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John 1:1-5
Kat:
I think the Scripture in Revelation does cause a bit of phase on this matter, as Young's gives it a bit of a different perspective...
Rev 3:14 `And to the messenger of the assembly of the Laodiceans write: These things saith the Amen, the witness--the faithful and true--the chief of the creation of God;
And it is this passage in Hebrews that makes me hesitate on Christ having a beginning. We know He was Melchizedek from the OT and this is what it says of Him.
Heb 7:1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of God Most High, who meets with Abraham returning from the combat with the kings and blesses him,
v. 2 to whom Abraham parts a tithe also, from all; being first, indeed, translated king of righteousness,yet thereupon king of Salem, also, which is "king of Peace";"
v. 3 fatherless, motherless, without a genealogy, having neither a beginning of days nor consummation of life, yet picturing the Son of God is remaining a priest to a finality."
And this verse...
Heb 9:11 But, when Christ approached, as high-priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect tent, not made by hand, that is, not of this creation,— (Rotherham)
Christ was with the Father before the universe.
John 17:5 And, now, glorify Me—thou, Father! with Thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world’s existence, with Thee.
I think our understanding on this is hampered by comparing this to what we have here in the physical. So before the creation of this universe Christ was with the Father and they were One, as in mind and will.
There does seem that there was some kind of individualness in their being, before the universe, as there appears to be some kind of separation in beings. Maybe their relationship at that time is not something that can be explained in physical terms. Christ was always the spokesman/Word of the Father, but it was when Christ was born of Mary that He actually became the Father's Son. And we never knew of the Father until Christ revealed Him.
Mat 11:27 All things have been delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
A lot to consider, I guess we have to pray for our spiritual eyes to be opened a little wider to comprehend all this :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
AK4:
Great points Kat :) ;) :D ;D 8)
mharrell08:
Ditto Kat :D
Akira329:
Why can't Jesus be both created and begotten??
Roy Monis:
--- Quote from: Kat on August 22, 2008, 10:41:34 AM ---
I think the Scripture in Revelation does cause a bit of phase on this matter, as Young's gives it a bit of a different perspective...
Rev 3:14 `And to the messenger of the assembly of the Laodiceans write: These things saith the Amen, the witness--the faithful and true--the chief of the creation of God;
And it is this passage in Hebrews that makes me hesitate on Christ having a beginning. We know He was Melchizedek from the OT and this is what it says of Him.
Heb 7:1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of God Most High, who meets with Abraham returning from the combat with the kings and blesses him,
v. 2 to whom Abraham parts a tithe also, from all; being first, indeed, translated king of righteousness,yet thereupon king of Salem, also, which is "king of Peace";"
v. 3 fatherless, motherless, without a genealogy, having neither a beginning of days nor consummation of life, yet picturing the Son of God is remaining a priest to a finality."
And this verse...
Heb 9:11 But, when Christ approached, as high-priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect tent, not made by hand, that is, not of this creation,— (Rotherham)
Christ was with the Father before the universe.
John 17:5 And, now, glorify Me—thou, Father! with Thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world’s existence, with Thee.
I think our understanding on this is hampered by comparing this to what we have here in the physical. So before the creation of this universe Christ was with the Father and they were One, as in mind and will.
There does seem that there was some kind of individualness in their being, before the universe, as there appears to be some kind of separation in beings. Maybe their relationship at that time is not something that can be explained in physical terms. Christ was always the spokesman/Word of the Father, but it was when Christ was born of Mary that He actually became the Father's Son. And we never knew of the Father until Christ revealed Him.
Mat 11:27 All things have been delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
A lot to consider, I guess we have to pray for our spiritual eyes to be opened a little wider to comprehend all this :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Hi! Kathy
Your quote; Heb 7:1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of God Most High, who meets
with Abraham returning from the combat with the kings and blesses him, v. 2 to whom Abraham
parts a tithe also, from all; being first, indeed, translated king of righteousness,yet thereupon king
of Salem, also, which is "king of Peace";" v. 3 fatherless, motherless, without a genealogy, having
neither a beginning of days nor consummation of life, yet picturing the Son of God is remaining a
priest to a finality."
Is this not what I've been saying all along that the Word/the Son/the Most High Priest/Christ call Him what you will, what's the difference they are all the same God, no mother, of the Old Testament continuing to do the Will of the Father. This is the same Word that started the creation of the universe in obedience to the Father's Will. When it came time for the promised Messiah, the Word/Christ/Son of God entered the body that was prepared in advance; "Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, “Sacrifice and offering You have not desired, But a body You have prepared for Me; Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, “Sacrifice and offering You have not desired, But a body You have prepared for Me; In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure. “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me) To do Your will, O God.’" (Heb.10:5-7).
It was this body occupied by the Word/Son of God that was implanted into Mary by The Father's Spirit to be called by the earthly name Jesus. Hence Jesus becomes the Christ/Son of God and the Creator of all things. "For to which of the angels did He ever say, “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again, “I will be a Father to Him And He shall be a Son to Me”? And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “And let all the angels of God worship Him.”" (Heb.1:5-6). The first time the Word was begotten of the Father was before creation, "I will surely tell of the decree of the Lord: He said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You." (Ps.2:7). This now is the Word/Son's second birth, when He again brings the firstborn into the world as Jesus the promised Christ/Messiah "But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;" (Heb.9:11).
Whichever way we look at it, He certainly wasn't created or we'd be worshiping the creature and not the Creator.
God bless you sister in our joint walk in Christ.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK
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