> General Discussions
2 ressurections?
Kat:
Hi Eileen,
The no. 3 article in the LOF series 'Judgment by Fire Must Begin at the House of God' has so much about the judgments, here is a section.
http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html -----------------------
but who is ultimately responsible for ALL things, including the tribulations and persecutions of believers? It is, of course, GOD
"Who works ALL things after the counsel of His Own WILL" (Eph. 1:11).
"So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in ALL YOUR PERSECUTIONS AND TRIBULATIONS that ye endure; Which is a manifest token [display] of [of WHAT?] ... OF the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT [Gk: ‘just judging’] OF GOD!"
And for what grand purpose?
"... that ye may be counted WORTHY OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD, for which ye also SUFFER" (2 Thes. 1:4-5).
Just how much are we expected to give up and suffer for Christ in order to be worthy?
"And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than Me is NOT WORTHY of Me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is NOT WORTHY of Me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after Me, IS NOT WORTHY OF ME" (Matt. 10:36-38).
What does God consider a "reasonable" sacrifice to become members of the Family and Kingdom of God?
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your BODIES A LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service" (Rom. 12:1).
Make no mistake about it; if you will follow Jesus Christ, you will experience many of the hardships spoken of in these Scriptures. I am not saying that it is necessary to teach youngsters in Sunday School these deeper truths of God, but if we adults are to ever go on to maturity in Christ, it’s time to get our heads out of the sand!
The good news is that if we have a volunteering heart and accept the judgments of God on our lives now, we will be sure to avoid the harsher judgment on the whole world reserved for "that day."
"For if we would JUDGE [Gk: diakrino=THROUGH JUDGE, separate thoroughly, to withdraw, discern, judge] OURSELVES [members of the called-out House of God], we should not be judged [Gk: krino=judge, set right, decide, to try, condemn, punish]. But when we are judged [the same Greek word krino as used above with reference to judging the wicked world] we are CHASTENED of the Lord, that we should not be condemned [Gk: katakrino, an adverse sentence] with the world" (I Cor. 11:32).
Pay close attention to the three Greek words, diakrino, krino, and katakrino, used in this verse.
There is so much contained in this verse. There is a judgment now on God’s saints. We are judged by being "chastened of the Lord." What does that mean? "Chastened" is from the Greek word paideuo and here is what it means: "to train up a child, i.e. educate, or (by impl.) discipline (by punishment): -- chasten (-ise), instruct, learn, teach" (Strong’s Greek Dictionary p. 54).
Are you following this amazing use of words? You will now learn a marvelous truth of Scripture that is not being taught in any theological seminary that I am aware of anywhere in the whole world.
We are "judged" by God, and the vehicle that God uses to do this judging is "chastening." In other words, we are "judged" by God by being "trained up" like a child, by being "educated," by "discipline" involving "punishment," "instructed," by which we "learn," and all these "teach" us WHAT WE SHOULD BE.
There is no doubt that some of this chastening can be harsh, sorrowful, and painful. Much of it is not very pleasant and God admits as much to us. And it is not possible for one single son of God to avoid this chastisement!
------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
indianabob:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on September 15, 2008, 06:22:58 PM ---From what i can read and understand, their is only one ressurection. It's just that their are two groups of people in this ressurection. The elect and the world. Depending on which group you fall into, dictates how you will see THAT ONE ressureciton. A ressurection of life or a ressurection of judgement. The elect as mentioned above, are being judged now, and will not be harmed by the second death [the lake of fire] because they become the lake of fire as is our God, a consuming fire.
God bless,
Alex
= = = =
Kathy,
Well said and helpful.
Now, what about Alex's point that there is only ONE resurrection period?
It appears that Alex believes that all will be resurrected together, some to life and some to judgment.
Alex: Do I misread what you meant to convey?
Please add more detail regarding the timing of the resurrections, if we know, and the purpose of having them together or separate by some time period for the reason perhaps of dealing with those who live over into the Kingdom age.
I don't wish to speculate too much, but I think this topic bears a little more discussion to achieve some clarity.
Kindly, Bob
--- End quote ---
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: indianabob on September 15, 2008, 10:17:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on September 15, 2008, 06:22:58 PM ---From what i can read and understand, their is only one ressurection. It's just that their are two groups of people in this ressurection. The elect and the world. Depending on which group you fall into, dictates how you will see THAT ONE ressureciton. A ressurection of life or a ressurection of judgement. The elect as mentioned above, are being judged now, and will not be harmed by the second death [the lake of fire] because they become the lake of fire as is our God, a consuming fire.
God bless,
Alex
= = = =
Kathy,
Well said and helpful.
Now, what about Alex's point that there is only ONE resurrection period?
It appears that Alex believes that all will be resurrected together, some to life and some to judgment.
Alex: Do I misread what you meant to convey?
Please add more detail regarding the timing of the resurrections, if we know, and the purpose of having them together or separate by some time period for the reason perhaps of dealing with those who live over into the Kingdom age.
I don't wish to speculate too much, but I think this topic bears a little more discussion to achieve some clarity.
Kindly, Bob
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
The reason i believe it is one ressurection, with two groups is merely from what i've been able to understand.
John 5:28-29 "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
Notice this passage states that All the dead hear his voice. Which we know is like the sounding of a trumpet, and the dead rise. How many? Half? Well, it says All the dead hear his voice so i'm ASSUMING it's ALL THE DEAD who rise. So it sounds like one ressurection for all. I think the enfaces is on the fact that their are two groups.
Here are a few more versus in John that talk about THE ressurection.
John 11:24 "Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
John 11:25 "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"
I will admit, i don't understand why we are given "the FIRST resurrection" in revalation. The first? As opposed to what? The second? That's what i don't understand. Why say the FIRST if their is only ONE? Seems rather redundant. However perhaps i am not seeing something clearly on this. Maybe someone with alittle bit more understanding can clarify or share what they think on this matter.
I know their are two groups for certain. I believe their is one ressurection, i could be wrong because like i stated above, revalation is a bit tricky on that.
God bless,
Alex
AK4:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on September 15, 2008, 10:48:37 PM ---
--- Quote from: indianabob on September 15, 2008, 10:17:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on September 15, 2008, 06:22:58 PM ---From what i can read and understand, their is only one ressurection. It's just that their are two groups of people in this ressurection. The elect and the world. Depending on which group you fall into, dictates how you will see THAT ONE ressureciton. A ressurection of life or a ressurection of judgement. The elect as mentioned above, are being judged now, and will not be harmed by the second death [the lake of fire] because they become the lake of fire as is our God, a consuming fire.
God bless,
Alex
= = = =
Kathy,
Well said and helpful.
Now, what about Alex's point that there is only ONE resurrection period?
It appears that Alex believes that all will be resurrected together, some to life and some to judgment.
Alex: Do I misread what you meant to convey?
Please add more detail regarding the timing of the resurrections, if we know, and the purpose of having them together or separate by some time period for the reason perhaps of dealing with those who live over into the Kingdom age.
I don't wish to speculate too much, but I think this topic bears a little more discussion to achieve some clarity.
Kindly, Bob
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
The reason i believe it is one ressurection, with two groups is merely from what i've been able to understand.
John 5:28-29 "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
Notice this passage states that All the dead hear his voice. Which we know is like the sounding of a trumpet, and the dead rise. How many? Half? Well, it says All the dead hear his voice so i'm ASSUMING it's ALL THE DEAD who rise. So it sounds like one ressurection for all. I think the enfaces is on the fact that their are two groups.
Here are a few more versus in John that talk about THE ressurection.
John 11:24 "Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
John 11:25 "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"
I will admit, i don't understand why we are given "the FIRST resurrection" in revalation. The first? As opposed to what? The second? That's what i don't understand. Why say the FIRST if their is only ONE? Seems rather redundant. However perhaps i am not seeing something clearly on this. Maybe someone with alittle bit more understanding can clarify or share what they think on this matter.
I know their are two groups for certain. I believe their is one ressurection, i could be wrong because like i stated above, revalation is a bit tricky on that.
God bless,
Alex
--- End quote ---
I believe the same thing, but i am trying to find scripturally that the word resurrection might have another meaning...
In Rev. could it be a rise to the state of mind in heaven for those that are elected? While the others arent yet?
Those that have been resurrection from the dead (spiritually) out of babylon?
Im just thinking out loud right now without thinking. I dont know
Anthony
hillsbororiver:
An interesting topic.....
I tend to lean toward at least two resurrections, reasons being the testimony of the harvests and feasts, are they only speaking of crops and meals or is there a spiritual significance regarding the salvation of man hidden in within?
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
What about those who are not His elect at His return?
Job 33:29 Lo, all these things worketh God oftentimes(6471,7969) with man,
Job 33:30 To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living.
H6471
פּעמה פּעם
pa‛am pa‛ămâh
pah'-am, pah-am-aw'
From H6470; a stroke, literally or figuratively (in various applications): - anvil, corner, foot (-step), going, [hundred-] fold, X now, (this) + once, order, rank, step, + thrice, [often-], second, this, two) time (-s), twice, wheel.
H7969
שׁלשׁה שׁלושׁה שׁלשׁ שׁלושׁ
shâlôsh shâlôsh shelôshâh shelôshâh
(1,2) shaw-loshe', (3,4) shel-o-shaw'
The last two forms being masculine; a primitive number; three; occasionally (ordinal) third, or (multiplicative) thrice: - + fork, + often [-times], third, thir [-teen, -teenth], three, + thrice. Compare H7991.
Peace,
Joe
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