bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5]   Go Down

Author Topic: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?  (Read 36199 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Linny

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #80 on: September 04, 2008, 01:57:47 AM »

Alex, I apologize for any offense I may have caused to you. I understand the passion we have for the things we believe in and want to do with our lives.

Once upon a time, I was devoted to the field of Psychology, then to the nursing field and in nursing school. Then I was devoted to the field of public education, moving to private education, and now to home school education. What Brenda said so well, was so true. Life hits us hard as we grow older and learn more and experience more. When we have been harmed by those that we put our trust in, we want to spare others that hurt.

It isn't about individual people but about a system set up by mankind and run by greed. So the people who have great intentions to help and want to help are not the problem. It is no different than any other man-made system that has been corrupted. The church, the educational system, sports, government, you name it.

The world and her ways are the problem.

We need doctors who care and who are open to learning truths and are willing to go against the grain if need be.  A BT doctor would, I think, be automatically more open-minded than most other people, don't you think??

Brenda! My poor sweetie had to have 2 knee surgeries in 5 months! No drugs? Please! He didn't stay on them for long (too addictive) but he wouldn't have made it through the first 2 days without them. And neither would I! ::)

Lin

Logged

OBrenda

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #81 on: September 04, 2008, 04:13:10 PM »

Brenda,
Tell me if I am wrong but I am wondering if what you posted about the
Epigenetic Therapy is a lot like the following.
I believe that we are born with certain genetic factors that predispose us to certain disease. Some are born with tendencies towards heart disease and others to cancer, etc.
But with environmental factors being different or changed, we can alter what we were born with to some extent. Meaning, if we eat and live exactly as our parents, we will have the same diseases. But if we change our environment from what we eat to how we move and the chemicals we are exposed to, we can alter that.

My babies were fed completely differently than most children and I can see now at age 10 and 7 how that has affected their state of health.
They just don't catch anything. Each gets a 24 hour cold about once or twice a year. It is amazing to see.

Would you say this is what the program you watched was saying?
It sounds very interesting...

In answer to Linny,

I wish they had the complete program to watch but this gives a good chunk of it....

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3411/02.html

I think it is saying to me....Cause and effect....which we already believe here at BT!
But the effects of our health have many avenues beyond just our choices,
Our Health is effected by generations before us.
And the choices we make will effect our children & granchildren.
And there are things that have effects that are beyond our control. 

As You are already doing, we need to the best of our ability, make the best choices...
and leave the rest up to God.

What did you get out of it?
Brenda
Logged

Linny

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #82 on: September 04, 2008, 06:26:10 PM »

Thanks Brenda, I'll click on that later and watch it all. But it seems to be what I was thinking.

I had read studies that looked at mice generations fed well vs. fed badly. The poorly fed ones had babies that got sicklier and sicklier with each generation. Then they would start feeding them better and watch each generation improve.

I've read that people in our generation tend to get their parent's diseases about 10-20 years sooner.

That is why I have worked so hard to change my kids diets/environment for the better. I am hoping that they will continue this with their own and we'll turn around some of the nasty diseases my parents deal with now.



Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #83 on: September 05, 2008, 11:14:51 AM »


Hi Brenda and Lin,

I've been reading along and the pass generations certainly have effected what our bodies are prone to have go wrong.  But I'm with you Lin in that I'm really beginning to understand that we can make a major difference with our diets/environment. 

The illness that Ray is going through and that the diet he is on now has caused me to check into body pH and I see it as extremely important in maintaining good health.  If we keep our body within the proper pH range, this wonderful body we have is able to employ it's own disease fighting defences and fight off most anything.

The alkaline forming foods that should be high on our list of consumption are vegetables like asparagus, artichokes, lettuce, onion, peas, spinach, carrots, green beans, and broccoli, to name a few. Fruits include watermelon (one of the highest alkaline forming fruits), lemon (another high one), tomato, avocado, and grapefruit. Other alkaline forming foods are sprouts, legumes, nuts, seeds, herbal tea, and vegetable juice.  The key is to go with FRESH foods as much as possible.  Drink lots of water it is neutral and flashes the acid out of our system.

But to maintain pH balance, you should eat a minimal amount of acid forming foods.  Examples of these foods are meats, poultry, most seafood, sweets, white bread, white pasta, chocolate, coffee, soda, fruit juice, and most oils. A very important thing to understand is that all processed foods are acid forming.  You don't have to totally avoid eating these foods, but keep these foods within the 20-25 percent proportion of your diet. These list do seem to vary from one site to the other and how a food is processed can cause it to be more acid forming.

I was totally ignorant to this, before Ray's illness.  Now I just feel this is so important to understand.  Just making a few changes to your diet can help a great deal.  Just thought I would post this for those who might be interested.

mercy, peace and love
Kathy

Logged

Samson

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #84 on: September 05, 2008, 01:08:51 PM »

I can't believe all this talk about don't listen to this doctor and don't listen to that doctor is still going on. Do you guys know the amount of studying and schooling it takes to become a medical doctor? Your doctor isn't an idiot, and if i was you i would listen to him. Yes their are bad doctors out their, but that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the dirty bathwater now does it? Bad apple in every basket, but for the most part, 90% of doctors, if not more, are good doctors who know what they are talking about. They tell you things not because they don't know what their talking about, but because they genuinely believe it is in your best interested and for YOUR health.

Just curiouse, are any of you Medical doctors in here? If so, than by all means please give us your input.

God bless,

Alex

Hello Alex,

                The Discussion of Nutrition and how certain Macronutrients(Proteins, Carbohydrates and Fats) affect ones health and in some cases how these Macronutrients stimulate ones appetite doesn't fully enter the realm of a Medical Doctor. If the Doctors discipline is in Nutrition, like Dr. Atkins and others, they are more educated and equipped to handle these issues. Actually Dr. Atkins was a Cardiologist firstly. I appreciate and respect your hard work and focus towards eventually becoming a Medical Doctor. If my memory serves me correctly, in Dr. Atkins original Low Carb book written in the early 1970's, he mentions the great influence that the Cereal and Food Industry uses to persuade Doctors to malign the eating of eggs and Protein foods in general, especially Proteins that have a high fat content, attempting to prove that eating dietary Cholesterol would cause an increase in their serum Cholesterol and Triglycerides(High Density & Low Density Lipoproteins). The Food Industry in General, especially the  Cereal Industry pays handsomely to Nutritionists and some Medical Doctors to do research to support their eating cereal and avoiding foods that contain Dietary Fats and Cholesterol. Cholesterol is technically not even a fat, it's a natural Steroid Hormone as contained in Egg Yolks. Actually Genetics, too much stress, smoking and too much sugar(glucose, fructose, dextrose, corn syrup and any word that ends with ose, foodwise) causes a rise in Cholesterol Levels. Of course regular exercise will help to minimize some of the effects from ones dietary intake.

                              The Traditional Formula of eating 55-60%(Carbohydrate, mostly complex), 20%(Protein), 20%(Fats) is probably sound from a Nutritious Diet point of view, especially when coming from Natural Sources, however in my Post, I was focusing on how many people with weight problems can't tolerate too many Carbohydrates of any kind, in that THEIR APPETITES ARE OVERLY STIMULATED TO THE POINT, THEY CAN'T CONTROL THEIR HUNGER and it has nothing to do with willpower, because they are overwhelmed by their hunger pangs for food.

                               From a Biochemical point of view, as Mike Mentzer(he studied Medicine & Nutrition, Premed) has stated and many others, A CALORIE IS A CALORIE, aside from the nutrition health of it. What I mean by that is that if anyone consumes less calories then what the Body needs for energy, repair and growth, they will lose weight, so what happens is that those that can't tolerate too much sugar, when their predominate intake is made of Proteins and Fats, their appetite will decrease, because of the satiating effect that Fats and Proteins have on their appetites and they will consume less total calories causing them to eventually lose weight without so much suffering.

                              It should be understood that Dr. Atkins isn't recommending that everyone stays at 10 grams of dietary carbohydrates or less for the rest of their lives, only a small percentage of people who have a high intolerance for Carbs of any kind; everyone else should gradually add Carbs until they reach the level where they don't gain or lose weight, for some fortunate people, that's 100 grams daily(mostly the healthy carbs).

                              None of the above is meant as criticism of Medical Doctors or anyone for that matter, but to emphasize that Politics and money are behind some of these Nutritional persuasions. Undoubtedly, their are emotional and cultural factors influencing ones eating habits.

                                      More than enough said, Kind regards, Samson. 
Logged

carol v

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #85 on: September 05, 2008, 01:41:47 PM »

I'm sorry Alex but we have been talking about a lot of things on this thread and I even went back on this whole page and never saw once "don't listen to this doctor and don't listen to that doctor."

We are just talking about natural ways to find healing using all the things God has given us.

If you choose to use doctors, then go for it. It is your right to do so. Just as it is my right to read for myself and try other things.

By the way, I have gotten a lot of my information, especially regarding child issues, from a Pediatric doctor with 30 years experience who teaches when you need a doctor, and when you don't. It was his very educated opinion that we have used doctors way too much and to our detriment.


Bless you,
Lin



Carol V wrote; "PLEASE -- don't listen to that doctor"

Edit: Sorry carol V, i'm not trying to pick on your or anything.. simply showing LIN that i had reason for what i said.




ALEX QUIT PICKING ON ME ;D

I was talking about one specific doctor Alex who told Brenda how low carbing would KILL her.
Logged

Beloved

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #86 on: September 05, 2008, 04:47:46 PM »

I have been trying to avoid this topic somewhat. Thanks Brenda for the point for humanizing docotors.  I get so tired of these types of discussions some times.

I was just talking to someone in alternative medicine about the field of medicine.

Guess what folks there is no simple solution.

Everything people have said has some element of truth but what is lacking is complete understanding.

The physical working of the world are very complex, many people make a statement and then tend to have that statement blanket the whole.

Rather that point out any made here, I want to discuss one I heard on the news this week.
                  Does eating/drinking grapefruit cause breast cancer

The answer is yes and no. But when you read this particular persons response there are many unspoken assumptions in the persons answer. What he did not discuss is:

Almost everything you take into your body has to be metabolized. Your digestive tract even though hidden, is an external organ like your skin. It has an opening the mouth and an exit the anus. Jesus spoke of this you remember. It is an interface. The gut is where things taken are internalized.

Grapefruit has a unique quality in that it can induce (change the way your liver works) enzymes (chemicals that cause chemical reactions) . Most of the time grapefruit slows one particular P450 enzyme (they do not have names but numbers CYP** UGT*** too complex to teach here) in the liver. This particular P450 is used to metabolize various substances...hormone digoxin and many others things . It depends on how much and how often you drink it for one.

Now lets say you are taking BCP or Hormone replacement or are producing a little too much estrogen...then eating grapefruit regularly will cause these compound to accumulate. One drink of alcohol can raise hormone replacement 500% Grapefruit does this to a little less extent than alcohol. The levels of hormone raises with each dose,

Now if you have liver cells that has mutated this P450 gene that too will make you susceptible to estrogen you could get cancer of the breast or uterus. There are many other genes in the body that do other things with estrogen that can cause this cancer effect also.

Even if you do not eat grapefruit you could have a mutation and produce too little P450 and get the same effect and never  ever drink grapefruit. Then there is epigenic which actually has to do with the 'gene cards you were dealt with at birth' and this is how the environment impacts you as an individual.

It is impossible for any man to monitor all the things in any persons body. We have some computers to help but even these are not enough. We can now examine people genes for their metabolic capabilities (poor responder or excess burners) That is why people respond differently to the same drug. These gene tests are not cheap and may not be covered by insurance.

The problem today is time and money, no doctor has the time to thouroughly search your condition even though that doctor has studied and knows how the body and these drugs works.

On the other side the individual patient does not have this same training and cannot do it for themselves, alternative medicine does not provide as deep as training regarding drugs or environmental interaction and orthodox medicine cannot even keep up with even its own research data and new findings even in this day of computers.

Someone mentioned that poor diet is bad, science has shown over and over that animals and people live longer if they are fed restricted diets  less food daily. In one way today's diets are over abundant things like calories etc in other ways it lacks certain nutritions depending on the person's choice of food.

Certain foods and certain medications and conditions can also deplete some nutritive substances, example metformin can deplete Vitamin B12. If you lack B12 then certain chemical reaction do not work as well. it is like a big web everyhting is connected to something else.

Today medical model and reimbursement by insurance make it impossible to spend the time to check every aspect out. Most medical offices spend huge amounts on personnel just to process the paperwork.

I subscribe to a computer program where I can enter foods and herbs and drugs and see the cross reactions, even your pharmacist can't do this, they just analyze the interaction of drugs you are taking. Guess what  Walgreen does not know the drugs you are getting from Walmart or the over the counter stuff or supplements you take, let alone the foods you eat.  Are you gaining a perspective on a little of the complexity yet?

The stuff (food OTC , drugs environmental chemical etc etc etc) going into the body, and the persons genes and the disease they have all play a role in health.

No man can fathom this. Satan and the world continue to mess with God's creation. 

The Scriptures talk about vegetarian diets in the past but the world is now more corrupt, the soils are depleted of nutrients and there are too many confounding things. The species of plants we grow for food have changed and we eat different . Who in the world had citrus year round?  Chemical and things are applied to plants , even organically grown foods may have problems with its nutrient content.

I believe that a high vegetarian diet is a good choice, but beans and rice though a vegan diet do not always cut it either. Its protein source are not effective as meat/chick' eggs for B12 and iron.  Our bodies are made to digest meat. Jesus ate meat and fish and he talked about giving eggs to his children. This is physical and it has spiritual meaning also.

I have taken courses and I have read and bought  books and have research all the aspects alternative medicine and anti aging medicine, toxicology etc and found even these lacking...

Even alternative medicine are after money just like orthodox medicine and the church....their stuff is dirt cheap to produce, no FDA etc...then why the high prices for most of it? 

My advice is to approach all with discernment, ask questions,  look things up, we have the internet. If you take antibiotics be sure to take a probiotic...replenish the good germs in your gut ....you need them in your gut, they actually metabolize some of things and produce needed things...

Caution eat a small portion of anything that may have antibiotics in it...like meat and dairy.  All you need is a size of a deck of cards, one oz of cheese a little dairy etc...not the 18 oz T-Bone that the world wants t serve you. Vary you diet, always choose local and in season if you can, grow some stuff yourselves.  eat all kinds of food, Did you know that sauerkraut was a good source of Vitamin C in the past when people did not have citrus and other things we have today. .

I hope that you can now see that the correct answer to the question I posed about grapefruit and breast cancer is .......it DEPENDS......on a whole lot of things.

Oh that one doctor who said that it would kill you...is making a blanket statement....

You have no idea how frustrated I can get because medicine (alternative and orthodox) is really in many ways like the Babylonian church.  They are corrupt and yes they too are blind and deaf.  As a physician I have to keep this idol of the heart (medicine) in check too. 

No arguments in me......God is in control and I will REST in that.

beloved
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #87 on: September 05, 2008, 05:40:33 PM »


Hi Beloved,

Thank you for your input on this, that was some really good advices.  It's good to hear from someone that has put all those years into studying these things.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
Logged

Beloved

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #88 on: September 05, 2008, 05:41:17 PM »

here is a little copy form when I did the drug interactio  

Note #3 Grapefruit Juice
CYP3A is present in the gut as well as the liver. Grapefruit juice inhibits gut CYP3A if given as 1 double-strength eight ounce glass and will inhibit liver CYP3A if given as three double-strength glasses. If given as one double strength glass, like any CYP inhibitor, it will particularly affect drugs that are preferentially metabolized in the gut. When grapefruit juice interacts with a drug, the inhibition occurs immediately if the grapefruit juice dose is high enough. Although effects can last up to 3 days after grapefruit juice intake, effects are especially predictable when grapefruit juice is consumed along with the oral dose of drug. CYP3A inhibition not only depends on the type of grapefruit juice (the inhibitor, with white grapefruit juice being a better inhibitor than pink and both, mechanism-based inhibitors) but also how much CYP3A is present. As little as 6-8 ounces of grapefruit juice taken WITH a high first pass substrate of CYP3A can substantially alter pharmacokinetics. GFJ also inhibits P-gps other transporters and esterased, and this adds to the effect.

Please note that the program assumes the co-drug is metabolized via the gut. As a result, the program may predict a drug interaction that may not occur if a drug is a liver substrate. If a drug is known to be metabolized in the gut, it is listed as an intestinal 3A substrate. As research becomes available, data will be added to the program.

This is just to show you how this one food wroks, the Gen Rx program says there is 75 to 150 % increase but it really depends on the amount and duration of taking grapefruit in.

So if your genes are normal then you can see, taking it in  moderation and not taking it daily would be better. If your genes are abnormal this program can adjust for that too. but you have to do the test.


beloved
Logged

OBrenda

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #89 on: September 05, 2008, 06:16:10 PM »

YW Beloved,

One of the parts of the epigeome program I couldn't find for people to watch, was a study they did over several generations of people.  What they found was that those people who had great grandparents that lived through famine, where more healthy than, people who had grandparents who ate plenty of nutritious food.

Doesn't make any sense, but it goes along with what Beloved said about eating less...
Someone mentioned that poor diet is bad, science has shown over and over that animals and people live longer if they are fed restricted diets  less food daily.

It's confussing, I guess because it's complicated by so many unseen things.  I think for my part I will stick with the low carb diet that Samson & Carol have encouraged me with.  It is what makes me feel best, and eat less.  I would like to check my PH balance for peace of mind.

Learned lots of things here with people putting a lot of time and heart into it.

Alex....I'm sure all will pray for those grades as God directs your path...

 ;D ;D ;D
Brenda
Logged

KristaD

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #90 on: September 05, 2008, 06:52:07 PM »



One of the parts of the epigeome program I couldn't find for people to watch, was a study they did over several generations of people.  What they found was that those people who had great grandparents that lived through famine, where more healthy than, people who had grandparents who ate plenty of nutritious food.

Doesn't make any sense, but it goes along with what Beloved said about eating less...



It makes perfect sense because the people that survived a famine would be the healthiest people as the sickly people would die without proper nutrition. So the offspring of the famine survivors would be more healthy because the received the healthy genes from their ancestors. The people that ate nutritious foods would be a toss up because more people (healthy AND sickly) would survive and produce offspring that would inherit healthy AND sickly genes. The more unhealthy people survive the more their ailments will be seen in future generations.
Logged

Beloved

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #91 on: September 05, 2008, 07:29:50 PM »

Krista though your explanation could explain some survival advantages, not all animals feed alike, pecking order also comes into play the alpha female and male always get first dibs, the more agressive get theirs  and then there is the begging size at the time of famine the runt of the litter often loses.

In the longevity studies with animals ALL were all gentically equal, the only thing that differed was the amount of food in the diet. These studies have been repeated in different species also.

They think the teleomere  the ends of the chromosomes are somehow protected. The shorter the telomere the shorter the life.  :D No they have not found anything yet that does this but they are looking for one.

Also hormone levels/ reporduction and also stress can adversely effect longevity. These make sence, there is a lot of energy needed to sustain both of these things

beloved
Logged

KristaD

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #92 on: September 05, 2008, 08:09:07 PM »

I was not arguing what you stated Beloved. I was just pointing out that survival of the fitest has a lot to do with what Brenda had said about famine survivors. I do not believe their descendants were healthier because they ate less, I beileve they were healthier because the unhealthy people died rathere than passing on their genes. The people Brenda spoke of were not genetically equal nor were they animals in a controlled study so it's very hard to compare the two. Those studies may indeed be true but I don't think that is what caused the outcome from the study Brenda sited as the people going through famine were most likely not receiving much nourishment from what they ate and nourishment is the most important thing to maintaining health not just eating less.
Logged

Beloved

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #93 on: September 05, 2008, 08:48:52 PM »

I do not see where what you say is argumentative, rather we are all just looking at the problem with a different view. We are like the four blind men and the elephant, explaining our view.

It is known that survivors of concentration and POW camps, famine etc , tend to live longer, what is hard to compare is the groups beginning weight and medical conditions, someone with heart disease who now find themselves with has no medications will not survive the ordeal.

It is also why you do not want to be in the lower weight limit, i.e very low body fat level . When put through a famine the organs that will support the body will be muscle heart kidney. Over time there function will be diminished. Those with some body fat will work on their fat for awhile before going to these organs. Many of the people did develop nutritional deficiencies, scurvy etc.

On the other hand If the individual were obese and put through this, then the physical stress of hard labor would effect them adversely. The good side is that type 2 diabetes and High Blood pressure would be improved. They could come out in better shape then they went in. I do not think there were many like this then but today there would be many in this category.

It is very hard to compare and draw too many conclusions from famine  survivors. We do know that being normal weight does allow for longer life, so these ordeals could have helped them from gaining excess weight.  At any point , all of this shows us that we all need to strive for balance and high quality food.

Like Kat and her post on Gardening...the only way you can be sure of your food is to grow it yourself.  This way you know the soil and conditions of growth. Another reason to compost it is "a Good thing". Perhaps a reason God told his people to let the land rest for a year...let the growth that season become compost for the next crop.

For some people a low carb diet just pushes the chemistry in one direction. The body doesn't get excessive calories and they are more protein and fat then they body has to manufacture glucose and feed the body, if the calories and carbs are high, then the body is very efficient at storing this in the form of fat, it is most energy efficient chemistry of the body. That is what happens in times of plenty. the bears and hibernators depend on it.

mmmm  I need to hibernate for a year that way I do not have to avoid foods like "Imagine Whirld Piece" by Ben and Jerry, pasta bread etc.   ;D

beloved
Logged

iris

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #94 on: September 05, 2008, 09:18:31 PM »

Hi Beloved,

That was so interesting.

In fact, this whole thread had been very interesting.

I think what all this shows is that its all up to God.


Iris
Logged

KristaD

  • Guest
Re: Gods laws of health and nutrition - where in Scipture?
« Reply #95 on: September 05, 2008, 09:27:45 PM »

All very true Beloved :).
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.043 seconds with 20 queries.