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Sirach:
A lot of times we get blamed for taking God's Words out of context. Yesterday evening i saw a short clip on this on sozoproductions where Peter takes two little pieces out of two different psalms to show that Judas had to betray our Lord. I saw it once and didnt study it...but i will soon.

My first question is, in the clip it is sayd that:

The sum of Gods word is truth. It stated that this is comming from Psalm 119-160 and John 17-17.

Now, when i read the KJV, and my Dutch translation, i read no such thing. Can anybody tell me what it is saying in the original Greek ?

My second question concerns a paper i was reading at sozo website, called "case against hell"

I quote:

When shall it come to pass that: “On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine- the best of meats and the finest of wines. On this mountain he will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers all nations; he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove the disgrace of his people from all the earth. The LORD has spoken” (Isaiah 26:6-8).

offcourse i read it myself...but when i also read verses 9 to the end, then it is followed by this:

9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation. 10 For in this mountain shall the hand of the LORD rest, and Moab shall be trodden down under him, even as straw is trodden down for the dunghill.  trodden down under: or, threshed, etc trodden down for...: or, threshed in Madmenah11 And he shall spread forth his hands in the midst of them, as he that swimmeth spreadeth forth his hands to swim: and he shall bring down their pride together with the spoils of their hands. 12 And the fortress of the high fort of thy walls shall he bring down, lay low, and bring to the ground, even to the dust.

My obvious question is..who is MOAB ? There will be a feast for all peoples, but Moab is an exception. Can someone explain this to me ?

This kind of thing is what is bothering me...becos it is not the only time when i read verses, but when i read a bit further, then in many occasions exceptions are being made in the Scripture...like, John 3: 16...and 17

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

People tell me that...whosoever believed in Him should not perish...and therefor the ones who dont believe do perish. Also...the world might be saved...why is the word might in this sentence ? Is that not telling that it might be but it isnt ?

Are these verses properly translated, or do i miss the meaning of them ?

your brother in Christ

Robin

 

carol v:
Lots of questions there Sirach.  One at a time:

The “Sum” of the Scripture

2Pe 1:20  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.

       (CLV) knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture at all is becoming its own    explanation.

(KJV)  Psa 139:17  How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

(CLV) Psa 119:160 The sum of Your word is truth, And all of Your righteous ordinances are eonian."

The CLV is the Concordant Literal Translation -- Psa 119:160 is different in the KJV but as you can see there is other scriptural support because NO SCRIPTURE IS OF IT'S OWN INTERPRETATION ;)

Also always keep in mind --

Mat 18:16  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

You can find lots of scripture on "two to three witnesses" but this Matthew one says it clearly --

AK4:
Remember, the whole bible is a parable.
I believe you have to look at verses like those as you would look at the parables in the NT
IMO i think in first part of those verses  God is (1)either stating His overall plan for mankind (2)or the elect in the age to come
and then the when he comes to exceptions He has to talking about those who will go through the eonian judgement in the age to come.

When you look at alot of the OT verses like this you will see it alot.

This is just my honest opinion and it helps me reconcile what may be a seen as a contradiction to everyone will be saved.

Moag, Gog and Magog and all those others---I have no clue


--- Quote ---A lot of times we get blamed for taking God's Words out of context. Yesterday evening i saw a short clip on this on sozoproductions where Peter takes two little pieces out of two different psalms to show that Judas had to betray our Lord. I saw it once and didnt study it...but i will soon.
--- End quote ---
Ray has wrote about this somewhere on this site.  I cant remember where though

Hope this helps

Anthony

carol v:
Context of Scripture

Paul Did NOT Teach in Context

Paul quotes the Psalms and applies the verse to Christ.

1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The Psalms he is quoting talks of “man”.

Psa 8:4  What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Psa 8:5  For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honor.
Psa 8:6  Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

The OT verse is talking about Israel, yet Matthew uses them of Christ:

Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Mat 2:14  When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
Mat 2:15  And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

And here is one from Peter:

Act 1:16 said, "Men! Brethren! Fulfilled must be the scripture in which the holy spirit said before through the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who becomes the guide of those apprehending Jesus,

Act 1:20 For it is written in the scroll of the Psalms, Let his domicile become desolate, And let no one be dwelling in it, and 'Let his supervision be taken by another.' "

This quote from Peter is not even found that way in Psalms -- it's a combination of lots of different Psalms with David asking God for protection.

Psa 69:25 Let their domicile become desolate; Let no one be dwelling in their tents.

Psa 109:8 May his days come to be few; May his supervision be taken by another.

There are dozens if not more examples of Christ, Paul, and the disciples quoting scripture in pieces from the OT that are "in context" talking about some other subject and using them to illustrate something completely different.

If you want more examples of this, please feel free to pm because there is a whole paper devoted to this.

carol v:
Moab -- Just one of many tribes, such as the Philistines, that oppose God. When you read the OT you will find Moabites and Ammonites and the list goes on...

Anthony is right. The entire Bible is a parable of not only how God will save both the chosen and the called, but also of what happens inside us in our spiritual journey towards righteousness. Moab does not represent some man or people that will not be saved. Moab represents everything in opposition to God which will be trodden down into dust.

Remember that WE are DUST -- our flesh is dust.

You cannot ever understand the Bible as long as you want it to have literal meaning.

And if anyone ever tries to tell you that God's enemies will not be saved, keep this scripture in mind:

Eze 16:55  When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.

Was there ever a greater enemy to God than Sodom? Well, Sodom will be reconciled even before Israel. That's the literal truth for those who want the literal explanation.

But for your own understanding, if you ever have a question about what a certain scripture is telling YOU -- read every single one according to this truth:

Deu 8:3  And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.  

And here is your 2nd witness:

Luk 4:4  And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

The entire scripture is a parable about what is happening inside every person ever born. You are living God's every word. The Moab inside of you is being downtrodden into dust so the Sodom that has now been purified can be returned to it's former estate.

You see how all this is fitting together -- every scripture fits into the context of you. You are David (Israel), you are Goliath (a Philistine), you are Judas, and one day when God's work in you is complete, you will be like Christ.

Andrew Jukes book, The Types of Genesis, is wonderful and includes a long chapter on how the story of the creation is really the story of man going from darkness to light to rest. Revelation is a "prophecy that you must keep" -- it is about you. From Genesis to Revelation, when you read about Moab being downtrodden into dust -- it is you.

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