> General Discussions
What is required of a disciple?
chrissiela:
--- Quote from: SteveB ---
--- Quote ---You really think this way, Steve? So, Mike or Ray could be wrong in something but you'll 'go along with it', saying that you believe it too, just so that you can be of 'one mind'? Is this really what being of 'one mind' means? Sounds and feels more like a cult-like experience to me, and I'm sure that neither Mike or Ray would have anyone just 'go along' with what they teach? Maybe i've misunderstood what you're saying.
--- End quote ---
YOu did misunderstand:)
I wasnt saying go along if they are wrong, i was saying they are capable of being wrong. Being of 'one mind' means speaking with one voice, with one Lord and one God.
--- Quote ---"There is much that we must all yet learn. I am an expert and authority on nothing. I make no claims to fame or accomplishment.There is much that we must all yet learn. I am an expert and authority on nothing. I make no claims to fame or accomplishment."
"The details are yet to be filled in. I have yet many things to write about as well as many new things to learn and a few old things yet to unlearn."
--- End quote ---
What Ray was saying was that he HIMSELF wasnt an authority or expert. NOT that he couldnt teach WITH authority. How can someone without authority teach? He knows its Christ IN him that does the works and thats what he MENT by that statement.
--- Quote ---Goodness if Ray himself is working out the details etc, why is it not okay for us as well?
--- End quote ---
'working OUT details' is fine. Its what happens when there worked out. I never said i knew it all or that it wasnt ok to ask questions. But once you've asked and your ANSWER is contrary to the Word of God there is a problem.
--- Quote ---A littlle grace and patience with the young ones, were not talking about GRIEVOUS (SEVERE) WOLVES those who SPARE NO ONE Just young ones growing in the sincere milk of the word.
--- End quote ---
Amen :D
--- Quote ---I believe "being of one mind" would have more to do with having a sincere desire for the truth as opposed to looking at every miniscule nook and cranny of doctrine exactly the same way. I believe it is possible for two people to "be of one mind" while still seeing things differently - as long as both people are sincerely looking for truth with a willingness to forsake error.
--- End quote ---
I'm sorry i just cant agree based on the scriptures...
Amo 3:3 Can two walk together, except, they be agreed?
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
1Co 12:13 For, even to one Spirit, we all, into one body, have been immersed,-whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free,-and, all, of one Spirit, have been caused to drink.
Peace...Steve
--- End quote ---
It sounds to me like you are talking in circles.
You seem to say in one breath that you have to agree 100% or you are NOT of "one mind" but then turn around and say that you "are capable of being wrong".
You also said that Ray can teach with AUTHORITY without claiming to BE an authority or expert. I would agree, in that I can profess those things that I believe are true and quote the scriptures that I believe support those truths and be CONFIDENT and AUTHORITATIVE about what I say.... and still realize and accept that there is a POSSIBILTY that I could be under "strong dellusion" (wrong) about something. But that doesn't seem to be the same things that you are saying?
What you seem to be saying is that Ray has the Holy Spirit and ANYONE AND EVERYONE who does not "agree 100%" with Ray does not.... inferring , of course, that that means that YOU also have the Holy Spirit and anyone who does not agree 100% WITH YOU does not have the Holy Spirit (using the fact that YOU "agree 100%" with Ray as "proof" that YOU have the Holy Spirit).
--- Quote ---But once you've asked and your ANSWER is contrary to the Word of God there is a problem.
--- End quote ---
What if YOU'RE the one who's wrong and YOU'RE the one who is 'rejecting' the truth? What if the answer YOU are giving is "contrary" to the word of God? You just don't know it?
You say that we have to agree 100% to be of "one mind"... yet you say that asking questions and "working out the details" are fine..... so what does that mean exactly? That so long as we are all WRONG about the SAME things at the SAME time it's OK?? Because we are of "one mind", dispite the fact that we are all "in error"??
I'm sorry but this whole idea of having to "agree 100%" or we aren't a part of the body of Christ or of "one mind" is just non-sense. :shock:
Dennis has mentioned a few times before that it took him 2 years to accept that he did not have "free-will". He never once mentioned Ray disfellowshipping him over it.
Something isn't true because Ray said so or because Mike said so... but because GOD says so. I only have ONE Holy Spririt and I can assure that His name is not "Ray" or "Mike" (no offense to either one of them, but I am PRETTY SURE that neither one of them would want OR EXPECT anyone to go against what they feel the Holy Spirit is revealing to them personally to follow after Ray and/or Mike and if I am WRONG about that, then I am in the WRONG place anyway).
As inspired as I believe Ray and Mike are and as much as they have helped me and others, I am not about to lean on any man more than God. My faith and trust are in Christ and I need NO MAN to teach me anything (at the expense of not relying on the ONE who will guide me into ALL TRUTH... and tell me NO LIE).
So let every man be a liar... and me as well.... but the day that I put my trust in anyone other than the Lord and His Holy Spirit is the day that I have crossed over into the darkness.
And the day that I am expected to put all of my faith and trust in the teaching of Ray or Mike to fellowship here is the day that I leave this forum and NEVER return. So if that is on the horizon I sure would like to know..... but I doubt very much that you are speaking for Ray or Mike anymore that I think that YOU can tell me what "Ray meant" by his comment.
Blessings,
Chrissie
Daniel:
Steve you wrote,
--- Quote ---What Ray was saying was that he HIMSELF wasnt an authority or expert. NOT that he couldnt teach WITH authority. How can someone without authority teach? He knows its Christ IN him that does the works and thats what he MENT by that statement.
--- End quote ---
Daniel replies,
I'm not the one who had the original misunderstanding concerning what Ray wrote. I was inspired to post it and share it with you. I understood what Ray meant when he shared it. You are the one who quoted it and wrestled it out and try to break it down, dissect it and question it. Now that I had told you I shared something Ray said, you can now agree (as I thought you would) and tell me what he MEANT.
Did it mean something different to you when you didn't know Ray said it?
SteveB:
--- Quote ---
Daniel replies,
I'm not the one who had the original misunderstanding concerning what Ray wrote. I was inspired to post it and share it with you. I understood what Ray meant when he shared it. You are the one who quoted it and wrestled it out and try to break it down, dissect it and question it. Now that I had told you I shared something Ray said, you can now agree (as I thought you would) and tell me what he MEANT.
Did it mean something different to you when you didn't know Ray said it?
--- End quote ---
This will be my last post on this thread. It hasnt bore the fruit i'd hoped.
Knowing the context of a statement and what is meant by the writer seems to me essentail knowledge in understanding a statement. Knowing wether the writer is speaking in ambiguous, nondefined terms can be misleading.
In fact i do agree 100% with what He said knowing the beliefs of the writer.
chrissiela:
[bolds are mine]
--- Quote from: Daniel quoting Ray ---"There is much that we must all yet learn. I am an expert and authority on nothing. I make no claims to fame or accomplishment.There is much that we must all yet learn. I am an expert and authority on nothing. I make no claims to fame or accomplishment."
"The details are yet to be filled in. I have yet many things to write about as well as many new things to learn and a few old things yet to unlearn."
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: SteveB ---What Ray was saying was that he HIMSELF wasnt an authority or expert. NOT that he couldnt teach WITH authority. How can someone without authority teach? He knows its Christ IN him that does the works and thats what he MENT by that statement.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: SteveB ---In fact i do agree 100% with what He said knowing the beliefs of the writer.
--- End quote ---
Steven are you familiar with what Ray tells people all the time? He says “QUOTE ME; do not tell me what you THINK I said.�
If what YOU said Ray “meant� is true, then it sounds to me that what YOU are saying is that Ray “means� that CHRIST (who is the one doing the work and teaching with authority THROUGH Him, still has “new things to learn� and "a few old things yet to unlearn�)
I don’t think that's what Ray “meant� and it certainly is not what he SAID (quote above).
You are right, though… NO FRUIT here….. and I have nothing more to say about the requirement to “agree 100%� with Ray to be a part of the body of Christ.
Not to mention that I have a test to study for. #-o
Good night,
Chrissie
Daniel:
Joey writes
--- Quote ---I believe "being of one mind" would have more to do with having a sincere desire for the truth as opposed to looking at every miniscule nook and cranny of doctrine exactly the same way.
--- End quote ---
I agree with this Joey,
2Titus 2:2 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.[/u]
Which is
1Titus 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
This one just about KILLS the ego, took me a LONG while to accept the word for myself, but what a RELIEF when I finally did. Notice the "ALL" part, seems to me one can indeed have it ALL in regards to these and be nothing "without love".
1Cr 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and UNDERSTAND ALL MYSTERIES[/u], and ALL KNOWLEDGE[/u]; and though I have ALL FAITH[/u], so that I could remove mountains, and HAVE NOT CHARITY[/u], I AM NOTHING.[/u]
I used to get mad at that verse (being sincere here) because I took pride in my knowledge, it was my pride (it puffeth up as knowledge can do) it was measuring rod, my rule, my spear, my judgment, my stature. So much was "tied up" into knowledge.
1Cr 13:8 Charity never faileth[/u]: but whether there be prophecies, they shall FAIL; whether [there be] tongues, they shall CEASE; whether there be KNOWLEDGE, IT SHALL VANISH AWAY[/u]
Something WAY BETTER "coming" made me truly THINK on "that"
1Cr 13:9-10 For we know IN PART[/u], and we prophesy IN PART.But WHEN that which is perfect IS COME, THEN that which is IN PART shall be DONE AWAY.[/u]
Joey writes
--- Quote ---I believe it is possible for two people to "be of one mind" while still seeing things differently - as long as both people are sincerely looking for truth with a willingness to forsake error.
--- End quote ---
Daniel writes,
I agree, if we CAN have "ALL knowledge and ALL understanding" (keeping in mind these being in part) and have NOT love and be nothing :shock: how can we judge another on not agreeing with our own understanding? How can we say imperfect knowledge is something to judge another on when scripture shows ALL knowledge ALL faith and ALL understanding is NOTHING without love? We could spin our wheels and go nowhere having all that but not love.
Its possible, the scriptures speak of this very thing. I'd rather fellowship with a kind brothers and sisters who are seeking Him with their whole heart. You can sense in them a sincerity that would be plain as the day itself. In that would be plain to anyones conscience then a "know it all" with a bad attitude. I prefer salt on my eggs as well, but thats just my preference. I think we all have them don't we? :lol:
Daniel
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version