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[jerreye]

Joe,

You think that is weird, check out the "Toronto blessing".
It's just plain nuts. Talk about carnal...

Man, you got that right! "Nuts" would be to put it lightly. lol

Here's a YouTube to check out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y79xPczARc8

This is what they call "spiritual drunkenness" or "being drunk in the spirit". Unbelievable!

[WhoAmI]

I don't agree with this idea that because someone falls backward it is something not right.

O.K, I'll say it

If anyone at all stands before these charlatans and falls backwards, forwards, sideways, up, down, left, or right there is something not quite right.

Craig

My issue is with the direction of a fall. To me it is nonsense to try to fault something because of a DIRECTION of a fall. It misses the point to me. But I think you stated it quite clearly.

[WhoAmI]

Jeff,

There once was a King. Two tailors came to town to see the King in order to Make him "Special Clothes".
Now the Tailors told The King and everybody in the town, that only people who were very smart could see the clothes, and that the clothes would be very expensive!

So when the King put on these special clothes he went into town, so everybody could admire his special clothes! .  All his subjects yelled out their praise to the king as he walked by.  Then this one little boy, who tugged on his mothers dress and yelled out,  Mommy Why is The King Naked? 

And the moral to the story is.....

(We've all been fooled here,...in one way or another)

I am not sure why you are telling me this. I would have to say we are still being fooled. This is just another step in the ladder.

Jeff

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Jeff,

It may be nonsense but what I saw on TV was one after another falling backwards not forward, not sideways and not straight down, but backwards. When I checked scriptures to see what connotation or meaning this might have I posted what I found.

Why in the verses quoted was it specifically stated that those who fell, fell backwards, is this nonsense as well? Perhaps you or a loved one had this experience and that is why you are sensitive to this topic, please understand that I am not judging the participants at all but I am questioning the source of this phenomena.

I am of the mind that every word, every description and even every number in scripture has significance, often many layers of significance, perhaps I take it too far at times and maybe this is one of those times.

I apologize for offending you.

Peace,

Joe 

[OBrenda]

I am not sure why you are telling me this. I would have to say we are still being fooled. This is just another step in the ladder.

Jeff

No doubt, I couldn't agree with you more on that!  I try to never think of my walk, as having "Arrived".

I was sharing this story to address your comment that there is no difference in those that were left standing.
I believe the story explains the difference. It's not an arrogant spirit, that Joe is coming from.  The foundation of BT teachings is that we see (a naked King), only because God allows it.

I have seen plenty of beautiful clothed Kings, and I've cheered for the King, I've even been the naked King.

We are just rejoicing that we are able to see our Spiritual King.

I completely embraced the speaking in tongues gift....and several of their teachings.

Now that Toronto thing is to Bizare.......

[Kat]

I just found this email from Ray.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2974.0.html -----

Everyone knows and it has been custom since the beginning of the world, that one bows and faces the King. Falling over backward in the presence of the King would be the height of insult and disrespect!  No one but Satan would come up with such a shamefull exhibition of the carnal flesh. THERE ARE NO SCRIPTURES in this shameful insult of modern ministers. God has nowhere ordained any such wierd and bizarre nonsense.

    God be with you,

    Ray

[Patrick]

O.K, I'll say it

If anyone...falls backwards, forwards, sideways, up, down, left, or right there is something not quite right.

Craig

My Chiropractor gave me "corrective" inserts for my shoes. 

[hillsbororiver]

I just found this email from Ray.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2974.0.html -----

Everyone knows and it has been custom since the beginning of the world, that one bows and faces the King. Falling over backward in the presence of the King would be the height of insult and disrespect!  No one but Satan would come up with such a shamefull exhibition of the carnal flesh. THERE ARE NO SCRIPTURES in this shameful insult of modern ministers. God has nowhere ordained any such wierd and bizarre nonsense.

    God be with you,

    Ray

Hi Kat,

Thanks for digging up that email to Ray, I did not remember (at least consciously) him addressing this issue.

My only purpose in starting this topic was that I thought it was interesting the way scriptures use 'falling backward' as something that perhaps should not be desired, that is why I posted it on this board (Off Topic Discussions) rather than the General Board.

Thanks again,

Joe

[E. Woods]

I have to say No, whenever I went up to be prayed for, I was usually the one left standing.  I went back once but, it was from the preacher pushing my head back, and I allowed my self to fall back. Keep in mind people are usually praying for something in desperation, and have their eyes closed!  If I sensed that I allowed it, then it was my flesh, and not being overcome by the Spirit of God.

I do think that what Krista experienced is more Scriptural, as they use scriptures like when Saul was transformed into Paul on the road to Damascus, or When John fell as one Dead in the book of Revelations!  If one "died" standing up I see one crumpling to the ground like a rag doll, like Krista. 

I think it goes against the law of gravity & physics to fall backwards, without bending your knees? If your eyes are closed and you stiffen your body, you can loose your balance, and someone who pushes your forhead back can make it happen.  Looks like the "Nestea Plunge" to me!

People just really, really want to believe they have been touched by God...

Just my thoughts,
Brenda

[Kat]

Hi Joe,

I've been reading along.  I found that email while searching for something else.  I have not witnessed anybody actually falling backwards, but find it curious also.  I would call it vainglory and just another way that the church shows disrepect for God.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[E. Woods]

I can remember when I was a small child, my Mother would take me to church.
( Pentecostal ) I would see people do all kinds of things that I didn't understand.
   After The years went by, and I had children, I wanted them to be brought up
in a christian home, so I started going to the church my mother brought me up
in. 
   To make a long story short, I think almost everyone who has a deep desire to
go to church and serve God, Wants to go to the church they think is the true church.
No one wants to go to a false church, right, why go?
   When you are young and taught something for years, It takes a long time to get
what ever it is out of your brain.
   If a preacher lays his hand on you and pushes you backward you go along with it,
you are told that is the power of the holy spirit. And you don't want to be an odd ball.
so you go along with it, untill you get all your ducks in a row.
   I am thankful for Ray's teaching.   
   All the people who go along with the fall backward trick, will wake up, Maybe not until
judgement.         God will judge.           
       Earl
 

[WhoAmI]

Hi Jeff,

It may be nonsense but what I saw on TV was one after another falling backwards not forward, not sideways and not straight down, but backwards. When I checked scriptures to see what connotation or meaning this might have I posted what I found.

Why in the verses quoted was it specifically stated that those who fell, fell backwards, is this nonsense as well? Perhaps you or a loved one had this experience and that is why you are sensitive to this topic, please understand that I am not judging the participants at all but I am questioning the source of this phenomena.

I am of the mind that every word, every description and even every number in scripture has significance, often many layers of significance, perhaps I take it too far at times and maybe this is one of those times.

I apologize for offending you.

Peace,

Joe 

First you did not offend me. Second it appears you and others are ASSUMING I mean something other than what I really am. I was in no way defending the pratice of falling in front of ministers of churches. You have people who won't draw a snake or have a book of snakes in their house because the scriptures speak about a serpent in Genesis 3 :1. Also this is done with dragons as well. We have those who do just the opposite and handle snakes to show they have power over the serpent. All these things and MANY more are backed up with SCRIPTURE. How? Because someone backs them up with them. Not because it is actually true. You asked if what the scriptures said concerning falling backwards was nonsense, well if I happen to fall down backwards down a flight of stairs and you try to make a case for my mishap to be a sign of my being a evil sinner. Then yes.

Jeff

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Jeff,

Let your heart be at peace Brother, this topic has nothing to do with falling backward down a flight of stairs, or someone doing a backflip off of a diving board, or slipping on a banana peel and flopping over backwards. 

It only has to do with the contrived, man made sacrament of being slain in the spirit.

In all sincerity,

Joe

[carol v]

This thread reminds me of a time several decades ago when I participated in a hypnotist's trick -- he had me "act like a board" and literally placed me on two chairs where my neck was on the edge of one and my ankles on another with absolutely no support in between -- an impossible feat on my own.

I actually did this.

This hynotist didn't have to use the watch & chain going back and forth thing -- he was actually able to hypnotise us by giving us a hit on the forehead and saying some word -- like "down" or something -- I don't remember. Then he would lift us up on the chairs.

I was actually able to do this along with everyone else.

Hmmmmmmmmm...

[musicman]

Any 80 year olds do it?

[carol v]

No 80 year olds in the class musicman, but I was no olympian. The point is that mind control can be a real effective tool of charlatans. Satan does have some powers for trickery from the spiritual realm. Psychics are right just enough to gain followers and divert people from seeking truth.

If this hypnotist can make a bunch of regular people do a trick they wouldn't be able to do otherwise by hitting on the forehead, well so can charlatan preachers. The effects don't last past the trick.

[Akira329]

I actually had a minister lay hands on me while during a prayer.
During the prayer I cried and didn't know why, just felt compelled to do so.
After the prayer he touch me, not sure if he pushed me but I moved backwards.
I felted again compelled to fall but I didn't, I did feel the resistance to not fall.
After the experience I left the meeting and stood in the hall wondering what happened.
That same day I heard speaking in tongues for the first time.
Went home checked the scriptures on both incidents and never went back to the meeting.

I always thought these things were a kind of peer pressure.
I saw people slain before and maybe subconsciously I thought I should do the same,
but the first and last time it happened to me I resisted.

This verse you used Joe and Ray has mentioned a few times always comes to mind:

Isa 28:13  But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

If anything, I find falling backwards a necessary evil for some. In a spiritual sense.

my two cents
Antaiwan

[Jackie Lee]

When I was in the pentacostal movement, I have fell backward and also once sideways when the preacher blowed his breath in my face.
I don't remember if he had bad breath.
I will tell you that was the most embarassing time of my life those years in the pentacostal church.
I just kept going back for more punishment then in 2,000 I believe it was, I knew I was never to return to that movement.
I have not returned to church except a couple times as guests, once was in the Catholic church.
That was another experience that didn't sit well with me.
I didn't have a clue why I was not to go back to church other than it had become a sick place to be, and I just knew.
I had to go through that though to start understanding some truths.

[winner08]

Now this is too weird. I just finished posting a reply and I mention this exact same thing about falling backwards how they all fall backwards. But when the prophets were visited by a messanger of God they always fell face down (always). I remember Ray speaking on this exact subject.         


                                                     Darren

[winner08]

Man, sorry I have been gone for awhile it seems. this thread was started days ago. I'm just catching up. I also went on a stage yrs ago and this guy prayed over me and then was pushing my forehead so that I would go or fall backwards. I did resist and did not go backwards at all. I don;t think he was happy with me because he pushed harder and harder on my forehead. I kept pushing and pushing forward until he moved on to the next person. That guy just fell over like a ton of bricks. I think some people want to believe so bad that they are being touch by the Holy Spirit they will do just about anything. I seen on the Benny Hinn show that he drops them without even a touch, just a wave of the hand or he blows on them and bam they fall over. It is rather funny to me. I think it was Daniel who was visited by Gabriel and Daniel fell face down and all his might left him. Face first in the dirt. can anyone back this up with scripture?

                                        Darren