> General Discussions
responding to... i can live like hell and still be saved
Samson:
--- Quote from: AK4 on August 02, 2008, 05:30:50 PM ---i remember reading an email or something where someone said to Ray that since we all are going to be saved anyway he might as well just live it up now. And Ray responded saying this guy obviously didn't care about Jesus dying for our sins or something of the like.
Do anybody know where this is? I want to answer this one guy i know question but i just don't know where to start. it feels like i get flooded with too many answers for him, then mind gets fluttered and i don't know what to say.
Or i guess a better question is whats the best way to respond to someone who says that?
thanks,
Anthony
--- End quote ---
Hello Anthony,
The guy who wrote that E-mail to Ray should listen to or read the Audio or Transcript about How Hard is it to be Saved, I received a similiar response from some people I know(Acquaintances) to that affect; ie- " I might as well Sin and do whatever I want", apparently they either feel that their level of " good " behavior is superior to many others and resent that those who commited horrible acts during their live's(Hitler, Stalin, Manson, Dahmer, etc) shouldn't receive Salvation like them, not realizing if they had the same circumstances, genetics and prior causes to their choices, they would have been just as Bad. Also, some of these people don't realize all of us receive Chastisement to some degree and length, depending on what God deems necessary(learning righteousness through Judgement). I always explain to people that I speak with on this Salvation of All topic that these notoriously wicked people through History don't end up being like they were in the passed because they will repent, it's God's Will; 2 Peter. 3:9.
All of this reasoning; " I might as well Sin attitude " sometimes means that God isn't ready for them to embrace the concept, EVENTUAL SALVATION FOR ALL, that is probably why that many years ago when briefly hearing about Universal Salvation, my response was similiar; " If everyone is going to be saved, why bother even trying to act right ", I had the wrong attitude and apparently wasn't ready for God to reveal these Truth's to me, maybe thinking I wasn't as bad as the next guy and deserved a better fate, how self-righteous that thinking was on my part. This kind of thinking in it's ultimate conclusion leads Humans into rating themselves in comparison to other people, Example: " Well I'm better than this guy who lives down the street, yet if you really think about it long enough, you could always find someone who acted better than you did in life, but in reality, if God kept a list of our Sin's in order to determine whether or not we receive Salvation, WE WOULD ALL FAIL, regardless of how many we committed during our live's. It's a good thing other Humans don't decide who deserves or doesn't deserve Salvation.
All of us at this Forum should greatly appreciate God opening our eyes to this wonderfull Free Gift of Salvation for All and that Salvation isn't merely for OUR friends, family and those that we personally think should get life, because if left to OUR Carnal Minds, OUR list for who we think should be Saved, would be different than someone else's.
Just my thoughts this Morning after reading this thread.
Kind Regards, Samson.
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: winner08 on August 03, 2008, 09:08:57 AM ---So do I have it wrong? The ones that are more wicked (sinful)than other will pay a heaver price?
people like Hitler or Saddam or Stalin and Po Pot. These people murdered millions of people will their stripes be more than mine?
Darrem
--- End quote ---
Darren, we have to remember that the 'stripes' verse is a parable. I believe the understanding is that it refers to two 'breeds' of the Elect or to the called and the Elect, not to unbelievers in general.
I don't think God's plan is to 'punish' us for our sins, no matter how large or small, but to use our sins and sinfulness to convince us that we are nothing without Christ. Even our 'righteousness' is as filthy rags.
This judgement doesn't START with death and resuurection, but has been going on since Adam was in the garden. Paul makes it very clear that it was the very purpose of the Law to not only define what Sin is, but to show us that we cannot under any circumstance follow it in our flesh.
The Pharisees thought they could but Jesus makes it clear that even stringent obedience to the Letter was not enough when He left his 'law'. If the best of the best couldn't follow the letter, how do we hope to follow the spirit? Both laws exist to prove to us what God already knows...that we are carnal, sinful, and unable to do anything good. Read the first few chapters of Romans and you'll get it out of mind that the Law exists so we can follow it.
It seems clear to me from various scripture and Ray's exposition that final judgement (White Throne) for the mass of Humanity includes both Hitlers and The Called, Dahlmer and the Pharisees.
Ask yourself if you think Dahlmer, knowing his sin and sinfulness, will be more easily converted (not punished) than Pharisee X (upright and 'sinless') who goes to his grave convinced of his own righteousness. The judgement of God is for a purpose. That pupose is to mold us into the image of Christ (with ALL that means). That judgement exists now and will continue. When, in each of us, that purpose is fulfilled, there will be no more need for judgement. Stripes? Please, God.
AK4:
Great replies all,
Dave and Darren i look at like this about the stripes.
Compare:
This man cheats on his wife and committs adultery. he has no remorse (really isn't receiving any stripes right now in this age) because he just loves to have sex with alot of different women. And he's an atheist.
Another man cheats on his wife and commits adultery. He has some remorse because he knows that one of the commandments state that thou shall commit adultery. He loves his wife, but he is scared to tell her that he cheated and he suffers all day everyday (he is getting some stripes now) because he knows it was sin and it would kill his wife if she found out.
Another man who knows about the Spirit of the Law where Jesus said to even lust for a women is adultery, never cheated on his wife, but all day at work (lets make this real tough for him) let's say he's a lifeguard on the beautiful beaches in the Bahamas) he sees all sorts of beautiful women in thong bikini's, and he's suffers everyday because his wife has a medical condition where that they cant have relations as often as he would like, so he has alot of "stirred up energy" ;D. He tries his best not to lust after these women but there so beautiful and curvaceous :o and its killing him IN HIS MIND that he can help but look at these women with lust and that he's breaking Jesus' spiritual laws couple that with his looking at them and more than his wife. He tries not to look at them this way, turning his head away when he can but its his job to watch everyone on the beach (man as i type this i am starting to feel real sorry for the guy). So he is receiving daily stripes in this age. this is his hell this is his lake of fire, Gehenna fire till God purges this lust out of him he'll suffer this. But he will one day be freed from that lust/hell/lake of fire.
maybe you can look at those 3 men as this:
the atheist= the lost (well were all lost, but you know what i mean)
the 2ND man = the called
the 3rd = the few
the atheist and the 2ND will have to go to the resurrection of Judgement, but third guy was already judging himself now and made in the first resurrection.
Just my honest opinion,
Anthony
KristaD:
That was an awesome analogy Anthony. I was feeling kind of sorry for the poor guy too :P.
roundbellygroove:
--- Quote ---I believe what it all boils down to is, If you are truly in Christ, then why would you want to sin any more?
--- End quote ---
I think Imabeliever nailed it here. I see it as when the Lord reveals his kingdom to someone its a challenge that you cant turn down. Like in both of the parables of the great pearl & the treasure in the field. The finder of the pearl/treasure has to be shown how much more greater in value that pearl/treasure is worth. In fact it is so much in value that in both instance the person sells everything of value to obtain it! Its only the Lord that can reveal to us the true value of the kingdom than will make us want to turn away from sin. No matter how "hot" the trials may get, you still pursue to get through. There is a real reason to judge yourself. Not because you think you'll be admired by everyone for suffering(like the Pharisees did) or its the fad thing to do at your at your church.(fasting trends) Only the Lord can place that desire in you to want "turn way".
AK4, That funny that you used the analogy of the man dealing with adultery. I currently that guy right now!!! I have nothing against my wife but, I come from a background of cheaters. The majority of all my relatives are in multiple relationships, in and out of romances and getting divorced like it going out of style. :o Plus I can play a mean guitar! Getting the opposite sex to respond is not that hard for me to do, But a chance of being one of Christ's elect? Now that's a challenge worth leaving pot smoking,women chasing, not handling my finances correctly and leaving Babylon(the current church system). Its a tall order but, with Jesus I can overcome it all in the Fathers timing.
OK! Ill get off my soap box. next comment...
--- Quote ---Luke 12:47
And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, But the servant who did things that deserved a beating without knowing it will receive a light beating. Much will be required from everyone to whom much has been given. But even more will be demanded from the one to whom much has been entrusted."
--- End quote ---
In my personal opinion I think who will get it the worst in the lake of fire is all false teachers/believers of the scriptures. I think the wicked when shown the Lords true righteousness will understand and repent. Its all of those *cough,cough* TBN type teachings that will be hard to purge out. I think of all the tough events that I'm going through just to work out the little bit of Babylon in me. Nevermind what its gong to take to fix a false teacher!
anywho, that's my two cents.
roundbelly
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version