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[Phill B]

Ray said:

My wife and I met with Dr. Steger yesterday and discussed our situation.  Dr. Steger is a man of faith, and is adamant about keeping God’s laws of health and nutrition.  He kindly stated:  “You break God’s laws and sooner or later He will smack you down.”  He knows a little of my faith, and flatly told me and my wife, that he could not cure me, but that if I was to be cured, it would have to come from God.  We were agreed on this.

What can I learn from God about the tragedy that Ray is going through now I wonder?

I would be grateful if someone could direct me to Scripture about keeping God’s laws of health and nutrition.

Is Dr Steger inferring that Ray did not follow some of these laws, hence he is being 'smacked down' by God?

[Vangie]

A loved one that I shared Ray's story with seemed to zero in on that same inference.  I haven't yet responded--I'm not sure either if there is scripture that backs up Dr. Steger's statement.  Hopefully it was just an unwise choice of words by a well meaning person, as the love our God has towards His creation, especially His servants like Ray, is not even relative to our past physical sins right?  I look forward to other responses here.  I do feel that God led Ray to Dr. Steger, thus I respect whatever purpose He means for him to serve in Ray's life (here), but Dr. Steger is not our teacher, and I don't think we should give more weight to his comment than is warranted.  Just my 2 cents and thank you for listening.

Love in Christ,
Vangie

[Linny]

Having studied Biblical nutrition for over 10 years, may I attempt to share a little of what I've learned?
I think, first, that is was a well-meaning bad choice of words by the doctor.
Second, in the beginning, I also felt that God gave us "laws" about food. But 10 years later, I wouldn't say that anymore. We are no longer under food laws and nothing is unclean.
We went from total "veganism" to just vegetarianism back to what we think is a better, more balanced way.

We do not eat a perfect diet but we have found that if we eat closest to food's natural state, we feel better and stay healthier. We buy organic meat as much as we can, we buy raw dairy as much as we can. My studies say that the stuff being injected into our food supply is very bad for us. I try to cook from scratch and eat as little pre-made, frozen, boxed stuff as possible.

I don't microwave our food. We eat whole grains but could do without grains altogether and be better off. The food pyramid was bought and paid for so we ignore it.

Vegetarians lack certain vitamins so I think meat is needed (for about 2/3 of the population) in much smaller quantities than most eat and raised in free range, non-injected (steroids and growth hormones)states. We have also found that the foods in Leviticus that were deemed "unclean" are actually not healthy. So while I do not think it is a sin to eat pork or shrimp, I eat it RARELY because it isn't good for my body.

We think probiotics and enzymes are great for us and keep us healthy and we also clean out our colons every year. 

We treat illnesses naturally and don't listen to what the medical industry deems good for us because they are also bought and paid for by pharmaceutical companies. (We don't take drugs either.)

My children never had formula or jarred baby food, are unvaccinated and don't catch anything from anyone because their immune systems were allowed to grow naturally. Neither have ever been to a doctor with an illness and the worst thing they've had is maybe 1-2 colds each year that last about a day or two at most. One is 10 and the other is 7.

What a blessing to have healthy kids! 

God pulled us out of other worldly systems (like the medical field) long before He pulled us out of the church. We question EVERY worldly system run by man. We have been blessed by what we have learned.
I believe it because by living it and raising my kids in it, we see the results!

I am so excited that Ray is going natural for his cancer. I know lots of people cured of cancer, diabetes, etc. etc. by going natural.
God is good!!!

I have not found any one person or book that I think has all the right answers. But I have read literally thousands of pages and hundreds of nutrition writers and formed my own beliefs accordingly. I strongly advocate everyone studying and learning and reading and taking responsibility for their own health. That is what Ray did! YEA!!!!

Linny

[AK4]

Great post Linny,

I got a question.  How expensive is it to try buy everything or most of your food organic?  how bad is it to microwave food? What microwaving organic foods? (I love my microwave) 

God pulled us out of other worldly systems (like the medical field) long before He pulled us out of the church. We question EVERY worldly system run by man. We have been blessed by what we have learned

That's exactly what i've put at the bottom of my posts.  I'm thinking about getting some bumper stickers that say that.  Maybe I should shave my head and get it tatooed there. 

Nice post again Linny.

In Jesus,

Anthony

[Roy Monis]

Ray said:

My wife and I met with Dr. Steger yesterday and discussed our situation.  Dr. Steger is a man of faith, and is adamant about keeping God’s laws of health and nutrition.  He kindly stated:  “You break God’s laws and sooner or later He will smack you down.”  He knows a little of my faith, and flatly told me and my wife, that he could not cure me, but that if I was to be cured, it would have to come from God.  We were agreed on this.

What can I learn from God about the tragedy that Ray is going through now I wonder?

I would be grateful if someone could direct me to Scripture about keeping God’s laws of health and nutrition.

Is Dr Steger inferring that Ray did not follow some of these laws, hence he is being 'smacked down' by God?

Hi! All

It is not God but Dr Steger who is smacking Ray down on his own teaching. ALL IS OF GOD. So Ray should keep well away from Dr Steger and place himself in the lap of his God. "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And do not lean on your own understanding. (Pro.3:5)  That is the best advice Dr Steger could have given. God is in control and His Will will be done. We have to unite in prayer on his behalf and of all our fellow member sufferers who are in need of prayer. God is no respecter of persons so we have to pray, in the sincere hope. that these cures being prayed for are in His predestined Will that's what miracles are, not a change in God's predestined plan.

God never changes, what is has already been. "That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun."  (Eccl.1:9).  From man's perspective it is all present and future but from Gods perspective it is already done and it's history, His predestined plan. There is nothing new under the sun.

May God bless and heal you Ray and all our brothers and sisters who are in need of healing. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     

[Heidi]

We have to unite in prayer on his behalf and of all our fellow member sufferers who are in need of prayer. God is no respecter of persons so we have to pray, in the sincere hope. that these cures being prayed for are in His predestined Will that's what miracles are, not a change in God's predestined plan.
[/quote]

Amen to that Roy!!!

Love Heidi

[carol v]

Linny I agree with most of what you said about great health tips because we are to treat our bodies as temples -- BUT -- you have been blessed with good health and healthy children. You are obviously a great mom but you are a blessed mom.

I have had chronic migraines for 40 years now so have a somewhat different perspective. I have read, studied and researched every thing I could find for years. I've tried herbs, vitamins, acupuncture, chiropractors, biofeedback, the migraine diet and every "cure" on the market. I've been through all the pharmaceuticals as well from beta blockers to antidepressants for prevention and many pain relievers. I had migraines before there was medicine specifically for migraines.

The emergency room was my forced mode of treatment for decades and then I had a decade of very painful self-injections but now,  thank God, there are meds available that keep me out of the ER. Big Pharma charges me an arm and a leg for the Zomig I take BUT it has kept me from chopping my head off.

I am talking about 40 years of sometimes daily migraine -- and then I'll go through periods of great relief where I'll only have 2 or 3 a month. Without the medical establishment of Babylon I would have preferred death. In the last century I would have been buying those bottles of "tonic" with codeine and sucking them down.

And without the "worldly" medical establishment I would have died in childbirth. Luke was a physician.

A very close friend was an SDA and followed the health laws of Scripture pretty closely. She was vegetarian though. She died of breast cancer last year at 52.

My father died of cancer and chemo made him miserable. My SDA friend and my best friend 20 years ago both died of cancer and chemo made them miserable. I am also glad Ray is going natural. I would go the hyperbaric/oxygenating route myself and know that if it worked it was of God and if it didn't it was of God. I might try the Cancer Center of America because they mix natural with medical.

But a healthy diet didn't keep Ray's son alive and an unhealthy diet didn't "smack" Ray.

I agree with Roy but I don't think we are to "test" God by saying "heal me or nothing." God is using Dr. Stegler to His Purpose. He has used my lifetime of migraines to His Purpose. He has blessed me through the worldly medical system.

The leading cause of death is ... birth. It's just a question of what kind of death we have.

Yes, Heidi we must all unite in prayer. God's Will will be done.

Carol

[KristaD]

Linny, your family sounds very much like ours . It's refreshing to see someone else who has had the same revelations that we have.

[Linny]

Hi Carol,
I am so sorry about your migraines. I have a dear friend who suffers so much from them. I haven't researched them as you have so I cannot answer why you have not found an answer. I am sure that God is using them for good in your life. But I also cannot say that there isn't an answer either. I see a lot of articles about them at mercola.com. Perhaps there is something there you have not tried, perhaps not. I understand your life experiences have led you to better feelings about the medical system. Mine have not. I watched my father lose all quality of life and die this year because of the medical system he put his trust in and I am doing my best to pull my mom out of it before it is too late for her. I have spent the last 2 weeks watching her be poked and drugged in the hospital and she is in re-hab now. Had I not known so many people to find healing outside that system, I would probably feel as you do.

But I have to say that I was not always a healthy person. I suffered from constant headaches till I went off artificial sweeteners. I used to have colds, flus, sinus infections, kidney infections, chronic yeast infections, abnormal cell growth in my uterus, I was also unable to have babies and not ovulating. My life changes that I was blessed to find changed all that for me.  I was a baby with chronic ear infections. My kids have never had a single one.  I don't think it is just that I am blessed that my kids are so healthy since the only other kids I know that are this healthy also were raised as mine. I don't think it is a coincidence. I do consider myself blessed however to have been given this information.

I hope I don't sound like I am arguing with you. It is a very tough issue and close to everyones hearts since we all have our own life experiences that go into our beliefs. I just wanted to say that from my life experience, I have found so much peace where we are and want to share that with anyone who will listen. Disease just doesn't scare me anymore as I truly believe that I can find healing from ANYTHING without the trauma of doctors, drugs and side-effects. It is a peace I wish for everyone. Having healthy children is an amazing blessing and my heart breaks for families who deal with sick children especially when I feel like what I have learned could help them.

Anthony, organic is expensive! We are on disability pay and we have no extra income so we have to be very picky about where we choose to be "extravagant." That is why I buy organic meat (mainly for my kids) and we buy organic carrots just because the others are nasty after you have tried organic and we juice them when we can afford it. I buy organic Romaine lettuce as it isn't that bad. I buy local and farmer's market as much as I can.
But otherwise, unless I find a great sale or a good price, we can't buy organic. But I read labels and buy food without added sugar, corn syrup, preservatives, etc.

The microwave reformulates the cells in your food and kills it more than stove top cooking. I just don't cook in it as dead food, organic or not, is pretty useless to my live cells and I don't like being in the room with the micro-waves. 

KristaD! We need to talk! 

[Craig]

I agree Carol, we sometimes forget how much medicine has helped us and take it for granted.

Unlike our forefathers we don't have to worry about the horrible disease of smallpox and polio.  Many, many died of the horrible death of caused by tetanus.  Typhoid and a host of other childhood illnesses are nearly a thing of the past.  

Does the medical establishment have its problems?  Definitely, but we should not throw out the baby with the bath water.  And we should thank God that these diseases are something less we have to worry about now.

My 3 cents

Craig

[musicman]

I agree that Ray is making the best choice available to him.  The Chemo should be tried when it can lead to a normal life.  The injections Ray spoke of would only prolong his life a few painful years.  Ray did not pull the name, Dr. Steger, out of a hat.  He did much research and was lucky that a successful holistic medicine man lives near him.  

Now, about Steger's comment:

We are making a big deal over something that doesn't need to have an exact scriptural reference (who knows, maybe there is).  The scriptures talk about sin and as Ray points out, a sin is falling short of the mark, or a mistake.  I have no idea what Ray's diet consisted of but I am certain that there are 90 year olds that probably ate way more unhealthy.  Our genetics are predetermined by God.  Now, just because there might be 90 year olds that treated their bodies like garbage disposals, does not mean that they were not sinning with their habbits.  It is a mistake to eat unhealthy.  Therefore, every unhealthy meal consumed, has got to be considered a sin.  Sometimes we pay for our sins with acid reflux.  Sometimes, our indulgences lead to diabetes.  Sometimes, cancer is the result of diet or smoking.  Even if someone fully repents of their past lusts, they may still experience tribulation.  But many never experience anything from sin, and they continue doing it their entire lives.  Are they winning the race?, or losing the battle?

[hillsbororiver]

A very thoughtful and well reasoned post Musicman, bottom line is we do not have much control over our lifespans, of course it is prudent to live a healthy lifestyle but it will not ensure a disease free life or add one extra day to our physical life than what God has ordained.

There are lessons to be learned through these (sickness) experiences and many if not most are very unpleasant for all involved, sometimes it is good to just observe and listen (with faith and patience) as these things play out yet always remain hopeful and encouraging to others.

As far as dietary instructions go Carol mentioned the Seventh Day Adventists and their diet doctrine, they use Genesis 1:29 as the outline for what man should or should not eat, this is a vegetarian diet. Others use the dietary instructions in Deuteronomy in the preparation of meat and what is clean and unclean.

Peace,

Joe

[carol v]

Linny, I sure don't want to argue with you either because I agree with you basically. I buy and eat organic as much as I can. Avoid doctors. Read labels. Take the natural way whenever possible but have never found a natural treatment to help headaches. Yes, I've been to Mercola. The last thing I tried was rubbing my head with lemon rinds and tying it with a bandana. Haha. I've tried it all. I always have hope when I hear about something new and am always refilling my prescription shortly thereafter.

We should treat our bodies as temples but it won't add another day to our lives. It might add quality to our lives however.

As I mentioned, I have had terrible experiences with the traditional route of medicine as well and think the pharmaceutical companies are greedy and deceptive corporations that have done some good in spite of themselves. But I need them.

Since finding God's truth and sovereignty, I have realized that my own headaches have served to be an ongoing trial and tribulation that probably kept me from being a raging alcoholic. I am sure they have had a purpose but I have trouble rejoicing about it some days.

Joe is right. It's good to eat healthy but it won't add a day to the span of life that God predetermined for us. But, it will make the quality of that life span better. I have thrown garbage in my temple on many occasions and paid the physical price.

Just don't get roped into those folks like the Garden of Life fellow that is making a mint selling books and supplements based on his "scripture" diet. There are a bunch of them out there.

My basic plan is to eat God's food as natural as possible. I get most agitated when someone tries to blame God's food, like eggs, for disease and then sell us some man-made substitute. 

C.

[Linny]

I am right there with you Carol on the people making a fortune in the nutritional area just like in the medical field as money seems to change everything once greed comes in. I don't follow any one person or put my trust in supplements. I use some supplements but I think food is the best medicine. Like I said, we went from vegan to vegetarian to balanced.

And Craig, having studied the history of disease, I don't give the medical establishment credit for the wiping out of disease any longer. Diseases run their course and God is the One who designed humans to build natural immunities and push out these killers. Vaccines were always introduced AFTER the disease had began to disappear. I've seen the charts. Polio was even re-defined to make it look like the polio vaccine worked. Like I said, and like Anthony said, question everything and question it until you get to the truth. If money is involved, question.

George Carlin said, ""The consensus reality is often intentionally misleading." I still highly recommend the paper I mentioned in another post, WHY AMERICANS WILL BELIEVE ALMOST ANYTHING. Just because it is the consensus, doesn't make it true. I apply this to every single man-made institution.

If I were in an accident, find me a doctor! If I am sick, I am the doctor.

[ciy]

One of the basic themes of the bible is that the majority (many called) are wrong and the minority (few chosen) are right.

CIY

[KristaD]

I am right there with you Carol on the people making a fortune in the nutritional area just like in the medical field as money seems to change everything once greed comes in. I don't follow any one person or put my trust in supplements. I use some supplements but I think food is the best medicine. Like I said, we went from vegan to vegetarian to balanced.

And Craig, having studied the history of disease, I don't give the medical establishment credit for the wiping out of disease any longer. Diseases run their course and God is the One who designed humans to build natural immunities and push out these killers. Vaccines were always introduced AFTER the disease had began to disappear. I've seen the charts. Polio was even re-defined to make it look like the polio vaccine worked. Like I said, and like Anthony said, question everything and question it until you get to the truth. If money is involved, question.

George Carlin said, ""The consensus reality is often intentionally misleading." I still highly recommend the paper I mentioned in another post, WHY AMERICANS WILL BELIEVE ALMOST ANYTHING. Just because it is the consensus, doesn't make it true. I apply this to every single man-made institution.

If I were in an accident, find me a doctor! If I am sick, I am the doctor.

Couldn't agree with this more!!

[Craig]

And Craig, having studied the history of disease, I don't give the medical establishment credit for the wiping out of disease any longer. Diseases run their course and God is the One who designed humans to build natural immunities and push out these killers. Vaccines were always introduced AFTER the disease had began to disappear. I've seen the charts. Polio was even re-defined to make it look like the polio vaccine worked

I have studied the histories of disease and it comes down to who you are going to believe. I have seen the charts you mentioned and their data is error (no, not err it is lies.)  An error would be a mistake, a lie makes up data to fit a preconceived outcome.  And everyone does it.   I agree the God is in charge of all that happens, he also gives the medical scientists the knowledge to develop ways to fight disease.  I agree that the medical establishment has its problems and money is driving much of what we have, and we should always question our doctors and develop treatment that is right for us.  I also know that the people preaching against the "establishment" also make a fortune and have turned their crusade into a religion, and like to spread fear and doubt.

You are fortunate to have a family with good health.  What would you do if suddenly a child became type 1 diabetic?  If you don't use the gift of insulin that God provided to medicine then I'm afraid your child would die.  And don't tell me that there is a "natural cure", there is not one legitimate documented cased of a natural cure to type 1 diabetes recorded. But there are many hucksters on the web promoting their "natural cure" and claiming a cure.  Not long ago in the news, some parents let their child die of type 1 diabetes because their religion taught them that prayer was the only treatment they needed.  A .50 cent shot of insulin would have saved her life.  With all that said however, God could heal if he so desires.

If tomorrow, suddenly, a vaccine came out that protected against cancer 99% of the time would we take it?

Everyone should use our common sense on what treatments we take, if we have a disease with a sure science cure, would we decide to take our chances eating seaweed and getting rid of chemicals in our homes or take the medicine and get well?  I'm not knocking taking care of what we put in our bodies, but being militant about these lifestyle choices becomes an "idol of the heart"  God is in charge, I can show you people who were vegans and anal about what they eat and what they let near them and they die of lung cancer at 35 years of age.  I can also introduce you to a woman I know who is 96 years young and a 2 pack a day smoker since her twenties, she drinks and exercise is not in her vocabulary.  God is the one who numbers our days, not us.

I do believe money for research is limited because companies spend the money on treatments of disease instead of curing disease.  There is not as much to be made in a cure.

And one other point I would like to make is this, rich people die of disease the same as the poor.  If there was a cure for disease and the pharmaceuticals are keeping it from us, then the CEO's of these companies and their families would not be dieing of disease the same as the rest of us, but they do.  People who preach natural only cures should live to be at least 80, but they don't.  God is in charge and numbers our days.

If you don't believe that medicine hasn't helped to eradicate the diseases I mentioned, then I guess I am now................ speechless.

Craig

[Linny]

My sources are not anti-medical, they are medical researchers with dates and facts.

Pharma scientists don't look for cures, they look for treatments for symptoms and a way to make a billion dollars before they get sued.

I have no fear of my children becoming type 1 anything. The childhood diseases of today were rare to none when I was a child. What's different? Medical intervention. A new drugstore on every corner. A new vaccine for everything.

We will have to agree to disagree. 

Peace,
Linny

[KristaD]

My sources are not anti-medical, they are medical researchers with dates and facts.

Pharma scientists don't look for cures, they look for treatments for symptoms and a way to make a billion dollars before they get sued.

I have no fear of my children becoming type 1 anything. The childhood diseases of today were rare to none when I was a child. What's different? Medical intervention. A new drugstore on every corner. A new vaccine for everything.

We will have to agree to disagree. 

Peace,
Linny

What else is different? McDonalds 3x a week, preservatives in everything, food dyes, high fructose corn syrup.... I could go on. The fact is the health of america is declining as americans get further away from a natural lifestyle and natural foods.

[Jackie Lee]

I attempt to eat as healthy as possible but has anyone seen this video?
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/447498/youll_never_eat_pork_again/