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Author Topic: Matthew 10:28  (Read 5294 times)

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Phill B

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Matthew 10:28
« on: August 24, 2008, 04:24:50 AM »

Matthew 10:27-29 (New International Version)
27What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. 28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father

One one of the audios I recall Ray saying he did not understand Mat 10:28 for a long time, then God finally revealed to him what it meant.

I would be grateful if someone could direct me where Ray explains the meaning of this verse.
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Stevernator

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Re: Matthew 10:28
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2008, 05:15:47 AM »

I did a google advanced search for gehenna within the domain of bible-truths.com and this is what i found.

Here are some papers where Ray talks about it. You could type ctrl+f and then type gehenna.
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D2.htm
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm
http://bible-truths.com/hagee1.htm

"SOME REFERENCES TO JUDGMENT UPON THE ELECT:

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Heb. 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal [Gk: eonian] judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

Joh 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

COMMENT: Notice that these are the doctrines of Christ, and it is "us" that are being spoken to in this verse. This "eonian judgment" is for us, first, and then the world. This world knows little or nothing about what Heb. 6:1-3 may have to say about them, at this time. Well, actually, the Church knows virtually nothing of this also, as it is not taught in Christendom that individual Christians are being judged right now as we live, and that there is no judgment for us after we are resurrected.

Ecc 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

1Co 11:31-32 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

2Th 1:4-5 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer.

There are many Scriptures showing that there will be "Judgment" upon God's Elect and upon the wicked. We will now look at some Scriptures that show us this Judgment is symbolically represented to be by FIRE.

ALL FIRES ARE THE SAME ONE "CONSUMING FIRE" OF GOD

GEHENNA FIRE IS JUDGMENT:

In Matt. 5:21-26 Jesus lists four ways in which we can be judged: [1] the Judgment, [2] the Council, [3] Gehenna fire, and [4] Prison. But hereafter in verse 29 Jesus uses Gehenna, and again in verse 30, Gehenna. And pay close attention for what sins this fire is used: "...if your right EYE offend you... if your right HAND offend you..." it must be removed, or the penalty is Gehenna fire. In Matt. 10:28 Jesus mentions again the judgment of Gehenna. In Matt. 18:9 He again uses Gehenna fire. In Matt. 23:33 Jesus warns the Pharisees of Gehenna judgment:

"Ye serpents, you generation of vipers, how can you escape the damnation [Gk: 'a tribunal, justice, JUDGMENT'] of Gehenna?"

And so Gehenna fire is clearly seen as a way in which Jesus Judges sinners, and specifically, the sins of the eyes, hands, and feet. Gehenna fire IS JUDGMENT. What else is Gehenna?

GEHENNA FIRE IS THE FIRE NEVER QUENCHED:

In Matt. 9:43 & 45, the Judgment for offending with our eyes, hands, and feet is again mentioned, and here we learn that the fire of this judgment "...never shall be quenched." It is not eternal fire, but it is fire that shall not be "put out" until it "burns out" all that it is designed to purge. So Gehenna fire is also the notorious "unquenchable fire." And so Gehenna fire and unquenchable fire are the same fire of JUDGMENT.

GEHENNA FIRE IS THE FURNACE OF FIRE:

"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things [those] that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 13:41-42).

This is the same Judgment of Gehenna fire which is used to judge all those who offend with their eyes, hands, and feet. Here ALL who offend are put into a furnace of fire which is the same as the unquenchable fire, and the Gehenna fire.

GEHENNA FIRE IS EVERLASTING [EONIAN] FIRE:

Next notice that Judgment for offending with our eyes, hands, or feet, is once again called Gehenna fire in Matt. 18:9. But back in verse 8 this Judgment for the same sin is called "everlasting [Gk: 'aionios/eonian/age-lasting] fire."

So here we have Scriptural proof that Gehenna fire, and everlasting [eonian/age-abiding] fire are one and the same fire. And so "everlasting/eonian fire" is just another term for the judgment of Gehenna.

GEHENNA FIRE/EONIAN FIRE IS THE LAKE OF FIRE:

When Jesus returns to this earth in glory with His holy angels (Matt. 25:31), He will come with great power to JUDGE (Rev. 19:11), and those who oppose Him will be thrown into "a lake of fire" (Verse 20). Satan also is cast into this "lake of fire" (Rev. 20:10), and "death and hell/hades" is cast into this "lake of fire" (Verse 14).

Now then, what fire does Jesus say he will use for His judgment on the goats and on the Devil and his messengers? It is "everlasting/eonian/age-abiding fire" (Matt. 25:41). Once more we have clear Scriptural proof that all these descriptions of fiery Judgment are the very same fire, and that Fire is GOD:

"For our God is A CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).

Gehenna fire is the furnace of fire, the unquenchable fire, the everlasting [Gk; eonian/age-abiding] fire, and the lake of fire, as we just saw proven by Scripture.

And this fire by five names is God's Judgment:

upon His disciples (Matt. 5:22, 29, 30)

upon the Pharisees (Matt. 23:33)

upon the chaff (Matt. 3:12)

upon the spiritual goats (Matt. 25:32 & 41)

upon trees which bear no good fruit (Matt. 7:19)

upon the spiritual tares (Matt. 13:40)

upon all the WICKED (Matt. 13:49-50)

All these five "fires" are the same one fire, and this fire is the "Consuming Fire" of God that JUDGES BOTH US AND THE WORLD. And it is clearly stated that "The lake of fire IS the second death" (Rev. 20:14 & 21:8). The lake of fire is JUDGMENT, and the lake of fire is the second death. Therefore: the SECOND death IS GOD'S JUDGEMENTS UPON BOTH THE WICKED AND THE ELECT!

There is to be judgment upon the wicked and judgment upon God's Elect of The House of God. And both of these groups are judged by the spiritual fire of God Almighty, "For our God IS a consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29).

FIRE & JUDGMENT on God's Elect:

"That the trial of your faith [God's Elect], being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ... judgment must begin at the house of God" (I Pet. 1:7 & 4:17).

FIRE & JUDGMENT on the UNGODLY:

"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men" (II Pet. 3:7).

Revelation shows us that the "lake of fire" is where all humanity will be "judged" (Rev. 20:13), and this lake of fire is the SECOND death:

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the SECOND death" (Rev. 20:14)

and

 "the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the SECOND death" (Rev. 21:8).
"

From http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm

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winner08

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Re: Matthew 10:28
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2008, 10:29:16 PM »

Is this the  only verse where the word hell is used? I did look it up on esword and it said: Hebrew original Valley of Hinnom. Gehenna a valley in Jerusalem used for the place or state of everlasting punishment. This is not correct is it? I mean yes, valley of Hinnom.Gehenna a valley in Jerusalem. But a place or state of EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT? I thought There was no word as everlasting. Age or anion. I know Ray speaks of this quite often. Am I wrong?

                                                           Darren
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Matthew 10:28
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2008, 10:33:05 PM »

Is this the  only verse where the word hell is used? I did look it up on esword and it said: Hebrew original Valley of Hinnom. Gehenna a valley in Jerusalem used for the place or state of everlasting punishment. This is not correct is it? I mean yes, valley of Hinnom.Gehenna a valley in Jerusalem. But a place or state of EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT? I thought There was no word as everlasting. Age or anion. I know Ray speaks of this quite often. Am I wrong?

                                                           Darren

I thought it was a place where all the waste of the city was dumped and than burned to purify. You are correct in saying their was no word for everlasting or eternal in the greek or hebrew language when the scriptures were written.

God bless,

Alex
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winner08

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Re: Matthew 10:28
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2008, 10:42:46 PM »

Yes I also was under the impression that Hell was use as a metaphor for a place outside the city gates of Jerusalem where it was used as a dumping site for refuge and waste. Also the carcause of dead animals where they burned 24/7. The fire never died and the smoke filled the air. A never ending plume of black smoke. The stink must have been terrible. This is the same place where their worm never dies. I guess when Jesus spoke of this place the people knew what He was talking about. A place where none wanted to be .

                                Darren
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Kat

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Re: Matthew 10:28
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2008, 11:45:00 PM »


Hi Darren,

Here are a few sections from the article D4 Hell: Gehenna Fire Judgment.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm ---------------------


                      THE FUNCTION OF SPIRITUAL JUDGMENT,
                       COUNCIL, GEHENNA FIRE, AND PRISON

In Jesus' Sermon recorded in Matt. 5:21-26, Jesus was not teaching His disciples on the mount that they would be brought before the Judgment of the nation of Israel if they hated a brother; or that they would be brought before the High Council of the Jewish Sanhedrin if they called a brother Raca; or that they would be burned at the Jerusalem garbage dumped in the valley of Gehenna if they called a brother a fool; or that they would be thrown into a prison of the Roman Empire if they did not quickly rectify a grievance with a brother. It is nonsense to think such a thing. These are Jesus' Judgments for His disciples and followers through all ages.
v
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 Matt. 10:28 & Luke 12:5

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna].

"But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell [Gehenna]; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."

Luke's account is the same as Matthew's, however, it is a shorter version. From Matthew we learn that God is "able to destroy" our very soul in Gehenna. But that is not a wicked thing, but a good thing. It is a good thing to loose (apollumi-destroy) our carnal soul for God's sake, and this destruction of the soul for God takes place in Gehenne. See Matt. 10:39 losing (destroying, "mortifying the deeds of the body" Rom. 8:13) takes place in spiritual Gehenna, Verse 28.
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Jesus says that Gehenna fire is eonian, not eternal. And the ministers of Satan will go into this eonian fire. Now then if the fire is eonian for us, then it is likewise eonian for them. We only go through God's Gehenna/eonian fire for our eon, our life. A man's life is an eon, his eon. So eonian fire cannot be eternal, or we, God's chosen Elect, would go through Gehenna fire for all eternity. Now then, since it is only a temporary fire for us, the very SAME fire can be only temporary for the rest of humanity as well. Truly, the Scriptures do not contradict.
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Now then, what was the purpose of these maggots and fire in the valley of Gehenna? To destroy that which is putrid and worthless; to purge; to purify the city of its garbage. That was their physical purpose and Jesus has the same thing in mind when He uses these symbols, word pictures, and analogies to represent His spiritual sin-purging judgments.
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--But do all these things constitute being judged by "worms and fire?" Absolutely. Gehenna fire does not represent eternal torture in literal flames upon the wicked. It represents cleansing and purging of His called and chosen Elect, now, in this Church age.
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This spiritual Gehenna purging and purifying fire of Christ was already kindled when He called His disciples, and it has been with us ever since, and I can personally testify that it is with us today in every life that Jesus is purging from the rotten flesh of the carnal mind.
------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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winner08

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Re: Matthew 10:28
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2008, 12:29:25 AM »

Thanks Kat: I get it. I was thinking in Matt:10:28 the translator used the word Hell and describe it as everlasting. My point being we know this to not be correct due to the fact that Ray teachers these words Hell and everlasting are not of the Lord. We all know where Ray gets his info from. ;)

                                             Darren
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