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Author Topic: Idols of the heart  (Read 3062 times)

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Jackie Lee

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Idols of the heart
« on: September 10, 2008, 11:43:43 PM »

 Below is Jeremiah 10:1-10:

 "Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. 5 Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good." 6 No one is like you, O LORD; you are great, and your name is mighty in power. 7 Who should not revere you, O King of the nations? This is your due. Among all the wise men of the nations and in all their kingdoms, there is no one like you. 8 They are all senseless and foolish; they are taught by worthless wooden idols. 9 Hammered silver is brought from Tarshish and gold from Uphaz. What the craftsman and goldsmith have made is then dressed in blue and purple-- all made by skilled workers. 10 But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.

Are the above scriptures speaking of tree worshipers worshiping the creations rather than the creator?
Then it also sounds like a christmas tree any help will be appreciated.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Idols of the heart
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2008, 04:32:41 AM »

This may not be help, but I'll type it anyway.

It does kinda sound like christmas trees, but I really don't know of anybody who worships christmas trees.  A spiritual witness to these verses is the admonition that God is Spirit and those that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and Truth.

LOTS of things that aren't 'Spirit and Truth' exist in and around man and man made religion.  All of them spring from the natural (trees) and are dressed up with finery by craftsmen (priests and theologians) as a replacement for the Invisible God and His truth.  A lot of it even exists in us.

I hope you're not afraid of Christmas trees, or even of idols that men actually DO worship, as right there in the verses you quoted are the words "Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good." 6 No one is like you, O LORD; you are great, and your name is mighty in power."

Now...it might harm the TREE to be cut down for adornment and worship, but it doesn't harm somebody who understands that THAT isn't God.

The thrust of these verses I'd summarize this way:  Forget all that stuff and get on with what is real.

 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 04:52:03 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Jackie Lee

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Re: Idols of the heart
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2008, 07:48:14 PM »

Thanks Dave, no I am ok and don't worship trees alive or dead. :)
I have an internet friend that uses this scripture to say no Christmas, she is a Messianic Jew.
I don't do much Christmas anyway but she is trying to get the message to me it is Pagan, along with Easter.


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AK4

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Re: Idols of the heart
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2008, 08:31:31 PM »

IMO i think some people do at least make these christmas trees an idol of the heart, if not worship.  The christmas tree and the whole christmas season has a lot of pagan starts from druidism all the way to babylon gods worship.  Everything about it had some pagan start. Wreaths, mistle toe, etc.  The star on top represented the resurrection of the "mother god" son in babylon. So does easter, halloween, valentines day and so on.

They say the christmas season is about the spirit of Christ or something like that.  Easter the resurrection of Christ. 

You cant talk to some people about some of the paganism in those holidays because "its tradition and all about the family and the spirit of the season."  I tried to talk to my mom about that a year ago and she nearly bit my head off for not wanting to celebrate it.

One interesting thing i noticed, and this is just my opinion, I think satan cleverly reworded the Jewish days hol-Y-days to what is now hol-I-days.  Subtle changes.  Also changing the times and laws.

Dan 7:25  And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws:

I dont know, just my opinion

Anthony
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carol v

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Re: Idols of the heart
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2008, 10:01:42 PM »

Hi Jackie Lee,

I believe that the verse is talking about making idols out of anything -- and there are millions adorning Christmas trees as a ritual every year. I used to be one. Many today have large "cross" collections or a giant cross hanging somewhere -- these should not be idols either.

That could lead me into a conversation about this woman I saw the other day with this giant "bling" cross hanging around her neck...but that's not really the subject here...but it made me a little sick to my stomach! :P

I know there are a lot of people on the forum that have given up all celebration of "religious" holidays as part of coming out of babylon. There is much scriptural support for this other than the one you mention in Jeremiah.

Also, if you will do a search on pagan Christmas traditions or pagan Easter traditions, you will find that everything we've been doing all these years is definitely pagan in origin. This is easy to search out for yourself. Christmas, Easter and even Hanukkah are never celebrated in Scripture. It is NO COINCIDENCE that Christmas and Hanukkah are celebrated at the winter solstice and Easter at the beginning of the planting season.

How does God feel about holidays (holy days):

Isa 1:13  Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. Isa 1:14  Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Yes, God established many of these holidays Himself but as we move from the Law of Moses to the Law of the Spirit, God wants us to grow.

What does Paul tell us about holidays (holy days):

Gal 4:8  Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9  But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Gal 4:10  Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Gal 4:11  I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labor in vain.


Paul just told us that we did these things before we knew God and now that we know God, we should want to get out of these weak, beggarly and bondage traditions. I kind of like The Message version of this verse:

(MSG) Gal 4:9  But now that you know the real God--or rather since God knows you--how can you possibly subject yourselves again to those paper tigers?
Gal 4:10  For that is exactly what you do when you are intimidated into scrupulously observing all the traditions, taboos, and superstitions associated with special days and seasons and years.


I have thrown away every single decoration I had except a Christmas tree skirt and the stocking handmade by my mother when I was a child. They are in a cedar chest. I keep it as a warm memory of my mother who died many years ago.

But I still buy a small gift for my brother's family and my own kids. I also still have my boyfriend and his dad to a special dinner. I celebrated these holidays in full up to a few years ago and I don't feel the need to make some kind of statement with these people. I want them to know that they are still special. Especially Jeff's dad as he just wants to live out the short remainder of his life without a confrontation of any kind. They all know that I am somehow a "different" kind of Christian and believe in the salvation of all. They know I don't attend church. They know I don't own a Santa or an Easter bunny or decorate my house.

But by giving a gift or having a meal, I let them know they are special to me and accessible to talk to, ask questions, whatever -- not in a cult or listening to crazy lunatics on the internet ::)
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Jackie Lee

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Re: Idols of the heart
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2008, 12:49:22 AM »

Thanks Anthony and carol v your posts helped me a tremendous amount.
I also believe anything can be an idol of the heart especially money.
Christmas is all about money not much to do with Jesus birth.
I really am not keen on Christmas it is all about what one is to recieve and most hope the gift will be money at least in my family.
I do give my mother money because she is old and it comes in handy for her.
She always tells me I can't get you anything I say good because I don't want anything.
Christmas can be such a burden when credit cards are run up, usually the people don't even want what they get.
 
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Samarnon

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Re: Idols of the heart
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2008, 06:30:30 AM »

Hi Sis Jackie Lee,

If you've been to our country the Philippines, there are Catholic churches everywhere. What you will find inside are different kinds of statues of their saints that very much fit the description of Jeremiah 10:1-10.  I was not born and raised catholic but of protestant so I've only been inside maybe a couple of times when I was invited say a wedding or a baptism. It really is spooky inside and by just looking at the wooden statues they are life sizes. They adorned it with different colors and people really worship them.

Fiestas here in our country is a very big thing as you will know that our country is a catholic nation and during fiesta, there is a certain saint in a certain town or barangay and the parishioners will go out all the way by adorning their saint extravagantly and then they will parade it to the whole town with matching dances. I donít seem to have a heart watching this kind of circus. I felt pity on them. Anyway, God is not finished with them yet thatís just my assurance.

Grace & peace,
Joy
 
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Jackie Lee

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Re: Idols of the heart
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2008, 03:54:52 AM »

Hi Joy, I have never been to the phillipines but have noticed it to be a beautiful country.

The Catholic church is also beautiful with their stained windows and elaborate decor.
A friend of mine took me on a tour of the Catholic church they do some unusual things like light candles for prayer for members of family or friends.
I visited a Catholic church with her it was strange to say the least, she said if I ever want to visit with her again just let her know.
I just had to tell her it was not my cup of tea.
We still talk but relationship is a bit strained, she sticks with all her traditions of the church and people that believe as she does, which makes sense since they are of like mind.
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Longhorn

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Re: Idols of the heart
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2008, 01:24:38 PM »

Even after I manage to untangle my blob of Christmas lights, half of them dont work and my tree is always leaning and in danger of starting a fire so I dont bother anymore...... Oh Yes.... these physical things were a IDOL of my heart. 

Love in Christ

Longhorn
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AK4

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Re: Idols of the heart
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2008, 02:02:15 PM »

Hey Jackee Lee,

I "stumbled" on this email to Ray

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2759.0.html

I feel a bit strange writing to you but I feel I am in an extreme dilemma spiritually and do not know what to do.  I have been raised in the Christian faith for 33 years and love my Lord Jesus!  My husband also loves the Lord very much.  He is very intelligent with scriptures and God has gifted him in many areas of discernment.  This year he has decided not to celebrate Christmas nor can we have a Christmas tree.  I understand that years ago (thousands of years ago) there was paganism regarding this day.  I understand that December 25th is the appointed birthdays of Zeuss, Ra (sp?), Tamuz, etc.  I would NEVER want to dishonor my Lord and Saviour and yet I am starting to feel a bit in "bondage".  I have never ever viewed my Christmas tree as an "idol" per sei.  I have always viewed it as a memory; one from past and future ones to create with our small children.   Almost 4 years ago, my then 2 year old daughter was diagnosed with brain cancer.  We were told she would not live to see age 3; but praise be to God she is now 6 and in remission!  But memories have become very very special to me; especially since the day they told us of her condition.  I can remember when we were in the hospital, my husband and other two daughters came to see us and I hadn't left that hospital since the day she was put in; almost 6 months.  I can still remember trying to find anything I could; objects of any sort of surprise that when the other two girls came for a visit, they could hunt for the objects....it was the time of Easter.  Every memory counts for me and I feel that by stripping Christmas, memories are being stripped from me as well and that I am being robbed of the opportunity to create more memories of  watching their little faces on Christmas morning, etc., Maybe I'm being selfish. My husband would like to observe Hanukkah.  I am not opposed to that but yet it i s difficult for me to feel like I am changing my whole way of life and culture. I understand that Hanukkah is not a "God appointed" day either but rather more of a "military" national day for Israel.
 
I know Christ was not born on December 25th nor do I view that day as such.  I merely see it as a day to create family memories. My heart is not of pagan origin nor do I view my tree as an "idol".  In your opinion, is it wrong to celebrate Christmas?  Or to have a Christmas Tree?  Isn't what's important not an object but what's in your heart?  I mean to say a tree is an "idol" is a bit ridiculous to me personally; one could view watching TV, listening to the radio or working at a computer as idolatry too. As a society, we certainly giveenough attention to these things. I need a third person opinion here because there is no one for me to talk to.  As the holidays are vastly approaching, I am finding myself getting very depressed and in a state of confusion..    My husband studies a lot under Orthodox Rabbi's.  I have a heart for the Jewish people and love them and the land of Israel very much.  My concern is that perha ps my husband is taking only one point of view. I love him dearly and certainly do not want to dishonor him either.  Could you shed some light on this?? I can respect your honesty.
 
Blessings,
Shannon


Dear Shannon:

Of course everyone says they want the truth and they want it straight until you give it to them. Hopefully, you are different.

Yes, Christimas and all of its accoutrements and paraphania (evergreen tree, orbs, eggs, mistletoe, presents, winter solstice, yule logs, fires, drinking, etc.) are also pagan. But then again virtually all who shun this day with great horror think nothing of having a traditional wedding with the same pagan acoutrements (vale, something old, something new; something borrowed, something blue, rings, rice, honeymoon, bells, wedding cake, etc.).  Then of course at least some of them have their boys in the Boy Scouts with all their pagan accoutrements (left-handed locking little finger hand shake, spirit of scouting, the insignia--fleur-de-lis, etc).  Did I mention that it was the pagans who whore shoes before the Christians.  The Scriptures tell us that we should "Be ye not righteous over much" (Ecc. 7:16). And Paul said: "To the pure all things are pure."  I just don't get all bent out of shape over these things. I personally do not get caught up in the "spirit" of any of these things, but neither do I condemn those who do. These are things that each of us must decide in their own way. However, for what it is worth: Dumping Christmas for Hannukah seems to me like jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

God be with you,

Ray
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Jackie Lee

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Re: Idols of the heart
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2008, 12:08:44 AM »

Thanks Ak4 I had been looking for that email I had read it a long time ago but couldn't find again.
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