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Author Topic: feed back  (Read 2537 times)

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chuckt

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feed back
« on: August 22, 2008, 01:33:31 PM »

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

i would like feed back on this verse, and any links if ray has talked about it.

thanks much.

inlove
chuckt
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: feed back
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2008, 02:14:30 PM »


Hi Chuckt,

Here is an email on this.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5855.0.html ---

As for "There be some STANDING H-E-R-E which shall not taste of death, TILL [till mean 'until,' and then when the 'till' has occurred, THEY WILL TASTE OF DEATH] they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom" (Matt. 16:28).  And just when DID they see this?  Answer--next verse: 

Mat 17:1  And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart,

Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Where they really, actually, literally, in the flesh "talking with Jesus?"  No. Read verse 9:

Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

It was all a "VISION."  It happened in their minds, not unlike a dream--it was only a VISION, but in that vision, they really did see Jesus as He will appear "IN HIS KINGDOM).

Hope this helps your understanding. The Scriptures do not contradict their own truths.

God be with you,
Ray

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chuckt

  • Guest
Re: feed back
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2008, 02:21:09 PM »


Hi Chuckt,

Here is an email on this.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5855.0.html ---

As for "There be some STANDING H-E-R-E which shall not taste of death, TILL [till mean 'until,' and then when the 'till' has occurred, THEY WILL TASTE OF DEATH] they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom" (Matt. 16:28).  And just when DID they see this?  Answer--next verse: 

Mat 17:1  And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart,

Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Where they really, actually, literally, in the flesh "talking with Jesus?"  No. Read verse 9:

Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

It was all a "VISION."  It happened in their minds, not unlike a dream--it was only a VISION, but in that vision, they really did see Jesus as He will appear "IN HIS KINGDOM).

Hope this helps your understanding. The Scriptures do not contradict their own truths.

God be with you,
Ray



thanks Kat, you just confirmed what i already beleived on this topic, try convincing a  so called hyper preterist though  :(

gonna read the link now.

peace and blessings inChrist
chuckt
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carol v

  • Guest
Re: feed back
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2008, 03:37:08 PM »

I really like Ray's very logical explanation but I think there is another way to look at this verse as well.

Mat 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

We are to apply every word of scripture to ourselves and it's pretty easy to do with the following scripture:

Luk 17:21  Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

One of the biggest errors in Christendom is the idea that there is some heaven we will all go to after we die called "The Kingdom of God." It's somewhere north of "The Pit of Eternal Torment." But as we see, the kingdom of God is not far away at all.

So there are those "standing here" (reading right this minute) that will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom (filling their lives now in this vapor of a life in the flesh.)

I kind of see Ray's explanaton as a great one to give to those comparing spiritual with literal and the other explanation for those who compare spiritual with spiritual.
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: feed back
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2008, 04:54:35 PM »


Hi Carol,

Yes I think there is more to that Scripture than for those present at the transfiguration.  There is always more layers to be revealed  :)

Mat 16:28  Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

As the Scripture you brought shows, "the kingdom of God is within you." (Luk 17:21)

John 14:17  the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
v. 18  I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

So there were those there among the disciples that would be of the Elect and they did not die until Christ/Comforter/Kingdom came to them.

mercy, peace and love
Kat


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winner08

  • Guest
Re: feed back
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2008, 05:50:06 PM »

Ray has a great paper on death on the home page. I just read it. It helps explains alot on how not everyone will taste death. One moment you will in the hear and now and the next moment you will be in the hear in now but it will be ;at the resurrection. You will not have a thought that you died. You might remember that you were dying but at the moment you die you wont know that you died. Then bam! your alive at the resurrection. One moment here, one moment theres. Everybody should read Ray's paper on death. Like all his papers, they are great.

                                  Darren
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AK4

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Re: feed back
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2008, 06:07:30 PM »

Can you imagine what the suicider will think....

"What? what? Didnt i just...? But?... How? Is this a dream?  I know for sure i jumped?  Lol.

This brings up something that was being taught by Ron Weinland (the false prophet).  He said that when people who died they will arise in the resurrection where it was like a split second difference.  i.e. that scenario i just put.  And others will be resurrected already at the age of 33 in perfect bodies.  What a crock as Ray would put it.  Where's his scriptural backing on this.

But i have a question.  How will they that arise in the second resurrection be?  An infant again to grow up and learn His ways or at a certain age or where they left off/died in their first life?


Just curious
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KristaD

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Re: feed back
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2008, 07:27:32 PM »

I think since age is relative to our lives now earth it really has no bearing in the spiritual world, so in the resurrection there would be no age. JMO
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: feed back
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2008, 07:46:07 PM »

Ray said in one of the audios that he believes even the Elect coming up in the first resurrection will be as babies, speaking spiritually.  The rest of it 'doth not yet appear'.   :) 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Kat

  • Guest
Re: feed back
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2008, 09:35:06 PM »


Hi Anthony,

Quote
But i have a question.  How will they that arise in the second resurrection be?  An infant again to grow up and learn His ways or at a certain age or where they left off/died in their first life?

The 'many' raised in the resurrection of the dead/second death, will be raised in physical bodies.  Ray says babies will be raised still as babies.  But adults... well all it says is they will stand (Rev. 20:12).  Then they will be cast into the Lake of Fire, which is where they go through a physical life and the experiences to learn righteousness (Isa. 26:9).  There will be plenty of people to raise the babies, somehow.
Here is where Ray mentions the babies in the resurrection of the dead.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm -------------------

"And as it is appointed unto men [Gk: 'anthropose'--human, mankind] once to die, but after this the judgment"

This Scripture is all-encompassing, universal, and applies to every human who has ever lived. All humanity must die once, and after that death, they must be judged. There are no exceptions, not even for mentally challenged, teens, youngsters and even infants. (Do sound-minded Christians really believe that when babies die they go to heaven and therefore, there will be millions of eternal babies [in diapers?] living in heaven for all eternity AS BABIES?) God has a way to deal with babies and infants in the Day of Judgment that will be quite equitable -- they will grow up to be adults.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Here is what Ray said about being born at the first resurrection.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.15.html -----

God has got a master plan.  The more I think about itÖ When we are born, fully born into the family of God, it's like when a child is actually born.  We know what itís like when a child is begotten, because after a few weeks or a month, the mother realizes something is going on.  She say, 'I think Iím pregnant.í  Then there is a certain period it grows, for 9 months and the baby is born.  But when the baby is born, is it mature? 
So Iíve been looking at that the last few years.  I donít believe when we are born into the family of God we will be just like God.  I donít believe that.  I donít believe we are going to take that quantum leap in one flash, at the last trump.  Boom and we will be patting out Father on the back and saying, Ďgood to see ya Dad.í  I donít think itís going to be like that at all.  I think then (when we are born into the family of God) weíre on the outside of the womb, so to speak.  Weíll be on the outside of the spiritual womb and itís going to be a whole new world. 
I think about as much as a fetus sees in the motherís womb, thatís what we see right now.  When we are born, we are going to come out of this and we are going to see a whole lot more.  Then we are going to start to grown up.  But thatís just what I think.
-----------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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WhoAmI

  • Guest
Re: feed back
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2008, 02:23:43 AM »

I really like Ray's very logical explanation but I think there is another way to look at this verse as well.

Mat 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

We are to apply every word of scripture to ourselves and it's pretty easy to do with the following scripture:

Luk 17:21  Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

One of the biggest errors in Christendom is the idea that there is some heaven we will all go to after we die called "The Kingdom of God." It's somewhere north of "The Pit of Eternal Torment." But as we see, the kingdom of God is not far away at all.

So there are those "standing here" (reading right this minute) that will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom (filling their lives now in this vapor of a life in the flesh.)

I kind of see Ray's explanaton as a great one to give to those comparing spiritual with literal and the other explanation for those who compare spiritual with spiritual.


I get you on this. This sort of understanding has helped me a lot with the scriptures. But so many want to know the word only in physical way so to speak. I have said what Kat has said, it is like it is layered. For me it is the growth. It is amazing but then I am reminded of how little I know as well. Oh well I think I would rather be humbled than to know it all.  ;)

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