> General Discussions
Does anyone have doubts?
faith2faith:
its best to stay in Gods word and read for our selves what Gods word says.
And i wouldn't advise anyone to follow ray, as his teachings are just
Guide lines for us to study, we as individuals are accountable for our fellowship
with God in his word, and ray is accountable for teaching them.
John 14:26). But the comforter (counselor/Helper/Intercessor/advocate
Strenghtener/Standby). the Holy Spirit, Whom the father
Will send in My name, He will teach you all things. And He
will cause you to recall everything i have told you.
so as for doubts or anything that anyone maybe going through, Stay in Prayer
Stay in the Word and Stay in Gods Love. :)
RSI:
--- Quote from: legoman on September 11, 2008, 09:35:28 PM ---Does anyone ever have doubts that what we have learned is really the truth?
--- End quote ---
I have no doubt that we have learned the real truth for the most part, the vast majority of Ray's teaching.
There is a feeling I get though when reading BT and the forum that I don't agree with and that is that all church goers have to come out of the church or they couldn't be a chosen one. I think there are church people who are chosen but just haven't had their ears and eyes opened yet and may never in this life. There were a few people still in the Seven Churches that the Spirit did not upbraid.
I think it is just amazing the way God has the whole, everything, planned out before the foundation of the world.
I don't know if I'll be part of the first fruits or not but I'm not gonna worry about it, just keep on plugging away, trying to love, trying to obey.
Something that I would like to see go away is the use of "chosen". Somehow it is just awkard to talk to someone about "the called and chosen" as in "He may call you but not choose you" that is so tacky. How about "the acceptable ones or the preferred or favorite ones". Somehow that doesn't sound as conceited or haughty. Ok, just my little quirk :P
Love you all, Ray I
faith2faith:
oh I couldn't agree with you more on that sudject about being called then chosen, the bible clearly says
that we were chosen before the foundations of the world. (Eph 1:4,5).
their are other scriptures that correspond to that 1 above in my post ( who are the chosen??).
Cheers :)
legoman:
Great posts everyone, it helps to see everyone's experiences and know you are not the only one going through these trials. Kat, special thanks to you for digging up those different emails of Ray's. They are very helpful for review.
The great thing about Ray's writings is it is all clearly backed up with scripture in a logical consistent way. If people applied Ray's reasoning and scriptural references to mainstream Christianity, they would quickly see the error of their ways. Ray untangles the mess we've all been taught, but the untangling takes a while.
I think for me this is how my doubts come in. I'm a pretty obsessive compulsive logical kind of guy. If I figured this out, why doesn't everyone else figure it out? So my doubt kicks in, maybe its not everyone else that's wrong, but its me that's wrong. Then I reread Ray's stuff and the logic kicks in again and I realize most everyone else is wrong :)
But like I said, it is a mountain of peer pressure we are up against. It can be lonely.
It really is about digging deep. I think Samson mentioned this in another thread. To really understand this stuff, you have to dig deep. Digging deep is natural for my obsessive compulsive nature. But not everyone is like that.
The free will stuff is tricky. I think I get it figured out, but it is tough. Even with the emails you posted Kat, I can still see that it is easy to "blame" God for everything if you are not careful. Of course "blame" is the wrong word because that presupposes that God did something wrong. Every part of God's plan is necessary, and is there for a reason. Even the bad stuff.
Ricky, I will take a crack at your predestination/prayer question.
God has perfect foreknowledge, so he would know when you would be in need and praying. In fact he planned for that to happen. He set up the causes that led to you praying. And he also has a response planned for the prayer - either positive or negative.
But from your perspective, you are living "in the now" and pray for something. God planned that you would, and you do it without even realizing that God caused you to pray.
Its all part of his plan - He did this so we would be humbled and learn to trust and depend in God.
TTYL
Kevin
Linny:
I think the free will thing is so hard for us to grasp because it has been forever spoken about. Not only do you hear it in the churches but even the secular world talks about our free will.
But to me, free will and a Sovereign-All Knowing God cannot go together logically.
This is an analogy that came to me one day driving home thinking about free will.
If I told you that I, as a Mom, ran my home in a pretty orderly fashion with children, who although not perfect, obeyed me most of the time without much fuss. That my kids, even if needing to be disciplined at times, would go to bed when I said, make their beds, do their chores as I expected. You probably could accept that.
But then if I also told you that my kids were allowed to do ANYTHING they wanted, ANYTIME they wanted, would you still think my home had order?
Of course not. You can't have it both ways. Either someone is in charge with final say in the outcome, or there is chaos.
My point is just that if God truly knows everything and truly has plans for the world that cannot be thwarted, then it is impossible for me to be able to do whatever I wish.
I heard a preacher the other day on the radio teaching about how we can get outside of God's Will and then we knock others out of His will, etc. What a crock! God's Will for me and for the outcome of the world He created will not be changed by a pion like me! :-[
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