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Author Topic: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?  (Read 14302 times)

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legoman

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How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« on: September 02, 2008, 06:47:59 PM »

Hi folks,

First day posting here.

I first came across Ray's articles about 8 months.  Intially I was blown away.  God finally made sense.  I had sometimes wondered if God was so good, why would he let many be tortured in a fire forever.  I couldn't resolve it, so I tended to just not think about it :)

Anyway when I first read Ray's teachings, I was so excited.  Things were making sense.  I initially tried to share it with my wife, but she didn't really get where I was coming from, and gave the standard responses like people go to hell because of free will, etc.  So we had a pretty heartfelt conversation, but she didn't really believe me.  The problem was I was still too new.  I was in info-overload mode.  I knew I had read something that explained all this, but I couldn't explain it to another person.

So I decided to take another tact, and slow down a bit.  I spent the next 8 months reading Ray's articles, re-reading them, reading other sources (like tentmaker), reading the counter arguments (like at CARM and elsewhere), and coming to my own conclusions.  My beliefs only got stronger.  And I find on re-reading Ray's articles and closely examining the bible, it is all starting to make sense, and I am now getting to the point where I can explain this to another person and back up what I am saying.

So my next step was to get practice in debating this.  I initially joined a non-christian relious forum that discussed Christianity a lot.  That was a mistake.  I tried posting about universalism there, but I either got the standard Christian answers, or a bunch of athiests saying "if there is no free will then there is no sin blah blah blah jesus was irrelevant then".  It was difficult debating without a common base.

My purpose in all this was to refine my understanding and see if I could prove to myself what Ray was saying was true and what the bible says.

So the next plan was to go to a Christian forum and start debating.  This is kindof where I'm at now.  I joined bibleforums.com (I have the same userid over there) and have been debating why we don't have free will and what really happens at death.  There is a hitch - "universalism" is not allowed to be debated in their main bible chat forum.  Kind of laughable.  I guess if they can't defend their position then I guess "no debate allowed" is the rule.  Anyway I have been trying to raise contradictions that the traditional church teaches and see where the debate leads.  I try to focus on the scriptures and keep the debate polite and respectable.

It has been a good learning experience for me and I'm getting good at finding passages, especially the ones Ray likes to quote :)

So that leads me to today.  So far I've only really talked about this with my wife and a few people online.  And no one has had the light bulb "go on" so to speak like it did for me.  I'm wondering what other peoples experiences were in this regard?  It seems so obvious to me now, that Jesus is the savior of all and God will's it.  That's what the bible says and it couldn't be any clearer.

I would really like to share this all with my parents, specifically my Mom, but so far haven't had the courage.  My mom is a staunch Christian, and she gave me my Christian convictions.  While growing up we actually changed churches several times because my parents didn't think that particular church was teaching what the bible said.  So I am hopeful my Mom will be open to this, but I need to have my foundation setup first.

Any encouraging words or stories would be appreciated :)

Thanks,
Legoman
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Linny

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2008, 07:55:10 PM »

Hi Legoman, Welcome. I am like you in that I like to debate. However, with age, I have learned that debating isn't always the thing God wants me to do.

I have taken to heart and used a scripture that Ray used about people asking me a question. Here are 3 translations...

1Pe 3:15

(ASV)  but sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord: being ready always to give answer to every man that asketh you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, yet with meekness and fear:

(CEV)  Honor Christ and let him be the Lord of your life. Always be ready to give an answer when someone asks you about your hope.

(ESV)  but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,


I have not spoken to anyone who is very deeply involved in the church UNLESS they have asked me a direct question that required me to come clean about something that is considered heresy to the church.

By doing this, the people who I have talked to have been open to what I had to say. And I don't go on and on unless I feel led to add to what they asked. For example, free will came up the other day with a friend. She would not be open to anything else I have learned but I did tell her how I felt about free will. Another friend brought up tithing to me and asked me a direct question. I gave her Ray's tithing paper after we spoke because she wanted to know more. There are only 3 others I have talked to about BT things and they were very interested.

My Brother in law is a pastor. It will take a direct nudge from the Lord before I will open my mouth to him. He has his doctorate in theology and is completely engulfed in Babylonian thinking. It would serve no purpose right now to speak up. I pray that God will open the door one day however.

So my advise to you is to wait on the Lord to let you know who is ready to hear it. Otherwise, don't throw your pearls to swine.  ;)
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carol v

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2008, 08:17:45 PM »

Well, Lego, I wish I could be encouraging but in the 4 years I've been on this road, no one has listened yet. My boyfriend kind of sees the truth but then he puts the car in reverse if it means he can't be a Presbyterian. I've been told by a great friend that I'm talking to Satan on the internet and this was just in telling her that her little sister was asleep and not currently with Jesus. When I showed her the scriptures, she said I was twisting it. After many such experiences, I have given up.

Very few people are called to be teachers. Debating in forums is going to go nowhere. Usually, when we debate, we  have a feeling of pride that we are right and they are wrong. That feeling of pride in ourselves itself will make the argument ineffective because God is going to burn the pride right out of us. It's absolutely true that only God can open eyes. You won't debate anyone to the truth.

You probably already know the following scriptures but they have helped me immensely.

1Pe 3:15  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Tit 3:9  But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Tit 3:10  A man that is a heretic after the first and second admonition reject;


So Peter lets me know that my job is to simply be ready with an answer IN MEEKNESS -- in other words, if God wants me to talk someone will ask me. I try to follow this and when I don't, I notice that I have no effect except to make myself look like a self-righteous know-it-all.

And Titus tells me what I said above -- that debating is foolish and vain and usually for my own pride. I'm not supposed to do it. And if I do happen to find myself in some kind of debate then one or two admonitons is all I am to give it.

I was so thrilled when I first learned these truths that I thought everyone would be SO happy to know them too. Uh-uh. If someone isn't asking a question then don't tell them more than a simple witness for why you have "the hope that is within you."

God wants us humble and if we aren't, well He will certainly burn it out. So always witness "in meekness and in fear."

And I have made every single mistake I just listed and still sometimes fall into it. A recent discussion with my ex-husband and his newest woman friend come to mind. I am as guilty of vain babblings as anyone but I do it much, much less. Those fires God sets aren't pleasant!

Carol
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AK4

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2008, 08:25:14 PM »

Hey welcome Legoman,

I am with you on the overload thing.  It was like WOW.  I tried to discuss stuff with my brother and he would put a defense and all the answers would come to me at once but i would (and still do) get so overloaded with answers,  that i couldnt answer at that time.  Then later about 15 minutes after we stopped discussing, the answer was clear as day.  My biggest problem i think i have is when i talk to someone about God, its like i get so excited and happy that my thoughts get jumbled up and it gets hard for me to focus and just answer whats at hand.  

I have the problem sometimes where in trying to answer whatever it is at hand, i try not to give a complicated answer--basically i try to answer the question with the simpliest answer, but then realise "well jeez, they wont know what im talking about if they dont know this over here". And then i get a little scatterbrained.

The approach i use the most is i try to get a feel on what may be the most pertanent thing in someones mind (religion or whatever).  For example there is this guy at work who thinks hes real smart so if figured i see what he thought on free will and of course he says we have free will. So i challenge him to tell me if he could tell me one thing he has ever done that didnt have a cause.  He couldnt find anything and that "lured him in".  I figure if you can prove one thing that may be somewhat important to that person theyll listen to you more.

I want to do the same thing in another forum, practise to see how to refute those who contradict but i dont know of any forums.  Like you, i see the value it does in helping me learn.  I learn alot from this forum and am very thankful for everyone here.

As for opening any eyes to God, thats a big fat zero.  With Gods help i would say out of maybe 10 i have about 3 or 4 halves or quarter points. (So i might have 1) Their eyes may open to one thing, but not all.  Somethings they just wont let go.

In Jesus,

Anthony
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Akira329

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2008, 08:38:18 PM »

Hey Legoman,
Your going to find this road a difficult one!
We have to remember only God can drag them to these truths.
I'm convinced no amount of debate will open another man's eyes unless he's ready to receive it.
When their ready to receive it, they will ask you.

My close friend since high school was introduced to this site by me(only after he asked)
We talked a few times through email and he said he would give it some thought/reflect on the site and what I said.
I haven't heard from him since.

We grew up debating and fighting church doctrine all our lives,
I thought he would have been the most receptive friend but I'm not so sure.

My thoughts and advice would be to live your life according to the truth and believe me,
people will wonder why you live the way you do and be prepared to be called ever name in the book!!

Antaiwan
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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

gmik

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2008, 09:23:06 PM »

Unfortunately this has been a sobering thread, but oh so true.

It is God ONLY who can/will open any eyes.  Thanks be to God for dragging us to himself!  Nothing I did to deserve it for sure.  For some reason, He is not dragging so many of our loved ones with us.  Nothing they did or didn't.  He is the potter and we the clay.

I have had the same or similar experiences w/ all of the above posts!!  Now, I almost guard my truth as precious and they really better want to know before I get into it!  Rays paper on reaching the lost really touched me and freed me of guilt.  No, I don't need to preach to anyone.  I need to learn this truth first and apply it in my life.  Thats job 1 for me right now.

I don't know how you would search it but this forum is filled w/ posts about all our experiences and trials and victories.

As for me, Legoman, my son got me onto Ray's website, and then I basically read most of his stuff to my husband who got excited like me about it.  My other two kids--nope, nada, can't even discuss or debate it anymore!

Many are called but few are chosen.
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hillsbororiver

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2008, 09:35:39 PM »

Same experience here!  ;)

Gena mentioned Ray's article that really deals with this matter, and it is truly a burden lifter, I will paste a couple parts of it here;


GOD PREDETERMINES WHO GETS SAVED AND WHEN

"Now we are aware that God [Who? GOD. Men—ourselves? NO—GOD] is working all together for the good of those who are loving God who are called according to the purpose that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren. Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls also, and whom He calls, these He justifies also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also" (Rom. 8:28-30, Concordant Literal New Testament).

It is ALL OF GOD. It is not wrong to tell others of your knowledge of God and His Word. It is not, however, your responsibility to "get people saved." Only God can do that.

It is GOD who does the calling:

"For ye see your calling brethren how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen [Who? ‘GOD’] the weak things of this world to confound the things which are mighty…" (I Cor. 1:26-27).

It is GOD who does the dragging:

"No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent Me, draw him [Gk: ‘drag him’]…" (John 6:44).

It is CHRIST Who chooses from those His Father dragged:

"Ye have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16).

Eventually this will include all mankind:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" (John 12:32).

And all will respond to God’s judgments and chastisements:

"That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, and those in earth, and those under the earth; And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10-11—See also Isa. 26:9b).

And let’s not forget:

"…no man CAN say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit" (I Cor. 12:3b).

Which is totally contrary to the horrible teachings of such men as John Hagee and Herbert W. Armstrong on this subject. Herbert Armstrong said: "Yes, every knee will bow, and if they don’t GOD WILL BREAK THEIR KNEES." Oh the unscriptural foolishness of carnal—minded men.

But do orthodox Christians believe that these Scriptures mean what they say? Of course not, and that is why they quote Phil. 2:12 "…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling," thinking that this takes Sovereignty away from God and places it back with man and his fabled "free will." Not so. They forget to read the next verse which tells us why we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling:

"For [‘for’ means ‘because’] it is GOD [Who? Man? NO! ‘GOD’] which works in you both TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).


LIGHT AND SALT DON’T ARGUE OR MAKE NOISE

"Ye are the salt of the earth… Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid… Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 5:1,14,16).

Salt does not make any noise, and light does not argue Scriptures. Neither salt nor light makes any sound whatsoever. Maybe there is a lesson in there.

Too many people learn a few truths of God and think that they are ready to take on the world. They usually start by trying to embarrass their Pastor with their new-gained knowledge. Usually they fall flat on their face on the very first try. It’s all about motivation. If your motivation is carnal, God will not back you. Yes, I know, all of you are saying: "But my motivation is to show them God’s truths." Yes, sure, I understand, but THEY DON’T WANT TO HEAR GOD’S TRUTHS, and you already know this, so what is your point? Leave them alone and let them taste your salt and see your light and admire your good works, and perchance they will even praise God for your new-found humility,

You will never argue anyone into accepting the truths of God’s Word. As salesmen are often taught: "You might win the argument, but loose the sale," so don’t argue. And this: "He who is persuaded against his will; is of the same opinion still."

I receive a lot of emails from people who beg me to come to their rescue because they are about to have a second session with their pastor or friend, but have failed miserably on the first go-round. Now they want me to give them the ammunition they need to do a slam-dunk on their second attempt to embarrass their pastor or friend. Give it up—that attitude is wrong. Such a carnal exhibition of prideful flesh is akin to someone looking for a street fight merely because he has just acquired a black belt in karate.

Read it all here;

http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm

Peace,

Joe




« Last Edit: September 02, 2008, 09:39:20 PM by hillsbororiver »
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Jackie Lee

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 12:30:37 AM »

I am still fairly new to the truths God has revealed to me through Ray's teachings.
Most of people I have talked to get absolutely frantic when I say there is no freewill, I am still struggling with *No Freewill* and second guessing myself.
I absolutely know there isn't freewill but I struggle.
Then there is Hell funny thing most people like the idea of hell, it seems to be what keeps them going.
Most christians don't want to believe their love ones are dead until resurrection either.
I always get the quote from Paul absent from the body present with the Lord.
So no I haven't had any sucess at all and rarely talk about it unless asked directly.
I feel it is better to be mum on the subject, unless I know it is time to speak.
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Triton

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 12:35:22 AM »

Hello Legoman,


I can so totally relate to what you are saying.

May I just add that I've at some point found myself between a rock and a hard place. Well, maybe still sometimes, or so it seems.

I've also read 'bibleforums' and found them lacking in truth, and especially lacking in honesty. Sadly. But I understand that it is God's will.

It is difficult to accept though, because it is so much the opposite from what we have been told since birth (free will)


I've come to understand the truth that God is actually God and that He does have a plan of bringing all and everything to Him, but each

one at his appointed time. The fact that I have not one person seeing it the way we see it here on the net, in my life where I live and

work, has at times made me 'doubt' the truth. And I've at times thought of going back and following orthodox church basically because

of the huge amount of people who doesn't see it the way we do.

But God hasn't led me back. He has kept taking me farther away from orthodox Christianity. He has used, what I believe, the Benny

Hinns and Todd Bentleys to show me the untruths of orthodox Christianity. How people can believe these false teachers and defend

them, when they are clearly saying things that are the opposite of the Bible, is beyond my understanding. But this just proves that we

don't have free will and that only God can open our eyes, and evidently that God doesn't open everyone's eyes until He decides to.


The size of orthodox Christianity is overwhelming. But, so was Goliath. And only David stood up against him. David's own people didn't.

They had not the faith. And we here know where faith comes from.


And just one more thing. Especially being married, with a spouse who still is not seeing the truths, makes it all just so much harder. I'm

sure that in itself is a test given to us from God. We should love our wives and our husbands. It's God's decision when and how He will

show them the truths. We can help, but if it's not His time for them, or any other friend, it just ain't gonna happen.



Be strong
Paul

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lilitalienboi16

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2008, 12:41:41 AM »

Pretty unsuccsesful as it is God who does all the opening. I know Jesus didn't convert a single person while He was alive. I guess that mean's He didn't open a single person's eyes up to God's Truths while He was alive? If it does, than my chances are pretty slim, actualy non existant :P

God bless,

Alex
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legoman

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 02:11:52 AM »

Thanks for all the replies so far.  At least I don't feel alone in this matter :) Its kindof the response I expected.

As far as the debating goes, I don't think I'm doing it to be prideful, though I can see it does creep in there sometimes.  I can totally see the point about not debating fools... learned that the first time when I was posting in the non-christian forum.  I now see its totally true you must go into Babylon before you can come out of her.  If you haven't even been in the church to begin with, none of what Ray is saying would make sense.

Anyway believe it or not I think I may be making minor progess over at bibleforums.  Most of my discussions have been about free will.  Most people don't buy into it, even though its easy to see from Romans 9 and the multitude of other verses (Ephesians 1:4, romans 11:32,etc).  I have had a couple people respond with thoughtful questions, saying they hadn't seen these ideas before... so perhaps I am planting some seeds.  But it does seem like most people are only trying to debate me and therefore justify free will in their own minds. 

I totally agree that only God can draw people in, but he does use us to achieve his will.  I can only hope that maybe I have planted some seeds, or "watered previous seeds" as someone put it. 

But as I said the posting online is primarily a way for me to learn & verify what Ray is saying.  It gives me a good devil's advocate.  I look at it this way - I was deceived for the 30 years of my life I was going to church - I don't want to be deceived again.  I want to make sure the truths revealed here are correct.  And so far I'm convinced what Ray is saying is the truth.  I now read what mainstream Christians say, and I realize the obvious flaws in their thinking.  That's what frustrates me - if I figured this out, I need to share this, cause this is so uplifting and makes sense of everything.  I mean one of the biggest arguments that athiests use is that God doesn't make sense because he condemns everyone to hell.  But he really doesn't!  But no atheist will believe it because the church says he does.  So frustrating.  LOL.  I'm sure eventually I will be posting about universalism and I will get banned from their forum, and probably go down in a blaze, but perhaps I will have opened someone's eyes.  But I have to remember it is only God's will that will open someone's eyes I guess.

Anyway the real reason for this post is not about me debating people in forums, but me opening the eyes of the people I love, especially my wife and my parents.  I think I can explain it to my wife now, but we just never seem to get around to talking about these things.  I think I have to set aside "serious discussion" time and actually go through it all with her.

Its even harder with my parents as they live about 2000 miles from us, so we only see them maybe 2-3 times a year.  Its kind of hard for me to bring this up on the phone or via email.  I'm such a chicken :)  Hopefully I will discuss it a bit when I see them at thanksgiving.  I'm worried how it will go though.

Sometimes I think I should just send my Mom a link to Ray's site saying "hey check this out" and that's it.  Maybe let the site speak for itself.  But I worry the lightbulb won't go on for her and she will think I'm crazy and have become a new-age "satanist" or something.  My mom & Dad were pretty diehard - growing up in the 80s, they didn't want us playing D&D or anything like that.  We were pretty committed to the church, and I got my convictions from her, which I thank her for.  If the light bulb does go on for her, I could see her potentially breaking down and crying.  It will be tough.

Thanks for listenening...

Kevin aka Legoman
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legoman

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2008, 02:16:54 AM »

Oops sorry I just realized the other forum I have been posting at is bibleforums.org, not bibleforums.com, just in case anyone wanted to check it out.

Please don't take this as a solicitation for that site.  Just wanted to clarify.

Cheers,
Legoman
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2008, 03:17:02 AM »

One thing I have noticed (and hugely appreciated) is the myriad and individual ways God our Father has prepared each of us to recieve this truth.  WE didn't all come to believe in the same way, so why do we assume that those we want to reach must come the same way?  Maybe that's part of the reason for Anthony's 'flusteration'.  Despite the fact that we here share many beliefs in common, God has guided our own paths, beliefs, experiences, mental, emotional, and spiritual framework to make it possible for us to recieve this Truth in His good time.

I've come to the conclusion that until the fruits of the Spirit are yeilded in ME to a greater extent than they are in my Church-going, devotional reading, 'trying' Christian loved ones, it would be folly for me to ask them to exchange what they have (by God's grace) for what I have (by God's grace).  They are not the enemy to me.  I am.  The one I need to debate with the hardest is my own carnal flesh.  Until that ******* is beat, I'm no better than Hagee trying to preach.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

legoman

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2008, 03:30:01 AM »

That is a good point Dave.  I know I have a long way to go to rid myself of the "carnal mind".  And I know I can't do it myself, I need to pray more, and allow God to work in me, and hope God will prepare me for what lies ahead.

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Kent

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2008, 09:21:00 AM »

I have better luck with non-christians than I do with those stuck in churchianity. Not that I can convert anyone, that is not my job, and I never get mad at them. Frustrated sometimes yes, but not mad.

I've had more civil conversations with satanists, wiccans, and muslims than I have ever had with "christians". "christians" will not engage in a civil and kind conversation. Try it, and you will see hate. Real hate. The satanists, wiccans, and muslims are kind and considerate by comparison. I also think that they are just more intelligent and are more open to the truth.
I know, there are exceptions to this, and I have dealt with them too...

When I "debate", I do not do it for the benefit of the person I am debating with. I do it for those others that overhear or read it. The person I am debating with will never be convinced, and I know that going in. It plants a seed, IMO, and it is up to God to grow that seed.

I am like Ray, in this regard. Not that I know as much as he does, but in the sense that I do not go on the defensive, but I go on the offensive without being offensive, if you know what I mean. Oh, the "christians" think I am being offensive, that is for sure  :D but others know.

I really recommend Rays' audios too. You will learn a lot.


Edited to add:
You will not know, or will not always know, the effect you have on others. Dont let this discourage you.
We won't find that out, until Jesus tells us what effect we had on others.  I just personally hope I didn't screw up too badly...
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 09:38:07 AM by Kent »
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AK4

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2008, 09:37:10 AM »

Quote
They are not the enemy to me.  I am.  The one I need to debate with the hardest is my own carnal flesh.  Until that ******* is beat, I'm no better than Hagee trying to preach.

Amen. 

I dont know about most of you, but im seriously all alone where i live.  There is noone i know around here i can talk with about God in any sense or form, so i guess any opportunity i get i "jump" on it.  Which can be a bad thing. Without this forum here i would be completely all alone.  So thats why i try to get a feel for someone first because where i live, it seems no one is even interested in talking about their God unless its Sunday morning or Wednesday bible study---And i wont go any church just to have "company".  After reading this thread though i see the need to be careful about "jumping" into these conversations.

Flusterations--LOL, you have know idea :D

Anthony
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legoman

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2008, 10:36:34 AM »

For those that have tried to open eyes of their close family... what happened after?  Especially if the light bulb did not go on so to speak, what did they think of you after?  Did they just forget about it?  Or did they now think of you as the black sheep with the "kooky new age" ideas?

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kweli

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Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2008, 11:19:50 AM »

Black sheep is the understatement of the century. It was more like "satanist", "devil worshipper", "son of perdition being mentioned in the bible", stuff like that. But you get used to it, the fact that these god-fearing, spirit-filled, charming people are actually your 'lost' family members.
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Linny

  • Guest
Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2008, 12:25:21 PM »

Legoman,
Keep in mind that what we believe here is by definition, heresy.
Heresy is when you go against Church doctrine.

If you share these "heresies" with people who have not ears to hear, they will be like the Pharisees who screamed, "Blasphemer!"

Who needs that? ::) :-X

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frecklegirl417

  • Guest
Re: How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2008, 12:57:35 PM »

To all,

    I have tried with my mother and someone who says "I am a Pastor" which i posted in: " My big mouth got me in trouble". My mother believes still in the old Babylon way and won't budge an inch but we discuss it and keep right on discussing it. I just keep praying her eyes will open to the truth. IMO....All we can do is pray that God open's the eyes of those still left in Babylon. God already knows who will or won't come to the truth now, we just have to keep trying and maybe some will change, but that is not up to us.

                                              With God's love and understanding,
                                                           Pam
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 01:01:16 PM by frecklegirl417 »
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