> General Discussions
Rev 20:5
dewey:
Hi, Anthony, Craig, and Falgnon
First of all, right off the top as per Craig's suggestion that an apology is in order. Anthony, we ask you to please accept our most sincere apology. It was not our intention to hurt feelings or insult anyone in any way. The reason that we posted what we did was where we read "Arent the elect changed and therefore WE will have bodies where WE will be ruling with Christ, ministering to the people but wont be seen by them, helping to heal the nations?" The two of us have mistakenly taken your use of "we" and thought you were speaking of yourself as one of the elect. To us, "we" is an inclusive plural personal pronoun. And when I said "how sad", we were truly saddened that after all the teachings that L. Ray Smith has out there someone comes along thinking that they're one of the elect. So sorry.
Here's some of the stuff that we go into when we think of the resurrection:
In the New Testament, it says Jesus raised a number of people. Jesus raised Jairus' daughter shortly after death. Jesus also brought back a young man right in the midst of his own funeral. And check out Lazarus - dead for four days. Before I go any further, I want to point out that immortality and resurrection are two different words. All these people that I'm telling you about came back to life - not immortality (John 11:44 Lazarus lives). The word resurrection is found 40 times in this old bible that I have. Let's take for example (Acts 20:9-10). Paul gave life to Eutychus. (Acts 9:36-40) Peter gave life to Dorcas. And in (Matthew 5:41 Jesus gives life to Talitha and says to the little girl, "get up". Not immortality, but life. You can say that they were given life and that is correct. NOT immortality. But they all were resurrected from death.
Let's see what Jesus has to say about this from his own mouth (Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Handle me and see - for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.)
Read Matthew 22:28, Matthew 27:53, Luke 14:14, 1 Cor. 15:1--------------and read Revelations 20:4-5, 2 Timothy 2:23-24.
Anthony, would you have me believe that all these scriptures are "spurious"? Surely not. And if the answer is yes, then why do we bother reading it? Why not just read some sci-fi book?
We love each and every one of you like a member of our family.
In the Spirit of Jesus
Dewey & Paula
Goin' out on a limb for Jesus - why? 'cause that's where the fruit is
AK4:
Hi Dewey and Paula,
Apology accepted. Like i mentioned before sometimes i may word things wrong. Alot of the times i type faster than what i think.
I will address your last post though. You quote 2 tim 2:23-24
2:23
Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.
2:24
And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
I wasnt havent an arguement, especially one that would start a quarrel. I posted what i came to in my studies and i asked what did any of you guys think and if im on the wrong track, help me get back on track.
--- Quote ---In the New Testament, it says Jesus raised a number of people. Jesus raised Jairus' daughter shortly after death. Jesus also brought back a young man right in the midst of his own funeral. And check out Lazarus - dead for four days. Before I go any further, I want to point out that immortality and resurrection are two different words. All these people that I'm telling you about came back to life - not immortality (John 11:44 Lazarus lives). The word resurrection is found 40 times in this old bible that I have. Let's take for example (Acts 20:9-10). Paul gave life to Eutychus. (Acts 9:36-40) Peter gave life to Dorcas. And in (Matthew 5:41 Jesus gives life to Talitha and says to the little girl, "get up". Not immortality, but life. You can say that they were given life and that is correct. NOT immortality. But they all were resurrected from death
Let's see what Jesus has to say about this from his own mouth (Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Handle me and see - for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.)
--- End quote ---
Yes, immortality and resurrection are two different words. You quoted scriptures that is proving what i said i was coming up with. And these verse you quoted arent resurrections per se. I wont state again what i put in the post earlier, but if there is only one resurrection and as it is said in Dan 12:2 that both are given age-abiding (the same word is used for both)--one to Life (one of the benefits being immortality) and one to contempt (maybe havent gained immortality yet, but will later). I am not seeing where it is saying there are two different resurrections, but both are raised at the same time.
As for Luke 24:39 what about the rest of the chapter--
51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53 And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.
This is backing up what i was saying about those healing the nations with bodies given to the Just, bodies like Jesus.
All i am looking for is the Truth.
Now i've been wondering about the word resurrection when it is used in Revelations. I guess my question to all is, since the book of Revelations is a book of symbols, when resurrection is used in it, could it have an even higher meaning for the just in the resurrection-- something like given immortality, faith, knowledge & understanding about who God and Jesus are, a body like Jesus'---you know all the gifts that come with believing that the unjust and wicked do not have now and will learn and possibly get after going through the LOF. (this is assuming still about the only one resurrection theory) I dont know im just rambling off the top of my head right now.
Tell me what you guys think
All in Jesus ;D
Anthony
AK4:
Funny i raise this thread back from the dead (resurrection), but i still am thinking on this.
Now Ray stated that in Revelations the is, was, and will be. So with this in mind this has been eating at my brain lately that resurrection has a higher meaning than the literal raising of the dead (resurrection).
Could it be that Jesus has been raising the spiritually dead to spiritual life? I think so.
I will go further with this later but right now i cant because im at work
Marlene:
To All: Last night, before I went to sleep I was reading John Chapter 7
at the end it said;The earliest manuscripts and many other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53-8 :11. I was tired and never gave it anymore thought till I read what Rodger was talking about.
I believe that God is all knowing. Yes, I believe he knew this would happen. I believe he allowed this. The church I left that I had gone to all my married life, was reading out of the NIV. However, we had people who would not give up there King James. My mother in-law called one night and said"There was a big argument over missing verses in the Niv. thaat were in the Kings James. She called to ask me what I thought. I did not know at that time what to make of it.
But, now that I am here and believe truth. I am with people searching like I am for truth. Makes your wonder why no minister ever saw this Rodger, like you were talking about. The people who liked the King James left because of the difference in the NIV. I do know of a preacher, saying once that we would have to have the original manusripts to know the truth. All, I know is when I was a child I read scriptures in Timothy and I never saw him anything but the Savior of the World. I use to spend most of my time with a one on one Relationship with Jesus. After, I grew up and sinned I got into going into churches and then got there opinions not Gods. The Bible does say we have to come to him with childlike faith or we won't come to him. Church teaches us to
live the old and new covenant cause they do not know him. The do not have the spirit. I found out I did not know God at all, cause I was listening to man say yes he is love, but he is angry, jealous , has wrath and such. They went way out of line on those. They created fear in us. We have peace with God.
All the different religions were confusing to me. The way we belive is nothing ,but peace for me. God says "I am not author of confusion."
Yes, I kind of wonder about the devil is loosed for a while to tempt those who are in the White Throne Judgement.
I just wanted to say that ,I read exactly what Rodger did. I also believe that God would leave what we need to know, but we must have one on one contact with him. He will show us truth. I begged for it one night and I found Ray's website. All I can say, Ray understands truth by the spirit.Just like we are looking at the scriptures now the same way and wanting to learn more and more. I would just love to see the faces of those who did not know truth and who did not believe when he shows his LOVE to them. All, I can say the night I learned and believed the truth was the most wonderful and only true time I really worshiped him with Love and truth.
In His Love
Marlene
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