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[Dennis Vogel]

http://bible-truths.com/praying.htm

[Becky]

Great paper!  It got me really thinking and I have a question!

 My family (parents and sister)  trasditionally prayed around the dinner table.  I feel that it has become too habitual.  We don't have to pray at dinner all the time do we?  Am I ungrateful for not thanking God for my dinner every day (at dinner time)?  

Also when we'd go out to dinner at a restaurant, we'd pray as a group.  I cant do this anymore. I dont want to draw attention to myself.  I feel it looks pious.  I feel guilty when I bow my head in a restaurant, because by that pont, I'm so distracted from not wanting to pray in public, that I don't even pray...geee....

Looking at prayer in a whole new light is hard to do.  I want to really understand the details of prayer.

[Daniel]

Ray wrote,

We will be forgiven our sins ONLY if we forgive those who sin against us. We really need to give this some thought. We cannot bless God while cursing our enemy or our fellow man, and expect God to bless us (James 3:9).

Daniel writes,

Amen Ray!!!! This was a beautiful paper, I agree with Becky, I enjoyed this one among the many.

Ray writes,

While it is true that "…God cannot be tempted with evil, neither temps He any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed" (James 1:13-14), we must also consider that wherever temptation is, there also is Satan:

"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise… And the woman said [to God] The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat" (Gen. 3:6 & 13).

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ" (II Cor. 11:3).

"Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil … All these things will I [Satan] give you [Jesus], if you will fall down and worship me" (Matt. 4:1 & 9).

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts [desires, temptations] of your father ye will do…" (John 8:44).

"Be sober; be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion walks about, seeking whom he may devour [swallow down]" (I Pet. 5:.

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world…" (Rev. 12:9).

Satan, not God is the great tempter, and he has temped and deceived the whole world. But here is where God does come in. After we are tempted of Satan, God is our Redeemer:

"And the servant of the Lord must not strive, but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing [correcting] those that oppose themselves; if God peradvanture will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves [‘…but deliver us from the wicked one’ Matt. 6:13] out of the snare [Gk: ‘trap, temptation’] of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will" (II Tim. 2:24-26).

Daniel writes,

1Titus 6:3 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

A thought of this one through Rays paper came to me

Job 41:34 He beholdeth all high [things]: he is a king over all the children of pride. children of the devil?

God resists "the proud" (we should resist the devil, not ignorant of his devices right? or the lusts of the flesh). He resists "the proud"gives grace to the humble can these be related?

Great paper Ray!!!

Daniel

[Daniel]

Amen Bobby! Pray in secret He sees in secret  Unless ofcourse the reward you seek is only the praise of men verses the praise of God.

Mathew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

No one would pray "in secret" (where the Father sees) for ones enemies if they did not believe this. I'll tell you it was not the first thing that came to my mind either, but God does see this kind of prayer according to His will. I love that it is written, "that ye may be" the childrren of your Father in heaven. Thanksgiving to Him! Ray has that right.

It does speak somewhere of others becoming "unthankful" :shock:

Daniel

[SteveB]

Wonderful Paper!

A lot of questions answered and urge everyone to read.

The 'must be' revelation is a great Truth hidden by the translators. I wasnt aware of it.

I to find myself thanking God for 'small things' like childrens smiles, flowers, birds, clouds, the wind etc.

I really loved these two verses...

"Be rejoicing in the Lord always! Again, I will declare, be rejoicing! Let your lenience be known to all men: The Lord is near. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING, but in everything, by prayer and petition, WITH THANKSGIVING, let your requests be made known to God, and the peace of God, that is superior to every frame of mind, shall be garrisoning your hearts and your apprehensions in Christ Jesus.

For the rest, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is grave, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is agreeable, whatever is renowned—if there be any virtue, and if any applause, be taking these into account. What you learned also, and accepted and hear and perceived in me, these be putting into practice, and the God of peace will be with you" (Phil. 4-9, Concordant Literal N.T.).



Peace...Steve

[eutychus]

yes a good paper indeed, pretty much confermation on what i already knew.

 sure feels good in the spirit when that confermation comes,
 
 what joy and fellowship in the LORD.

 peace
chuck

[SOTW]

"And forgive us our debts [sins] as we forgive our debtors…"

We will be forgiven our sins ONLY if we forgive those who sin against us. We really need to give this some thought. We cannot bless God while cursing our enemy or our fellow man, and expect God to bless us (James 3:9).

If LoveMagnified is reading... doesn't that look familiar.  :wink:

Good article.  \/

[love_magnified]

Yeah...

I'm going to go read it now.

[SandyFla]

My family (parents and sister)  trasditionally prayed around the dinner table.  I feel that it has become too habitual.  We don't have to pray at dinner all the time do we?  Am I ungrateful for not thanking God for my dinner every day (at dinner time)?...

I usually pray because Jesus prayed (gave thanks or blessed the food) before eating, even in public (Matthew 14:19). But I wonder ... is blessing the food the same as praying? Jesus also blessed the children who came to Him; does that mean He prayed over them?

I haven't had time to read the paper yet. Perhaps the answers are in there, so don't mind my ramblings!  :wink:

Sandy

[ertsky]

that was an edifying read to say the least.

pretty awesome to see Ray's "inner man" shining through a little there too.

that Thankfulness in the spirit that God has so obviously worked into Ray's life, and an appreciation for all of God's great works as they are revealed.

and as always some straight up exhortation to venture deeper into an accurate apprehension of God's Word.

gotta thank God for roofers!

f

[Steve Crook]

Please don't be offended when you see me pray and bless my food and drink before all my meals, and I won't be offended if you do not

It was a great paper, and I hope everyone takes away something from it.

Let the Lord be magnified.

[Falconn003]

A wonderful article well written.

B R A V O ....

Rodger

[Anchor]

I have never been much of one to pray in public and/or before meals.  When I was growing up my dad always said a prayer before we ate and it always seemed repetitive and superficial to me.  It's not that I'm ungrateful for my food or anything, but I don't think we should make a show of prayer:

Matt 6:6 But when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

I believe that a person can  silently give a prayer to God in his heart. (Where God's Spirit dwells) (Ephesians 5:19 .... Romans 8:9)

I personally feel  that it is especially good to give thanks to God right before eating meat.  (Remembering that we are eating the flesh of one of God's creatures who lost it's life on account of man taking it for food.)
I feel this way on account of what the apostle Paul said to Timothy:   1 Timothy 4:1-5

So giving thanks to God in a silent way, (in our hearts) is another way to give our thanks to God  before eating.   (And then you don't have to wait until you go home.)

Blessings,  
               Anchor~

[Anchor]

" But I wonder ... is blessing the food the same as praying?

Sandy

Why should food need to be blessed?  We should be blessing our heavenly Father for providing us with the food.  (For instance:  "Thankyou and bless you Father, for our food."    

Blessings
                Anchor~[/b]

[Patrick]

I really loved the section where Ray writes about speaking to Him like we speak to our father and falling asleep during prayer.
I only had a few instances where I felt I could speak to my dad openly (just a little background and someday I will post my testimony; my dad had a brain tumor, had it removed, ten years later he has brain cancer. I got a call from Hospice to get my butt home [ I live 900 miles from my family], 2 days later I am driving up to dads house and I see the funeral home people rolling the gurney in the house, I was 2 hours late). I always hid stuff from my dad and I was the wild one of the 4 kids. Can't do that with The Father, so I don't seem to have a problem speaking to Him.


I often fall asleep speaking to the Father. It just feels so good to be able to speak openly.
Great article, again.

[gmik]

Patrick thank you for sharing that.  Please do post your testimony soon.

I just re read Ray's paper and took notes.  Very helpful.  My praying days of old are done.  this just made so much sense to desire Gods'Will in my life above all and then I will get answered prayer.  I just love that.

One thing I can't quite grasp yet-Ray says that all the praying in the world won't change God's plan.  But if I am praying and begging and pleading for something that is not in His will, isn't it His will that I am praying and begging etc....

Also, Praying amiss so we can consume on our own lusts.  How can I pray amiss if it is God inspiring me to pray?  Wouldn't it still be in God's plan that I am praying that way?

I am in no ways criticizing what Ray is saying, Just that I don't quite get it yet.  I am still new and learning-maybe my eyes aren't quite open here.
If any can clear it up it would be appreciated.

[Anchor]

Hi Anchor,

I agree; my point was not that we should take Jesus' words literally and only pray in our rooms with the door closed, or that we should not give thanks for our food, but that whenever or wherever we pray, it should not be for other people to see.

God bless,
Isabell

Yes, especially if is is to make ourself appear overly righteous before others  if we may be trying to impress.  (Such as like the Scribes and PHarisees did)


For we know that Jesus prayed quite often in front of  and in earshot of his disciples.  (And Peter in sight and earshot of his jailors)  So  it depends upon our motive when doing so.  (The Scribes and Pharisees apparently were not praying to be heard by God but instead  were hypocritical because they were doing so  for the purpose of being seen by men. (To gain  the favor and praise of men.)

Blessings,
               Anchor~

[love_magnified]

Isabell, amen. It's not about method. It is about intent.

[nightmare sasuke]

I like the paper! Good thing is, I didn't learn anything! Once you understand all things move according to God's will, then the Truth behind prayer becomes clear. I never realized how much emotional pain Yeshua went through in the heart of the Earth before death, though.

This paper is good for those not yet weaned from milk. I printed it out, I'm showing it to my mother.

Yet another great paper by Ray!