a springboard, a launchpad to assist us as we each strive to find deeper meaning in God's Word in our own lives.  God will work in you to the extent you're willing, just as He works in Ray.  Ray's greatest gift is his hunger to know his Creator.  We should all be so blessed.

Jeff,
You hit the nail right on the head.  something i am trying to teach my kids is to question everything--even question me telling you to question everything.  Ray has alot of knowledge but even Ray tells you "dont take my word for, look it up yourself"

I was reading alot posts on here and i was kinda seeing what you are saying.  I still question what Ray writes, but that dont take away from me having faith and faith that Gods is using Ray.  I trust Rays writings, but we are told test the spirits.  I thank God everytime i tests Ray spirit it passes!!!

In Jesus,

Anthony

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OBrenda

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2008, 06:40:56 PM »

This may be a foolish,
but do you think there is a difference between inquiring after Pagan Gods,
verses,
researching our own faith/religion which all comes from Babylon,
to find the origins of rituals when they contradict the scriptures?

Is it me, or is it possible these two endeavors are not the same thing?

How could we have come to the knowledge of the "whore" unless someone studied these things?

Respectfully,
Brenda
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winner08

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2008, 09:29:10 PM »

Sorry David this is where we agree to disagree. I believe that many of people do not know history. Yes, your right I don't give much credit to people knowing history. Just look at our leaders. Look where we are at. I don;t want to get political. What about the Bible How many people can you honestly say they know their bible? The history, (Old Testament). No, I don't have to use herion to know it's bad. I learned that it was bad through reading and gathering info on the subject. Just as I like to get the most info on any subject that I want to know about so I can make an informed choice. If I know where some of these pagan's traditions come from I can explain If the subject ever comes up. Knowledge is a powerfull tool to have.

                                        Darren
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KristaD

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2008, 09:52:38 PM »

This may be a foolish,
but do you think there is a difference between inquiring after Pagan Gods,
verses,
researching our own faith/religion which all comes from Babylon,
to find the origins of rituals when they contradict the scriptures?

Is it me, or is it possible these two endeavors are not the same thing?

How could we have come to the knowledge of the "whore" unless someone studied these things?

Respectfully,
Brenda

We said dear lady! They are absolutely different. You said what I was trying to say but using too many words for :P.
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Samson

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2008, 12:12:29 AM »

Hello everyone,

                     Just a few thoughts on this what's Pagan and not Pagan thinking, after spending twenty years in a Religion(JW'S) that dwelled and put through a microscope everything that may or may not be Pagan and Judging ones relationship with God as a result of how much an individual involves themselves with activities or celebrations that have Pagan Roots, ONE SHOULD KEEP IN MIND THAT ALMOST EVERYTHING IN THIS WORLD HAS SOME PAGAN CONNECTION; ART WORK, THE DAYS OF THE WEEK, MOON DAY, THORSDAY, TWI, SATURN, SUN DAY, FRIDAY-FREI; THE MONTHS OF THE YEAR, THE PLANETS AND STARS, ETC, ETC; it's almost unavoidable to escape some indirect influence from these Pagan influences to some degree, to be completely " No part of the World " as John says, we would have to leave the planet.

                                              Kind Regards, Samson.
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OBrenda

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2008, 10:07:22 AM »

Right on Samson What about Tattoos?
I believe there is a scripture concerning not having them, due to their "pagan" connection to worshiping Other God's at that time.  Whether you love them or hate them, if someone gets a tattoo today, most have no thought of God in doing it.  If someone finds out latter in life the scriptures concerning tattoos does he need to repent of it?  Well maybe if it was his ex wife's name, or some nude girlie's, ect....but not if he did it without the intentions of worship to a pagan God.

How many times did Jesus admonish the people that they were missing the point in the Law?

Luke 11:38
And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner. And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.
Reread Dave in TN Post and Please consider to meditate on it:
Can anyone see themselves in anyway as the Pharisee above, it is not the natural/physical things of this world that are evil, It is the Spiritual/Intentions of the heart.  Be it Christmas Trees or Easter eggs or Weddings, or which day to celebrate the Sabbath, even some peoples position on wearing a Cross for jewelry,... those things are not inherently Evil or Good, it is the motivation of a Persons Heart Only!

I so respect the heart of those that want to follow God's word without compromise!  Clearly you Love God!  But take care, not to box God's Words in, and leave the his Spirit Out!

KristaD...you presented yourself beautifully as always. Unintentionally there are times when the kind and tenderhearted, get trampled over by others.  You do not need to defend yourself to those that strike you on one of your cheeks.  And I am not saying you need to be silent about it either!  I just pray that God Blesses you with his peace that loves the person behind their hastiness to make a point!  Kind of like when a two year old has a temper tantrum and you have to ignore it. Reminding yourself of the sweetness that also exists there in that same child! God will teach them, they usually feel shame....it is just their passion for the truth that trips them up, and really who can find fault with that?

Just my Thoughts,
Brenda
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 10:15:08 AM by OBrenda »
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KristaD

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2008, 01:15:49 PM »

Thank you, Brenda, I certainly needed that this morning and will meditate on those words.
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AK4

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Re: Pagan Christianity
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2008, 01:48:54 PM »

Quote
Can anyone see themselves in anyway as the Pharisee above, it is not the natural/physical things of this world that are evil, It is the Spiritual/Intentions of the heart.  Be it Christmas Trees or Easter eggs or Weddings, or which day to celebrate the Sabbath, even some peoples position on wearing a Cross for jewelry,... those things are not inherently Evil or Good, it is the motivation of a Persons Heart Only

Brenda,

I have to disagree with you on that it if your intentions are good it dont matter what you celebrate and or do.  Lets look at Saul before he became Paul.  His intentions was to God was it not, but Paul found out later that that zeal he had for God (and he did all this and that stuff with the good intentions like persecuting the church) was nothing but dung and to him it made him feel like the worst sinner ever.

Alot of people have good intentions when doing something but it can be one of the most evil things.  For example Catholics, (oh i got alot examples about them but,) they have the good intentions with confessing their sins, but look at how they do it--to their pastor who they call father. Jesus says call no one on earth our father we only have one Father.  They pray for peace on earth who they feel that it can basically only come from their Pope.  Even their sign of the cross.

Another example: you say christmas and easter right, think about this---Jesus said that these people worship me in vain.  People celebrating these holidays no doubt have good intentions and want to worship God the right way, but if your not doing it the straight and narrow path way then its all in vain.

Christmas trees, easter eggs, even wearing a cross with Jesus on it has to be a form of idol worship---Do not make any idol in the image of Me (paraphrased)


i would back up all that i have stated with the scriptures but im at work without my bible or esword

respectfully and with love,

Anthony
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