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Author Topic: Did Jesus ever get sick?  (Read 14733 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dewey

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus ever get sick?
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2008, 10:32:34 PM »

thanks joe
 dewey and paula in the spirit love ya.
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ez2u

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus ever get sick?
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2008, 11:24:46 PM »

this is something  to think that Jesus was suffering maybe sickly  why would any one want to be with Him?It doesn't make sense to me.  how could it be?  how could he have done the things he did if he was sickly?  My husband is very ill,  his heart is bad  and he is not able to do and go like he did when his heart was better.  Can there not be something more to this?  peggy
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Did Jesus ever get sick?
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2008, 08:23:05 AM »

thanks joe
 dewey and paula in the spirit love ya.

Hi Dewey & Paula,

You are very welcome.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus ever get sick?
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2008, 09:25:14 AM »

Hi Peggy,

The following verses have been quoted previously in this thread but please look at them again;


Isa 53:2  For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form8389 nor comeliness;1926 and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Isa 53:3  He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows,4341 and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised and we esteemed him not.

H8389
תּאר
tô'ar
to'-ar
From H8388; outline, that is, figure or appearance: -  + beautiful, X comely, countenance, + fair, X favoured, form, X goodly, X resemble, visage.

H1926
הדר
hâdâr
haw-dawr'
From H1921; magnificence, that is, ornament or splendor: - beauty, comeliness, excellency, glorious, glory, goodly, honour, majesty.

H4341
מכאבה    מכאוב    מכאב
mak'ôb  mak'ôb  mak'ôbâh
mak-obe', mak-obe', mak-o-baw'
From H3510; anguish or (figuratively) affliction: - grief, pain, sorrow.

Luk 4:23  And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.

I can understand the difficulty of overcoming the worldly, churchian, Hollywood image of Jesus being the quintessential leading man but when we look at all the scriptures that have been quoted in this thread and in Ray's article I have yet to see one that describes Christ as a beautiful physical specimen, we do not get that image from His Word, we get it from church (and worldly) tradition.

Phi 2:7  But made himself of no reputation and took upon him the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men:
 
Phi 2:8  And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
 
Phi 2:9  Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him and given him a name which is above every name:

As far as the ability to work through pain I was a first hand witness to my own parents who worked through pain their entire lives. My Dad was born (1918) with a deformed hip and left leg, it was amputated when he was 2 years old and was in and out of the hospital until about 8 or 9 years old from all the complications of the rather primitive surgery as well as the hip issue that plagued him (in silence) his entire life.

He worked for close to forty years in a low to average paying job with arthritis and a heart condition. He may have missed 5 or 6 days during that entire time as well as working every hour of overtime he was offered. The accumulation of unused sick days helped him to retire a couple years earlier than he otherwise would have been eligible for.

Thankfully he did get those extra couple years as shortly after he retired he was discovered to have colon cancer, a very severe colon cancer which he managed to survive for about 3 years but in a very weak state.

Not once, ever in my life did I hear him say "woe is me" or seek sympathy from anyone, not ever. He worked hard, provided as best he could and did not complain about his afflictions. He was not a religious man, I don't even know the degree of faith he had but he was a real inspiration as an overcomer.

With all that said I do not believe my Dad suffered more than my Lord.

Christ set aside His glory to walk among men as a man, he did not turn stones into bread (or any other food) when fasting in the wilderness, he did not use any of His power for His own self interest, only for the glory of His Father. He not only humbled Himself by becoming lower than the angels as a man but took on man's afflictions as well as suffering temptations, all without sin. Therein lies His beauty, by His suffering, by His love, by His humble spirit, by His sicknesses and pain we are made whole and acceptable to our Father.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
     
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus ever get sick?
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2008, 11:19:21 AM »



Very well put Joe.
He was not just here to share the truth with the world and die on the cross, I believe He wanted to know first hand about this evil experience that man must go through.
I think this verse is key to undestanding what Jesus experienced in His life on earth, in a few different translations.

Isa 53:3 Despised was he, and forsaken of men, Man of pains and familiar with sickness,—Yea, like one from whom the face is hidden, Despised, and we esteemed him not. (Rotherham)

Isa 53:3 Despised is He, and shunned by men, a man of pains and knowing illness. And, as One concealing His face from us, despised is He, and we judge Him of no account."  (CLV)

Isa 53:3  He is despised, and left of men, A man of pains, and acquainted with sickness, And as one hiding the face from us, He is despised, and we esteemed him not. (YLT)

Isa 53:3  He is dispised and abhorred of men, he is such a man as hath good experience of sorowes and infirmities: We haue reckened hym so vile, that we hyd our faces from hym. (Bishop 1568)

Isa 53:3  He was despised and rejected--a man of sorrows, acquainted with bitterest grief. We turned our backs on him and looked the other way when he went by. He was despised, and we did not care. (NLT)

Isa 53:3  He was hated and rejected; his life was filled with sorrow and terrible suffering. No one wanted to look at him. We despised him and said, "He is a nobody!"  (CEV)


mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Linny

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus ever get sick?
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2008, 01:58:17 PM »

Jeff, You made my day. I know EXACTLY the feeling you had. I refer to them as "getting a revelation."

I heard this once and I loved it. FEAR is False Evidence Appearing Real.

The Word says I am not to fear anything man can do to me. It says God will never leave nor forsake me. I meditate on these truths to keep fear away. It does come upon me, believe me, but now only for really big stuff. And I have to spend a lot of time in the Word to keep it at bay.

Dealing with fear is something that God has really worked hard on my husband and I in the past few years. The hardest is releasing those kids. Whew! But I do it daily it seems. Perhaps He is beginning to make this a project for you?

My mentor told me once that fear would be the predominate emotion in the last days and that faith and fear are opposites. I am a much more at peace person now.
 :)

Bless you,
Lin
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JeffH

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus ever get sick?
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2008, 04:46:44 PM »

Dealing with fear is something that God has really worked hard on my husband and I in the past few years. The hardest is releasing those kids. Whew! But I do it daily it seems. Perhaps He is beginning to make this a project for you?

Lol.  Yes it's a project.  I have many.... :)
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Brian

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus ever get sick?
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2008, 08:22:04 PM »

Wow, Brian, that was a great rebuttal.  I didnt put much thought into the paper by Ray (i was more interested in something else), but you have sparked my interest to study up on that.  You did exactly what Ray tells everyone to do and that is to "not to just take his word for it, check the scriptures yourself".

Im not saying right now you or Ray is right, that is not my place but i will study this too and hopefully God will open up my eyes to see what is Truth.

Has anyone showed this rebuttal to Ray, it would be interesting to see his rebuttal?

Anthony

Thank you Anthony,
I too am curious if anyone has shown it to Ray. I guess we will never know. I find it interesting that it was yanked instead of refuted. There is a lot to be learned and each of us, including myself, has to do so by degrees. If anyone wants to teach me, in a gentle loving spirit, then please do so.

For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.
(Ephesians 1:15-23)
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AK4

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus ever get sick?
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2008, 09:42:13 PM »

Brian,
 I asked the Mod and she only moved it because they said it should of been directed to Ray directly, but out of all the emails i have read that Ray has replied to and that are on the BT website yours was the most well thought out one and scriptural and actually had substance.   Great job!! 

So what did you think of the reply i put or what some others had put?  I was probably the only one who got to see what you posted because it stay posted too long.

In Jesus

Anthony
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AK4

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus ever get sick?
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2008, 10:01:02 PM »

oops, that should say that it didnt stay posted too long. :D :D :D
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winner08

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Re: Did Jesus ever get sick?
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2008, 11:33:35 PM »

So is the genral feeling is that Jesus was a sickly human, or not? What say you???

                                           Darren
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus ever get sick?
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2008, 11:53:30 PM »


Hi Brian,

I explained in a pm why I 'yanked' your post, but since it is being discussed let me say this.  It is not the purpose of this forum to refute those who come here and teach something different than what Ray has taught.  At the 2007 Nashville Conference 'WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS? & WHO IS HIS FATHER?' ( http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html ) Ray speaks a good deal about what he felt the Scriptures say about 'Did Jesus ever get sick.'  Your post clearly shows that you think differently about this subject.

Now if as Anthony says, but out of all the emails i have read that Ray has replied to and that are on the BT website yours was the most well thought out one and scriptural and actually had substance. and you feel like this, then by all means send it to Ray and let him do his own refuting.  We do have a rule, If you seriously disagree with Ray, please email him directly.

I hope this does not sound too blunt, I just wanted to explain why this was handled as it was.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Brian

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus ever get sick?
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2008, 12:44:27 AM »

I don't know if anyone read the post by Brian that got moved but i think its both, he was in pain, sickness, and afflicted physically, and also spotless without blemish, spiritually, a worthy sacrifice to God.  reference Malachi 1

Brian i guess that was mainly for you.  Look at it like this----

Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Maybe physically he was what is stated in Isa 53,  but we all know spiritually He was spotless.

Tell me what you think, Brain

If i crossed the line with this post Kat or any of the Mods im sorry it wont happen again

In Jesus

Anthony

Greetings Anthony,

TRUTH NUMBER 1...First the physical and then the spiritual.
(From Ray's Twelve Truths to Understanding His Word)

We know that the Christ was fully human.(cf 1 Tim 2:5, etc.)
I believe we are all in agreement on this. So I really don't think we need dwell on it.

We also know that the living God would protect him physically. (cf Psa 91:11-12; Mat 4:6; Luk 4:11)

This seems to be where we are having difficulty. I won't repeat what I have already stated. (Because I would actually like all to have an opportunity to, as Ray says, use their God given brain.)

The question as I understand it...
Is it possible for the Christ to be physically the description in Isaiah 53 and be spiritually unblemished?

The only answer I can give is what I have previously stated.

Also, I would like to state that if truth # 1 is of any value it would and should be applied to this question.

Much Love in Christ
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AK4

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus ever get sick?
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2008, 06:07:38 PM »

Hi Brian,

I look at it this way: Ray used scripture to prove his point and you did also.  So what i've been meditating on these last couple of days since your post is how can we put yours and Rays proof scriptures together.  I've been trying to find scriptures to help with your point and Rays.  Well let me try to get to it.

All of Mal 1 has to be God looking at the heart and intentions of the Isrealites when they had to sacrifice.  Lets just examine the hearts of them first.  Well i was going to explain verse by verse but i am sure you can see how God is showing the heart of the Isrealites when it came to sacrifices and even their heart towards Him.

They--were ungrateful
          had no respect
         showed contempt by placing defile food on his altar
         thought the sacrifices were burdensome and something to sneer at
         were cheaters and robbers of God

Mal 1:7  Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible.

lekh'-em
From H3898; food (for man or beast), especially bread, or grain (for making it): - ([shew-]) bread, X eat, food, fruit, loaf, meat, victuals. See also H1036.
shool-khawn'
From H7971; a table (as spread out); by implication a meal: - table.

baw-zaw'
A primitive root; to disesteem: - despise, disdain, contemn (-ptible), + think to scorn, vile person.

What symbolizes bread--who is the bread of Life? Jesus. What is Jesus? The Word of God.  What could the Isrealites been defiling? His Word and bringing this into the temple.  where is the temple?  We are his temple. 

So look at v7 like they are saying "the meal/bread (Word) of the Lord is like a vile person"

v 14 pretty much summarizes all of chapter 1 showing how the heart of the Isrealites were.  They made the vow to keep Gods Word and but obviously they didnt.

Now how can we apply this to Christ and how Christ heart was toward God.

Was He ungrateful?
Did He have respect?
Place defile food on his altar?
think He being the sacrifice for all burdensome and something to sneer at?
A cheater or robber of God?

We all know the answer to each of those and the scriptures to back them up.

Brian remember where i posted that his Words are Spirit.  Look at Mal 1 like this and you will see the spiritual in it and how Christ still could have carried our sicknesses and still be an acceptable sacrifice to the Lord.

Also v13 and 14 when applied to Christ, who's hand is offering the sacrifice of Christ?  Is he the acceptible male who  kept his vow to the Lord?  You know the answer.

IMO this is how what you and what Ray revealed, through Him, that all of his scripture is one and their are no contradictions.

I hope this helps and i didnt stretch it to far.

In Jesus

Anthony


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AK4

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus ever get sick?
« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2008, 09:05:09 PM »

Hey Brian,

What's (this apostrophe thing is killing me) :-X your take on what I put above.  I'm (ugh there it is again) :-X very interested in what you think.

Anthony
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