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Difficult Passages

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David:

--- Quote from: Sozo on September 05, 2008, 09:02:42 AM ---  Am I thinking from a completely carnal point of view?


--- End quote ---

hillsbororiver:
Hi Eric,

What makes the entire bible a parable is that even physical/historical events recorded have a deeper spiritual meaning that is not always (in fact rarely) easy to discern. Look at Babylon and Nebuchadnezzar for just one example.

There are absolute parables which are not literal but if we read the scriptures as only a history book we are missing out on the true purpose and meaning of His Word.

Peace,

Joe

OBrenda:
Just curious at what age did they marry at this time?
13 years old?

These virgins may have been very young, and years from being given in marriage?

This would make one think differently about it being rape.

Sozo:
Whoa!

Falcon, I see no need to lock this thread.  Eric is only giving input like you.  Anyway, let me clarify something with you...are you saying that these events that you listed are all parables and none are historical? 

Joe, I understand that literal things that took place in the bible have a spiritual meaning.  However, does that mean we completely disregard the historicity of it?  The point I'm trying to make is that I'm not only reading the bible as a history book.  However, history is part of the book and their is truth in the history also.  If we disregard the history, then where would that leave us on Jesus and the resurrection.  The story of our Savior is obviously spiritual, but without the factual history of it....then we are indeed pathetic people.

ericsteven:
Joe,

I know precisely what you and others mean when you say the entire Bible is a parable.  And I agree with you.  Perhaps I didn't make that clear, even though I told you precisely how I choose to describe the events of the Old Testament:  They are actual historical events that God planned and brought to fruition in order to provide examples to us of moral and spiritual truths.  You may see it differently, but nothing in that statement contradicts what I believe you mean when you say the Bible is a parable.

My point - and again, obviously I didn't make it clear – was that based upon Ray's quote “No parable is literal or historical,” which many people may have read, as well as the general connotation that comes along with the word ‘parable,’ that they are fictional stories used to convey a spiritual truth as in the case of many if not all of Jesus’ parables, there are some who may be confused by what is being said.  This is obvious in the fact that James (Sozo) asked the question, “Are these stories actual historical events that took place?”

Also, I believe in meeting people where they are at spiritually, and I honestly don't think Ray would disagree with me.  What I mean by that is what I've heard many times from others, “You don't feed steak to an infant.”  In other words, the spiritual truths of God can not be understood by a carnal babe and we certainly don't force these truths  down their throats.  So we meet them where they are at.  I hope James does not insinuate that I am calling him a carnal babe in Christ and that he can't understand spiritual truths, but obviously he was not responding to all of the attempted spiritual explanations being given. 

I attempted to give him answers to some of his questions based on what the straightforward Scriptures and words in the surrounding text said as well as some understanding from a reputable reference book.  Are there higher, spiritual truths to be learned from this event in the Bible? Yes, of course there are.  But my intent was to try and get James to start paying attention to what is said in the entirety of the historical narrative, not just in that one passage that he quoted at the outset of the thread.  For instance, Moses told the people to purify themselves and their captives outside the gate.  When we understand that purification does not entail rape and sexual gratification, at least in the sphere of God's law to the Israelites, we can already answer James’s questioning of whether the virgins were raped or not.  There's no need in my mind to get into spiritual truths yet until questions like this are answered from a historical and straightforward Scriptural way.

And obviously from his response, it helped.  He is now going back to the Scriptures to study more for himself.  And that is what is hoped for:  that people will go back to the Scriptures and God will begin to open their eyes to see the deeper hidden spiritual truths, now that they understand what is going on in the literal and historical.

I pray that I have been able to express what I was trying to do in regards to James’s questions clearly and effectively.  If not, please let me know, either in this thread or by PM.  I am very open to constructive criticism and would like to know where others feel my thinking is unscriptural. 

God bless,

Eric

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