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Author Topic: Need help  (Read 1885 times)

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Need help
« on: August 26, 2008, 11:26:31 AM »

Hi all

I have just posted an intro on the intros section, but in short my name is Matty.

We have a christian group here at work, which I'm sure in a few weeks time, i wont be welcome in since everything i say just doesn't gel in with everyone's doctrine. I wont blame them though because only until a couple of weeks ago, i was just like all of them even though i prided myself with fact that i knew more scripture that all of them put together.

Now before i get kicked, we have a hot topic about The kingdom of God/Heaven. Here's an out line of our topic:
What is the Kingdom of God/Heaven?
Difference between Heaven and Kingdom of Heaven?
Difference between Kingdom of God and Salvation?
Is there something called Kingdom of God/Heaven on earth?
Do we inherit Kingdom of God/Heaven by Faith or Deeds?

Needless to say, there are a lot of beliefs around this, the most common being that a place called heaven is our destination(Christians that is), that the "elect" will dwell forever in heaven with the angels, Jesus and God the Father. One very "spiritual" lady has decided that she is bringing proof (from her bible of course)to all of us that the Kingdom of God is a place that we are all going to, that God is in the 3rd heaven which is where God's Kingdom will be- a lot of gibberish i know- but hey some of us were all once there.
My simple request is that you who have been blessed with the knowledge of the truth for some time now help me answer these questions,chronically for those who God Will have listen.

All scripture references, guidance, any kind of help really- will be highly appreciated.

Many Thanks



  • Guest
Re: Need help
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2008, 12:27:54 PM »

Hiya Matty! Welcome to BT  ;)

Mat 4:17  From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, Repent! For the kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Mat 10:7  And as you go, proclaim, saying, The kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

From G1451; to make near, that is, (reflexively) approach: - approach, be at hand, come (draw) near, be (come, draw) nigh.

We don't go TO heaven, it comes TO US!

Mat 12:28  But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you.

Luk 17:21      Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

From G1722; inside (adverb or noun): - within.

The Kingdom is not in some other faraway place - it is HERE, with us, IN us!

Ref: Matt 6:33 -
How are we supposed to seek something that is a place somewhere in outer space??

(ALL BOLD ITALICS MINE - obviously  ;))



  • Guest
Re: Need help
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2008, 12:44:27 PM »

Hi Matty,

I think this is a key Scripture in understanding what the kingdom is.

Luke 17:20  Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation;
v.21  nor will they say, "See here!' or "See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."

This shows that the kingdom/heaven is not a physical place, but a spiritual realm of existence that we reach in our minds.  This is the LIFE Christ speaks of.  

John 17:3 Now it is eonian LIFE that they may KNOW Thee, the only true God, and Him Whom Thou dost commission, Jesus Christ."

Christ states that while on earth He was in heaven.

John 3:13  No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

Hope this is of some help.

mercy, peace and love


Dave in Tenn

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Re: Need help
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2008, 03:04:14 PM »

Hi Matty.

I'm curious as to whether these are questions you have or questions that are given to you as a kind of 'assignment' in your group.  It's OK either way...I'm just wondering.

Check out the Ray's Audio section and the transcripts.  His talk on The Gospel of the Kingdom is probably the most concise primer and introduction to the Gospel I've encountered on the site.  It might not directly answer all your questions from your post, but I think it will help.  Have your pen and paper ready.   ;D
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.


  • Guest
Re: Need help
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2008, 10:04:43 PM »

Hi Matty,

There is much material on Bible Truths that you can access for answers to this question (and many, many more) here is a teaser from;

Exposing the "Secret Rapture" Theory

I know of no Scripture that states that Christ will set up His Kingdom and rule it from heaven. So it doesnít say He returns to heaven; it doesnít say He returns to earth; it doesnít say He stays in the air either. We know from other Scriptures and prophesies that Christ does indeed return and rule on this earth. However, for the sake of the rapturists, can we know from this very Scripture alone whether Christ immediately returns with His saints to earth or does He return to heaven first for a number of years?

We can learn something remarkable from the way that God uses the word "meet" in this Scripture.

"Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air." (I Thes. 4:17).

In this verse as in three others, God uses the Greek word apatesis which is translated "to meet." It is distinguished from a half dozen other Greek words which are variously translated, "meet,í "meet with," "meeting," "meeting with," etc. The Greek word apatesis, is, however, used only three other times.

One authority tells us that this word apatesis was used in ancient times to describe the actions of an official welcoming delegation that had been sent "to meet" a visiting dignitary.

It is said that the word literally meant, "meeting and returning with." Not being an etymologist, historian, or scholar, I canít speak with any authority here, but I can use a concordance and I can read the Scriptures. Letís look at these three occasions and see if, indeed, this word carries the connotation of "meeting and returning with."

"Now in the middle of the night a clamor occurs: Lo! The bridegroom! Come out to meet [apatesis] Him!" (Matt. 25:6).

Comment: After they went out to meet the bridegroom, they didnít stay outside, but rather they came back inside with the Bridegroom. Remember, it is "midnight" and it is dark--thatís why they took oil for their torches. They went out to meet the Bridegroom, then returned with Him to the house, and locked the door.

When Christ began His entrance into Jerusalem (which was itself a type of His triumphant return to Jerusalem), many people went out with palm fronds to meet Him.

"On the morrow the vast throng, who are coming for the festival, hearing that Jesus is coming into Jerusalem, got fronds of palms and came out to meet [apatesis] Him" (John 12:13).

Needless to say, they did not return with Christ back to Bethany, but returned back into Jerusalem with Christ.

When the saints in Rome heard of Paulís soon arrival, they went out to meet him.

"And thence the brethren, hearing about us, come to meet [apatesis] us as far as Appii Forum and Three Taverrns, perceiving whom, Paul, thanking God, took courage. Now when we entered Rome" (Acts 28:15-16).

And again, it is seen that they returned back to Rome with Paul, they did not return with Paul back to Puteoli.

The fourth time this Greek word apatesis is translated "to meet" is in I Thes. 4:17: "... we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in the clouds, to meet [apatesis] the Lord in the air."

Now I am almost sure that I can hear faint protests in the distance from objecting rapturists. Notwithstanding, based on all the usage's of this word apatesis [to meet], and we read them all, when someone went out to meet someone else, where did they always go next? Thatís right, back where they came from. So if God is consistent with the use of this word, then when the saints of I Thes. 4 meet the Lord in the air, they will then return with Christ back to the EARTH!



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