Simon Magus and Simon Peter?

[Matt]

I have been trying to find out for myself (historically) how the Christ's Ministry turned into the Roman Catholic Church.  Anyone have a good source or reference for me?
I was reading a website that stated the Simon in Acts Chapter 8, verse 9-25 is really a man called
Simon Magus.  He is credited as one of the starters of the Catholic Church.   
Has anyone ever heard of this? 


Matt

[AK4]

Yes i cant remember where i read about it, but i got of the internet.  You can find hundreds of papers on the subject.  Be careful though because i remember reading one that linked him (Magus) to universalism in a bad way.  The universalism of magus is the teachings of all religions being/becoming one and the paganism of Babylon merge in Christainity, i.e christmas and easter. I dont think it was just the catholic church that adopted his teachings. Alot of other religions added in there two cents also. His (magus)teachings is not the universalism of God saving all.  I almost got turned away from Rays teachings  when i first seen he was for universalism.  But obviously Rays teachings is God saving all not what magus taught.

Anthony

[Brian]

Normally I would just put in some links for you but unfortunately non-BT links are not allowed on the General Discussions board 

This is a very old book but it does a good job. You will have to go online to find a copy.
The Two Babylons
or The Papal Worship
Proved to be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife
By the Late Rev. Alexander Hislop
First published as a pamphlet in 1853— expanded in 1858 ISBN 157258212X

This is a newer book which I also enjoyed and found very informative. This you can purchase in almost any book store.
Pagan Christianity: Exploring the Roots of Our Church Practices by George Barna and Frank Viola ISBN 141431485X

Personally, I would start with the free book and see if it answers all of the questions and maybe sneak off to Barnes and Nobles for a peak at the other one. 

Have a happy and be sage
B

[winner08]

WOW Matt!!, I just was speaking of Simon Magus two days ago with a friend of mine. I read about Simon Magus on the net. Simon Magus was a magician and a follower of one of the disciples. I think, but not sure it was Simon Peter.Anyhow, Magus was very envious of the disciple and wanted to be like him. He couldn't perform miracles and so he did what he had to do in order to get a following, he did his magic tricks and trick the people into believing he was doing miracles like the other disciples. Well people started to follow him and started to believe in him. that started to believe he was sent from God. That's how a new religion started. The rest is history as they say.

                                                   Thanks                                 Darren                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

[Heidi]

He couldn't perform miracles and so he did what he had to do in order to get a following, he did his magic tricks and trick the people into believing he was doing miracles like the other disciples.                           

This is very interesting stuff Darren, the devil is not very original is he?  Always has to copy God.  Anyways, might do a google to read a bit about it.

Heidi

[Roy Monis]

WOW Matt!!, I just was speaking of Simon Magus two days ago with a friend of mine. I read about Simon Magus on the net. Simon Magus was a magician and a follower of one of the disciples. I think, but not sure it was Simon Peter.Anyhow, Magus was very envious of the disciple and wanted to be like him. He couldn't perform miracles and so he did what he had to do in order to get a following, he did his magic tricks and trick the people into believing he was doing miracles like the other disciples. Well people started to follow him and started to believe in him. that started to believe he was sent from God. That's how a new religion started. The rest is history as they say.

                                                   Thanks                                 Darren                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

Hi! Darren

Here is the Scripture you're looking for; "Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Now when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay my hands, he may receive the Holy Spirit. But Peter said unto him, Thy silver perish with thee, because thou hast thought to obtain the gift of God with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right before God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray the Lord, if perhaps the thought of thy heart shall be forgiven thee. For I see that thou art in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity. And Simon answered and said, Pray ye for me to the Lord, that none of the things which ye have spoken come upon me."(Acts 8:17-24).

Simon the magician also believed and was baptized; "And Simon also himself believed: and being baptized, he continued with Philip; and beholding signs and great miracles wrought, he was amazed."
(Acts 8:13).  But nowhere do I see that he started a new religion, I think that is pure human conjecture.

God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     

[Matt]

Thanks for the comments folks
I have always been interested in that fuzzy period between the disciples ministry and the beginning of Catholicism.  For me, knowing about this makes it easy to point out to others how much the rest of Christianity is like the Catholic church. 
This appears to be the period when much of God's truth was lost. 
Now, at least I understand that He made it this way.  It wasn't something that we did to thwart His plan.

Matt

[AK4]

Hi all,

I believe I read something that Ray wrote about Simon Magus.  I believe it was in an email to someone, but I remember him saying something like it wasn't Magus who was crucified upside down in Rome that is was Peter.  This was contrary to alot of stuff i read on Magus.  It was a small matter so its not a big deal if Ray was right or not on that.  Also i vaguely remember someone was saying that this....

But Peter said unto him, Thy silver perish with thee, because thou hast thought to obtain the gift of God with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right before God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray the Lord, if perhaps the thought of thy heart shall be forgiven thee. For I see that thou art in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity

was somehow a prophecy concerning the church or Catholicism.  I dont know i vaguely remember.

Anyways,

Anthony

[winner08]

Yes Roy, I don't remember where I read that information at. It could as well just been more man made teachings. It wasn't in the Bible. It was on the net.

                                      Darren

[Kat]

Hi Matt,

I thought this was interesting that I found in Wikipedia about Simon Magus.

The ancient oratory on which the current church is built was located by Pope Paul I on the place in which Simon Magus died. According to this legend, Simon Magus wanted to prove his powers as stronger than those of the apostles, and started levitating in front of Saints Peter and Paul. The two apostles fell on their knees preaching, and Simon fell, dying. The basalt stones where the apostles were kept the imprints of their knees, and are embedded in the wall of the south transept.

The church of Santa Francesca Romana claims to have been built on the spot in question (thus claiming that Simon Magus could indeed fly).
The church was built in the second half of the tenth century; it was named Santa Maria Nova ("new St. Mary"), to distinguish it from the other Roman Forum church devoted to St. Mary, Santa Maria Antiqua ("ancient St. Mary").
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Francesca_Romana


mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Roy Monis]

Hi Matt,

I thought this was interesting that I found in Wikipedia about Simon Magus.

The ancient oratory on which the current church is built was located by Pope Paul I on the place in which Simon Magus died. According to this legend, Simon Magus wanted to prove his powers as stronger than those of the apostles, and started levitating in front of Saints Peter and Paul. The two apostles fell on their knees preaching, and Simon fell, dying. The basalt stones where the apostles were kept the imprints of their knees, and are embedded in the wall of the south transept.

The church of Santa Francesca Romana claims to have been built on the spot in question (thus claiming that Simon Magus could indeed fly).
The church was built in the second half of the tenth century; it was named Santa Maria Nova ("new St. Mary"), to distinguish it from the other Roman Forum church devoted to St. Mary, Santa Maria Antiqua ("ancient St. Mary").
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Francesca_Romana


mercy, peace and love
Kat

Hi! Kath

That was very interesting, because when I was young - not too long ago - and in the Catholic faith I was always under the impression that it was a St.Francis who messed about with birds and could fly round the chapel. But being a Catholic saint I presume he'd be well protected and wouldn't be allowed to fall down dead.

Strange world the Catholics lived in and still do.

Thanks for the input, I continue to learn.

God bless you sister in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     

[Kent]

Matthew

You may have gotten it off of a 7th Day Adventist site. They also believe the pope is THE antichrist.

I read it in my "searchings" looking for truth. They believe this, as a whole. They have a "thing" for catholics.

I dont know if what they say is true or not about magus.

[Roy Monis]

I have been trying to find out for myself (historically) how the Christ's Ministry turned into the Roman Catholic Church.  Anyone have a good source or reference for me?
I was reading a website that stated the Simon in Acts Chapter 8, verse 9-25 is really a man called
Simon Magus.  He is credited as one of the starters of the Catholic Church.   
Has anyone ever heard of this? 


Matt

Hi! Matt.

I think it had its beginning with the Emperor Constantine and his the fellow responsible for introducing the word everlasting or some such thing. It's in the back of my mind but I just can't figure out where I've seen it. Possibly in one of Ray's papers but I'm not sure. Someone here will probably be able to help out.

God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     

[Kat]

Hi Matt,

I have been trying to find out for myself (historically) how the Christ's Ministry turned into the Roman Catholic Church.

I found your original question intriguing and have been looking through some sites concerning the origin on the Catholic Church. 

The word Catholic coming from the Greek word katholikos, which means "according to the whole" "general" or "universal."  So they believe the, Church is the faithful body of believers on earth in communion with the apostolic authority established by Jesus Christ in union with the successor of Peter the chief of the apostles. (taken from The Catholic Church: The Church of the Early Fathers By Jim Anderson')

What is becoming clear to me is that the false church was already being established even while the Apostles were still alive.

Acts 20:29  For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
v. 30  Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.

Paul was aware of these false teachers that did not have the Holy Spirit and they were teaching erroneous things.  These false teachers knew about the miracles that Christ preformed and even believing in His resurrection, just like today's church.  But being the 'called' not having the Holy Spirit, they can not understand spiritual things.  So I believe they began right after Christ's resurrection to build the false/Catholic church. 

This is an indication of how the false church was raised up as the true church, from 'The Early Church Fathers by Sebastian R. Fama'
The earliest of the fathers are known as the Apostolic Fathers. Their writings come to us from the first two centuries of Church History. They were the immediate successors of the Apostles. Three of them were disciples of one or more of the Apostles. Clement of Rome was a disciple of the apostles Peter and Paul. Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp of Smyrna were disciples of the Apostle John. Naturally we would expect that those who were taught directly by the Apostles would themselves believe and teach correctly.

The first reference to the 'Catholic Church' occurs in a letter written by St. Ignatius of Antioch. In his Letter to the Smyrnaeans written in 107 AD, "Wherever the bishop is, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

This is a statement from Clement, "because by it the figure of grace is found in the water, recognizing those who are baptized in the name of the Blessed Trinity." 

I found that all of these early 'fathers' that I checked into a bit had these unscriptural statements and expounded the virtues of the Catholic church.  What I believe is that the Catholic church was right there being set up in the beginning along with the true church. 

I don't think that the true believers ever met in a church building, but instead met in peoples homes.  These true believers were always small in number and I believe it was probably secretive.

The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. brought about the dispersion of Jews and Christians from that city, so this is the catalyst that caused early Christianity to grow apart from Judaism and established itself as a predominantly gentile religion. The church was persecuted in the first centuries because they refused to offer sacrifices to the Roman gods or to defer to Roman rulers as gods.  The Edict of Milan legalized Christianity in 313 and by 380, Christianity was declared the official religion of the Empire by Constantine I.  The chruch grew rapidly from the start and now the Catholic Church is the world's oldest and largest institution.

Some of this info came from 'History of the Roman Catholic Church' in Wikipedia, but the internet has numerous sites concerning the early church history.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Matt]

Thanks everyone   For many years I was Catholic, and to this day, I have no idea what it is I really believed
Kat, this is exactly what I was looking for.  The only sources I am able to find originate from the Catholic Church (most unreliable).
For some reason, I just need to know the origin of the false church, I can't explain it.

Matt

[winner08]

I am a firm believer that the Catholic church is the great false church. The whore of Babylon who fillsthe whole earth with her abominations, fornication's and deceives the whole world.I mean come on, what other religion teaches their people that one needs to go to confession and tell the priest all of your sins and then after saying 3 hail Marys and 5 Our Fathers our sins are forgiven. Then one can go about and sin all over again for the week and repeater the whole thing over. How about praying to the saints for healing and protection and awhole bunch of other stuff. Maby praying to statues of Jesus, Mary, and others. Lets celebrate midnight mass on Christmas's or mass at sunrise on Easter sunday. Let's not forget we are not allowed to eat meat of Fridays. If this isn't enough how about this. Immortal soul, when we die our soul goes to heaven or hell but hold on,our god is so feeble minded he has a third place to send us while we wait for him to make up his mind, purgatory a wait station. There's so much more but all of y'all get the pitcure.

                                                       Thanks,

                                                Darren

[AK4]

Immortal soul, when we die our soul goes to heaven or hell but hold on,our god is so feeble minded he has a third place to send us while we wait for him to make up his mind, purgatory a wait station.

LOL a wait station. You have me in tears over here.  I agree with you on the catholic church, but heres something interesting i was watching on the discovery channel something about Islam.  The Islam faith is almost a mirror the the RCC.

Islam has the shiites and sunnis--one believes in a direct descent from allah the other doesnt

"traditional christainity" has the RCC and the protestants---one belive the direct descent from the apostles the other doesnt.

And that is just tipping the iceberg on similarities.  When i was watching this islam documentary i was noticing all the similarities they were having with "traditional christainity".

Both islam and "traditional christainity" are daughters of that great whore Judaism.

No one knew of the True God until He revealed himself to the Isrealites and then they whored themselves out to all other religions.

Islam and traditional christainity both go by the OT.

[winner08]

yes, AK4, Your absolute right. I actually was just reading this today. Islam and Christiandom are pretty close as to there beliefs. It's like in the movies when the names have been change to protect the true idenity of the people. The stories the same but the names are changed. Now I am not saying that the religions are exactly the same. I said close.

                                   Darren