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[Phil3:10]

To All,
I have doubts all the time. My most frequent doubt is if the Bible is inerrant. I don't doubt GOD or HIS SON but I do doubt anything that man has his hands in.  Our GOD knows there is nothing good in the flesh and I know that HE alone draws fleshly man to HIMSELF. John 6:37 says it all, "All that the FATHER gives ME shall come to ME; and him that comes to ME I will in no wise cast out".
I am much like Dave in Tennessee and I do question many things. However, I think this pleases GOD in that I don't just accept everything but that I do search HIS word and seek HIS HOLY SPIRIT in guiding me to HIS truths.  My greatest peace has come from being released from the bondage of the Church System and just relying on HIM to reveal HIS truths in the still small voice that brings me HIS peace.
GOD has no limits, HE is in everything and HIS perfect will is going to be accomplished in HIS time frame.
I thank Ray Smith and this site for confirming to me that GOD is good, HIS love is real and HE is not the monster the Church System says HE is. Praise HIS HOLY NAME!
Phil3:10

[Akira329]

I have no doubt that Ray is pointing us to the Truth.  What I believe he is doing, by the will of God, is removing the man made traditions from the original Scriptures.  It is the original Scriptures from the men who walked and talked with Jesus Christ that have the Truth, that I have no doubt of. 
Ray is just human like any of us, but God has seen fit to use him to help us to unlock the mystery of the Scripture.  He is only showing what is in the Scriptures, not presenting new revelations.  We can use the knowledge he has provided to continue our own study of the Scriptures, for those chosen by God and given eyes to see.

Col 1:26  the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now made manifest to his saints.
v. 27  To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Kat I agree!
From reading Rays material none of which is a new revelation.
He showed us the scriptures that's all! and God used him well in doing this.
I have NO doubts.
Reading the first time was like a huge weight of doubt lifted, the veil was removed. It was the single greatest feeling I have ever had in my life.
I have plenty questions myself but I don't consider them my doubt in the truth!
I even have my own theories but I keep them to myself till understanding comes in.
Most are done in quickly and vanish away, some I have concerns the topic at the conference.
Thats why I am so excited about this conference!! Ray has dropped to many jewels not to finish the necklace!!

Antaiwan

[Craig]

I have no doubt the original scriptures were inerrant.  What we have now, I have no doubt is in error.  That is why we must study and search and trust God to lead us correctly.

Craig

[indianabob]

Before I started working on my PhD. in Criminology I was studying Physics, Philosophy and Psychology. I have been a professional student for many years. What is funny is that all three of these disciplines depends on accepting certain facts that can never be proved without a doubt.

For me; when I learned that all matter was actually 99% empty space on the subatomic level that blew my mind. However; how would you explain cell phones. Cell phones work because the signals go right through metal, glass, plastic, whatever. Why because everything is 99% empty space.

There is no way in Hell (pun intended) that such a marvelous design could have happened by chance. God had to be responsible, there is no other explanation. Why should people have a problem with God creating everything in 6 days. He could have created everything in 6 nano-seconds if he had wanted too.

Why should we limit God to sending everyone to an imaginary "HELL" simply because they do not believe in him, or have even heard about him? We send people to prison because we do not have the power, knowledge, insight, or patience to "fix" them. God is not limited like we are. God can and will set everything right in the time of his choosing. We can not force God to change his plans simply because we think that we have "Free Will" to make certain decisions and choices.

Just my humble opinion.

Douglas,

Thanks for your message, it fits right in with my history and interest in the physics of creation.
I like your comment outlined in RED above regarding what God can do if he wants to.  I think we will get a broadened perspective from the conference next week as that is the main topic as I understand it.  Please keep me in mind when you are thinking along these lines and send a PM from time to time. 

Thanks, Old Indiana Bob
Formerly having worked at U. of Notre Dame and an amateur multidisciplined, curious investigator of things of the earth.
Now in Culver, Indiana

[Dave in Tenn]

I have no doubt about this:  Lo those many years ago when I was caught up in the church and trying to live 'in the spirit' in the flesh, faith faltered and ultimately failed.  But even when I dabbled in agnosticism, God never left me alone.  When I was at my most sinfulness, God never left me alone.  When I got to the point that ALL I wanted out of God was for Him to leave me alone, He never really did.

I didn't come to B-T searching for the truth.  But maybe this is a good time to share something I never have.  At least 20 years ago I prayed a prayer.  I don't remember exactly what I said, but I was at the end of my rope trying to deal with deep-seated sin in my life that only got worse and worse the more I struggled.  I told God that if He wanted me to be free of this, then He would have to do it.  Unless and until He did, I didn't want any part of any of it.  That was pretty much the last time I prayed, and I hadn't cracked open a Bible more than a few perfunctory times since then.

Surely, and I have NO doubt of this, God prepared me to recieve this truth and the new life it is bringing.  Surely, and I have NO doubt of this, God prepared Ray Smith to be a vessel to pour this truth out not just on me, but many.  Faith leads to faith.  When I read here, and when I read scripture with the 'eyes' that Ray has shown me I must have, faith GROWS instead of flounders.  That's all the evidence I need.

I'm 52 and have had one major heart attack.  I won't live long enough to outgrow Ray Smith.  I praise God for B-T and His incredible sovereignty in preparing Ray, me, and the rest of us for this time.  

[AK4]

To All,
I have doubts all the time. My most frequent doubt is if the Bible is inerrant. I don't doubt GOD or HIS SON but I do doubt anything that man has his hands in.  Our GOD knows there is nothing good in the flesh and I know that HE alone draws fleshly man to HIMSELF. John 6:37 says it all, "All that the FATHER gives ME shall come to ME; and him that comes to ME I will in no wise cast out".
I am much like Dave in Tennessee and I do question many things. However, I think this pleases GOD in that I don't just accept everything but that I do search HIS word and seek HIS HOLY SPIRIT in guiding me to HIS truths.  My greatest peace has come from being released from the bondage of the Church System and just relying on HIM to reveal HIS truths in the still small voice that brings me HIS peace.
GOD has no limits, HE is in everything and HIS perfect will is going to be accomplished in HIS time frame.
I thank Ray Smith and this site for confirming to me that GOD is good, HIS love is real and HE is not the monster the Church System says HE is. Praise HIS HOLY NAME!
Phil3:10

I had tried to post something like that earlier, but my boss was coming so... click.  Anyway i dont believe i doubt, i think i question (maybe just semantics here).  A couple of days ago "out of the blue" i couldnt figure out the difference between responsiblity and blame.  It was eating me up because i already knew for certainty God was responsible for everything and for some reason i couldnt differentiate that from blaming God. And from what i was taught along time ago "its wrong to blame God" I looked up the meaning of both words and they are almost synonyms.  I started to question if what was revealed to me from God through Ray if Ray was correct in his interpretations.  This was beginning to become earth shattering to me. 

I knew Ray was correct and i knew something i was thinking was wrong. So i prayed and then stopped thinking about it, then the next time it came to my head i prayed and then stopped thinking about it.  Then last nite "out of the blue", while deep into a video game (yeah im 30 and still playing them) God stopped me and led to the book of Job.  Before this happened i kept remembering from what i was taught before while in babylon "Job didnt sin because he didnt blame God for what happened to him".  So i found that verse and what did it say "Job did not sin by charging God for wrong doing". 

What an eye opener!!!  I felt so relieved so happy and i got that feeling you just cant describe when a Truth is revealed to you.  For me It was saying we can say God is responsible (blaming so harsh of word) for what happens in this world, but who are we to tell God that He is wrong for doing whatever He does.  Now theres a big difference.

Anyway like what i got at the bottom of my all my posts i dont think (at least for me) i doubt-- i just might question to get a even deeper meaning and this in the end just strengthens my faith

Anthony

[OBrenda]

Great question,...and the answers reveal great depth to everyone heart...WOW!

I have tried about 4 times to Post a reply and keep losing electrical power...
Each time I get back online and read more responses.
Some replies have answered the question in a narrow and direct way,
and with more replies, layers are added, the subject gets bigger and more profound.

You know some just can't get all their Brilliance out in a few sentences.  
Let us be Blessed with the Grace, to allow others to cross our "T''s and dot our "i'"s.

Kind of like making an Itialian Spagehetti Sauce...
Adding Garlic, Bitter Herbs, Meat, Sweet Herbs, Onions, Peppers and maybe just a dash of brown sugar...
you can throw in the mushrooms,[ I don't like them myself ]

What I'm trying to say is....what a beautiful Feast!

[rk12201960]

nope.
Not at all.

Randy
 

[Robin]

Kevin

I believe it is nothing short of a miracle that any of us are able to believe what we believe. Everything in this world opposes the truth.

God spent 5 years teaching me that there is no free will and taking me out of the church teachings. This is before I found Ray. I was full of doubt and fear, but God just kept dragging me. I thought I was crazy. How could this be truth when the whole huge church believes otherwise? My pastor told me my beliefs would only lead me to despair. God showed me the "beast" before I found Ray.

At that point I could not prove hell wrong. I could not get past the word "eternal" even though I had all the scriptures of all men being saved. It was a contradiction I could not solve. That put me in a greater panic because I knew that God was sovereign and I had no choice in my destiny. I saw the beast and knew I was powerless to save myself. I don't think there is much scarier than seeing you are the beast, seeing that you have no free will or power to change that, and still believing that there is a hell. Having the huge church confirm that I was going to hell and being able to push forward and believe God in spite of all this was only by God's grace.

After learning all this God was completely silent for 10 years. The doubt then was so overpowering that I was holding on by a thread and begging God not to abandon me. I learned that I can't trust myself. I can't trust that I am not deceived. I am only at God's mercy to see me through and keep me from deception. I searched for others. I went to different churches when I heard something on the radio that sounded like what I believe. I searched the internet. It was all useless because one lie and one false truth canceled everything that may have initially resembled truth. I kept hearing the pastors words that my belief would only lead me to despair. That instilled even more doubt, but I knew what I learned was the truth and couldn't let go of it. I thought maybe I committed the unforgivable sin and was doomed.

One day I burst into tears and told God I knew he had a remnant spread out all over this world. I was on my knees praying and asking if there was a teacher anywhere in this world that God would lead me to him. If there were others anywhere in this world please let me find just one other person. I did have my brother, but I wanted to find the body of Christ.

2 weeks later I was looking for a poem to comfort a friend in grief and stumbled onto BT. The first thing that caught my eye was the free will series. I laughed and cried and couldn't find one lie. Not one in around 120 pages. I was looking for a lie expecting to just walk away as I've done so many times. I could not walk away.

When I read the hell series I was very cautious. At first the only thing that kept me reading was the fact that there was no lie in the free will series. Then I read the explanation of the word "eternal". There is was. The answer to what I saw as a contradiction. The answer that allowed me to finally know that there is no hell. It was the only thing keeping me from believing that all would be saved.

Rays teaching about who Christ is and what the Holy Spirit is was the hardest to accept. I kept reading and studying until I understood it and was able to believe it after much prayer. I was actually physically ill for 2 weeks trying to work through it.

It was a lot to take in. First there was the shock that I finally found others. Then the new truths that I absorbed as fast I could. I was so thirsty and hungry I was like a starving person eating for the first time in 10 years.

I can see how it can appear that some of the wording in posts can seem like a cult, but you have to remember that as far as we know Ray is the only one we've found who is teaching the truth that we believe in. That alone has the appearance of a cult to those who don't believe the same truths. I can imagine that there was the same appearance in the days of the disciples when they were going from town to town teaching the new truths they learned. I'm sure the new believers and followers used the same words about Peter and Paul. I'm sure the unbelievers and religious leaders in that day also believed they were a cult.

John 10:4-6

4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

[EKnight]

When it comes to the "Hell" doctrine I have no doubts that it does not exist.  And when it comes to my family, I rejoice in that knowledge but not when I hear of the mother that microwaved her baby or the soldiers in Congo who are raping women for all to see from the ages of 3 to 80. It is then that I wish there was a fiery hell.  I'm sorry but I just can't help myself.

Eileen

[Linny]

I have no doubt that God exists or that Jesus is the only way to Him. I have no doubt I am saved and would be even if I was wrong about all of the BT stuff. (which I am not  )I came to this information through a L-O-N-G process over many years that has God all over it so I can honestly say that the big ideals in BT about all saved, no hell, no trinity, no free will, errant translations of God's inerrant Word, etc. I really don't have any doubts about.

But, as for the details and smaller, less important stuff, I have been proven wrong so many times in my adult life that I have a "policy" to never cling too tightly to my new revelations! 
I am always open to new thoughts and new ideas.

Blessings, Lin

[Ricky]

Hi, as for me I have more questions than you could shake a Bible at, no hell, is no problem for me. Predestined everything, major problem. How can God answer prayers if He already made life and we are now playing it out. It would mean that He could not change anything, it has to be played out the way He already made it. ?? I hope someone can answer this one, cos I have been here for a little while now and have learnt to keep my mouth shut cos people on the form can misunderstand what you type, and take it the wrong way. I have already gone through this here, now I shall be very careful. Craig says to trust God ? how do you do that if you have no free will. How can you love God without free will. Like I said more questions than you can shake a bible at. Please don't get mad at me. I am one guy that refuses to be fooled again.   Bless you all       Ricky

[Kat]

Hi Ricky,

Maybe this email will be of some help to you.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2354.0.html -----

You are not understanding this subject and the principle behind it. You ask: "Is it man making the choices or is it God's predestination of things?"  It is BOTH.  Listen:  God is SOVEREIGN! Man therefore has NO FREE WILL OR NO FREE CHOICE.  That's it. That's all there is to it.  That IS the principle. That IS the Truth.  That IS what the Bible teaches.  It is not a contradiction to say that "Man makes his own choices."  You and millions of other just think it is a contradiction to say man makes his own choices if indeed God is sovereign and God is behind all in His creation.  It is not a contradiction. It only sounds like a contradiction for those who do not believe that "God is Sovereign, and Man has no free will."

I hardly know what else to tell you.  God made man's heart. Man did not make his own heart, or his body, or his mind, or his brain, or his will, or his hopes and dreams.  They are all PREDESTINATED by the foreknowledge of God.  So then we don't make choices, right?  NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO....WE DO MAKE CHOICES.  It's just that they are CAUSED by things we can't always see.  Sometimes we can see what makes our choices and some times we can't, but either way THEY ARE CAUSED.  And God, not us, already knows in advance the outcome of all of those caused choices. How does He do that?  He is very smart (has over a 150 IQ), plus HE IS SOVEREIGN, ALL WISE, AND ALL POWERFUL.....and don't forget LOVE.

So, does God FORCE EVIL MEN TO RAPE LITTLE GIRLS?  Well, does He?  Does God being Sovereign prove that God forces evil men to rape little girls?  That's what evil theologians deduce from the truth of no free will.  They turn the Sovereignty of God into one of the biggest evils in the universe. If God is Sovereign, then God must be EVIL, because there is so much evil in the world, and God is in control of all things, right?  Wrong, wrong, wrong!  Man makes all his own choices. Just because they are CAUSED does not mean that he does not make them.  He is, in fact, CAUSED TO MAKE HIS CHOICES. But God does not directly do this. He is responsible, but He does not directly cause those choices. Things like the Devil do such things.  And who created the Devil?  That's right, that One Who is Sovereign and in charge of all things.  Evil men like raping just like evil theologians like stealing widow's social security money.  God doesn't make them do it--THEY LIKE TO DO IT.  They volunteer with little outside influence.  God made humanity this way. He created them spiritually weak.  Eve couldn't help but sin.  God has a good purpose and God will straighten it all out in the end.

I guess I could just keep writing and writing and writing and one day someone will say................OHHHHHH, now I get it.  Maybe today is your day. I'm pulling for ya!!!

God be with you,

Ray

[Decky]

I do admit that I have doubts. I keep thinking, "I was so certain that I had the truth when I was teaching and believing in eternal torment and all the other doctrines of the church...what makes me so certain I have the truth NOW?"

Sometimes I feel that it's just not worth all the hassle struggling to try to make it in the 1st resurrection, because I keep on falling, keep on feeling like God is disappointed in me, continue to experience His cold silence during times when I need Him most, continue to literally not have one single prayer answered during the past several years of my life. I figure that God knows already who His elect are. Why keep busting my butt and crying and pleading and trying to endure, when all that may be for nought, and I may very well not BE chosen? At one time, making the 1st resurrection was such a big deal to me, and perhaps it still is, but all this uncertainty really puts a damper in it, almost to where I want to throw up my hands and say, "screw it...I'll just go through the lake of fire. It'll be painful, but at least I'll eventually be saved."

Pray for me please! 

[Ricky]

Hi Decky, Kat, Decky I am in that very same boat with you, It just seems like God has played one heck of a false, mindtwisting bad joke illusuion on man that changes all the time and has no end to it. Maybe I just throw in the towel and swim that lake with you. Sorry Kat no help, I need the question answered please, How is it possible to HONESTLY love God from the Heart without free will, or is that just a choice.     Ricky

[Jackie Lee]

I really don't expect to be in the first resurrection, however I do want to endure as little pain as possible so I struggle forward hoping to have few stripes.
If I make the first resurrection well then great.
I know what ever I will be ok.
I don't want to go out and sin more, my desire is to sin less.
Our desire is to be more pleasing to God.

[Dave in Tenn]

Hi Decky.  I have prayed for you and will again.

If you haven't already (even if you have) listen to Ray's sermon on Can We lose God's Spirit and Aeonian life.  I think there's a jewel in there just for you.  I know it was there for me.  If you don't find it, we'll talk again.

[Kat]

Hi Ricky,

I need the question answered please, How is it possible to HONESTLY love God from the Heart without free will, or is that just a choice.

Here is a section from the transcript 'Free Will is an Oxymoron.'

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=5154.0 ---------

Eph 2:3  “Among whom also we all (how many?  ALL - including the great apostle Paul) had our conversation (behavior-conduct) in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were BY NATURE the children of wrath, even as others.”

Excuse me, but what happened to everybody's free will in all this?  By nature we’re
“the children of wrath.”  But supposedly only if love comes from this free will, which by nature….is wrath.  How is that good?  If you love somebody through free will, that means you loved them for no reason at all.  Isn’t it better to love somebody for a reason?  Isn’t it better that we love God for reasons, that we have reasons for loving Him?  Guess what those reasons are?  They are CAUSES!  But there isn’t any causes in ‘free,’ so it does away with the free will concept completely and totally. 

Jer 13:23  Can the Ethiopian change his skin, (no) or the leopard its spots? (no)
--------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe this email will help too.

http://bible-truths.com/email18.htm ---------------------------

Hundreds of totally deceived and spiritually blind Christians have told me that: "God does not want robots to love Him-- He desires people to love Him by their OWN FREE WILL." Oh really? And can the carnal mind indeed love God by its own nature; its own heart; its own desires? NO IT CAN'T! And so the very thing that Christians demand as necessary for our love for God to be genuine, is the very thing that totally disqualifies it from being genuine. The natural mind is totally incapable of  loving God:

"For the carnal mind is enmity [deep-seated HATRED] AGAINST GOD..." (Rom. 8:7).

It all starts with God, not with us: 

"We love Him [God] because He FIRST LOVED US"  (I John 4:19).

God created mankind spiritually WEAK--subject to the lusts and sins of his own heart, so that man will learn that he CANNOT love God first; he cannot obey spiritual laws and commandments; he cannot please God; he cannot accomplish anything of lasting value through his wicked and deceitful heart. (Jer. 17:9). And therefore God's ways will justify His means. The rewards and the blessings are not even to be compared with the glory that God is creating in the human race (Rom. 8:18).

And so here is the answer to your question:

BEFORE spiritual conversion man FALSELY THINKS that he has free will and is for all intent and purpose a god unto himself.

AFTER spiritual conversion man will be eternally thankful that God never gave his such a foolish concept as "free will," or he would never ever realize the marvelous highest of power and glory that God has in mind for him.

And presently, you and some few others, are in between these two extremes of human understanding. I will pray for God to grant to you "spirit of wisdom" so that you will comprehend and apprehend the marvelous and mysterious working of our God.

God be with you,

Ray

[Dave in Tenn]

"How is it possible to HONESTLY love God from the Heart without free will, or is that just a choice.     Ricky"

You might turn the question around and ask 'how is it possible to honestly love God with free will.'  The carnal mind is enmity with God.  It's not natural for us to love God.  Nobody can know God enough to love Him except He drags them to that.  Once He does, we find 'cause' to love God.  It's His Grace AND His faith that allows us to know Him at all.  

You accept, I'm assuming, that it's God who does the chosing, the calling, and the saving.  It's not your will that does that, free or otherwise.  We are to continue in the way we began.  

You accept, I'm assuming, that the scripture gives many clear statements of the sovereignty of God over the will of man.  There are many, many examples from Pharoah to Judas to Paul of how God limits our choices to the one He knows we will make.  I've had a hard time, even with this understanding, putting myself into 'fellowship' with these examples, yet there they are.  As they are, so am I.

We can see the hand of God working in the past--even our own pasts--to bring things to the point they are now.  We can at least imagine being able to fathom that God made us our sex, our race, our nationality, our heredity, our afflictions and diseases, our talents, our intelligence and are able to give thanks for all of it, even if some of it has caused us problems and all of it limits our choices.  Yet, we sometimes cannot accept that God continues to determine things through our actions, the actions of others, into the situations in which we find ourselves in this life...and that He will continue this until His purpose for making us is fulfilled.

It was enough at first for me to 'accept' this without much understanding.  There are two practical things that have grown my understanding.  One is a small statememnt made by Ray in an audio that encouraged us to 'Pray like it all depended on God, and live like it all depended on us'.  That's a stop-gap, but it gave me considerable insight in how a person is supposed to live with this knowledge.  The second has been this forum and mostly Ray himself where I see people believing the scripture concerning the will of God ACTIVE by choice, volunteering to get smaller so that He may grow larger.

I'm not through struggling either.  And there are others still trying to come to understanding.  One day we may figure out that our puny will cannot thwart the purpose of God and that we are not in control of even our little part of the universe.  

[aqrinc]

GOD ALWAYS ANSWER'S our PRAYER'S; HE Does Not Always Give us What (we ask for). HE ALWAYS GIVE'S us (What IS RIGHT).

Geo.