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Author Topic: Rev 12:7-9  (Read 2375 times)

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JD

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Rev 12:7-9
« on: August 23, 2008, 05:27:55 AM »

Hi everyone!

Can anyone tell me if Ray has written intensively about this portion of scripture heavily leaned upon as support for the ‘rebellious angel/Lucifer’ theory of Christendom.

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels going forth to war with the dragon; and the dragon warred and his angels;
And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast
down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him.” (Rev 12:7-9) 


I’ve read some good studies but haven’t come across Rays teaching on it as yet (probably because it falls under the ‘needs a more thorough explanation than I can give in an email’ category.

Thanks for your help and/or input.

J.D.
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OBrenda

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Re: Rev 12:7-9
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2008, 09:21:06 AM »

Hi J.D.
One thing I always noticed when reading this before I came to BT, was John was thorough enough to mention the names Satan, Serpent, Devil and the Dragon to identify him. But no mention of the Name Lucifer here!  Seems like the perfect place if that was his name?

I can't point you to a specific teaching by Ray on this verse, I'm sure one of the Mod's will help with that.

God Bless,
Brenda
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Kat

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Re: Rev 12:7-9
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2008, 10:32:33 AM »


Hi JD,

I did find one email on this subject.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3212.0.html -----

> can you explain the "war in
> heaven", since the bible tells us that we will be judging angels.
 
COMMENT:  This "war in heaven" has little to do with "judging angels."
When one believes that the statements in Revelation are literal, and that they
are in chronological order, that person's understanding will be about zero.  There
are many surprises in Revelation when we follow the instruction of understanding
that God gives us in the Scriptures. As long as we REFUSE to believe and obey
God's instruction, our spiritual understanding will be near zero.
 
Listen carefully:  This "war in heaven" is NOT LITERAL; it does not take place
in OUTER SPACE; it does not happen IN THE THRONE ROOM OF GOD; it does
not take place chronologically AFTER the wonder of a woman in Rev. 12:1, but BEFORE
the beast comes up out of the sea in 13:1; it does not interpret itself within its own verse; it is explained by OTHER Scripture; it is a SYMBOL; and it is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which is the "spirit of prophecy"(19:10) and therefore is the "WORDS OF SPIRIT" of Jesus (John 6:63) for which we also need a SECOND WITNESS, etc., etc., etc.
 
If Revelation is a literal account of the events to happen in chronological order, then read a book by Hal Lindsey or Paul Crouch and you will understand the Book of Revelation--surely I josh!
----------------------------------------------------------

hope this is helpful,
Kat

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JD

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Re: Rev 12:7-9
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2008, 07:55:20 PM »

Thanks for that, appreciate your input.

J.D.
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winner08

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Re: Rev 12:7-9
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2008, 10:15:12 PM »

I too believe that the war between good and evil the devil and God would happen but, here on earth not in heaven. I thought the war in heaven already happen. It is said that Satan took one third of the angles and rebelled against God where He threw Satan down from the heavens to the earth where Jesus said he saw them  thrown down to earth. I always believed that there would be a end time war here on earth.  Ten I am told this is not to be taken literal. That is spiritual. Which I believe. I have more faith in what Ray teaches than what I think I might know. I also believed in a place where God sent you to when you are bad. (Not born again).
 

                                                   Darren
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kweli

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Re: Rev 12:7-9
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2008, 10:50:06 AM »

As long as we agree that there cannot be a war between GOD and the devil. That is just not possible. The devil would have to get permission from GOD to wage a war. Which also confirms that Jehovah Elohim, who mentioned "my enemies" a few times, is Jesus. GOD is not even in the realm of enemies.
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WhoAmI

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Re: Rev 12:7-9
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2008, 03:47:51 AM »

You know the churches teach a heaven where people go if they have said a ten second sinners prayer. They tell us that this heaven is peaceful and no harm or discord ever happens here. But yet they tell us that a war can take place there. ???
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