How should I view Pro 24:16 ?

[Richard D]

Pro 24:16 

For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again, but the wicked are overthrown by calamity.


How should one understand this scripture, that is to say, what's meant by falling seven times and rising again?

The wicked are overthrown by calamity. I was learning from Ray's papers we are to go through much tribulation and sufferings. Is not calamity tribulation and suffering?

[Richard D]

I was wondering if the righteous man is representative of a Christian and the wicked is the carnally minded within us being purge out through calamities.   

[OBrenda]

Where o Where's Kat when we need her? 

Don't know but I'm leaning torward what Iris shared...
Think it's talking about two groups sheep & goats but I'm not sure!

Hang on Someone will Help,
Brenda

[Stevernator]

I think Proverbs are straightforward and that it is saying that someone who is righteous is one who returns to walking in God's light after they stumble in sin. They may stumble however they recover and grow and move forward in God's precepts. However, the wicked are overcome by calamity and do not return to God. This is my how I understand it from reading the scripture.

[Richard D]

I believe I was reading were Ray said the whole Bible is one big parable. I see the physical being explain, but I'm interested in the spiritual not the shadow although the shadow helps to understand the spiritual. I believe from what Ray says that the Bible is talking to the many are called but few are chosen and not the world in general.

Remember also I'm a newbie too and when I was reading this scripture I had these thoughts so it's why I raised it here on the forum.

But I think its meaning goes deeper than the surface but only do I think that. It's all I'm saying but wanted to investigate it further than just with myself.

     

[AK4]

Yes Ray wrote on this somewhere.

Fallen seven times is a complete fall.  The number 7 represents complete.  He has fallen seven times and now IMO he will not fall anymore and has learned his lesson and now knows what is expected of him from God.

That last part was speculative, but i do know that the fallen 7 times is a complete fall. 

As for the rest of that verse IMO i think it may be saying that the wicked do not learn from a calamity or a fiery trial, unlike the other man it took him seven falls to learn his lesson

Ray did put this in one of his papers, and i am just trying to go off memory

[Richard D]

I feel or believe and understand our father is talking to us and not to the world in general. This proverb is talking, I believe to us, His children. For the Bible was written for the elect and we being the elect view the shadow to understand the spiritual comparing spiritual with spiritual to understand the things of the spirit.


So in other words I'm not seeing two entities but rather one entity who is a believer who has the righteous of Christ but is still carnally minded and through much calamity or tribulation and suffering is being formed into the image of Christ.

[Robin]

Here it is.

http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html

ALL FALL AWAY

I showed numerous times that all: leave their first love, forsake Jesus, look back, blaspheme, build a spiritual house upon the sand, etc.

It is when John is standing on the sand of the sea that he first sees the wild beast come up out of the sea. Now the questions become: "WHEN did John stand upon the sand in HIS life? WHEN do we stand upon the sand in OUR lives?

Answer: When the spiritual house that we all build falls down with a 'GREAT FALL.' When (notice I did not say, 'IF')...when our spiritual house built upon the spiritual sand falls, WE ARE LEFT STANDING ON THE SAND OF THE SEA. We are only INCHES above the very sea itself—the masses and multitudes of humanity who do not have any knowledge of God AT ALL. It doesn't mean that we have no knowledge of God at all at this quandary in our spiritual lives; it just means that we are no closer to God than all the humanity in the sea. Hence, we are not IN the sea, but rather standing on the SAND of the sea where out spiritual house just FELL!

And since God is not only calling some of us but choosing us also, God begins to teach us anew. And the first thing He begins to show us is the WILD BEAST coming up out of the sea that is the CAUSE of our being overcome and the CAUSE of our spiritual house falling! This wild beast will be reckoned with by all humanity sooner or later.

THERE MUST COME A 'FALLING AWAY' FIRST

I have shown you that John, Paul, Peter, ALL of the apostles, the whole church in Asia, the Seven Churches of Revelation, the entire flock of God's called, all built their houses upon spiritual sand—in other words EVERYONE ever called by God, falls, falls down, falls away.

The Proverb tells us that, "For a just man falls seven times..." That's a COMPLETE fall. But strange as it may seem, this is necessary in God's plan. What happens to a just man after he falls seven times? "...and RISES UP AGAIN" (Prov. 24:16). When he completely falls, he falls from grace. But for those whom God is both calling AND choosing, they will RISE UP AGAIN, for

"Who are you that judges another man's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Yes, he shall be holden up [made to stand up]: for God is able to MAKE HIM STAND" (Rom. 14:4).

We will ALL FALL! But afterwards, God "raises us UP AGAIN," and "makes us STAND." And from that time onward we have this sure promise of which we read before, but I want to read again:

"Now unto Him that is able to KEEP YOU FROM FALLING, and to present you FAULTLESS before the presence of His glory with EXCEEDING JOY, To the Only Wise God Our Saviour, be glory and majesty, and dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen" (Jude 124-25)!

When John's spiritual house built upon the sand fell down, he was left, standing on the sand of the sea by himself alone with God, and it is then and only then, that he is able to see the wild beast that came up out of the sea.

This wild beast is further identified in Rev. 13:14 when we are told this

"...beast, which had the wound [deadly wound, Ver. 3] by the sword, and DID LIVE."

He was wounded to death, but the wound was healed and he again lived. He also has a mark, and a name, and a number. What is this mysterious number that has baffled scholars, theologians, and saints for centuries? I will not give you the complete answer to this at this time, but will only show you that it is the number of mankind—humanity.

[Richard D]

Thanks MG, That answers my question without any doubts at all, I appreciate you taking the time to help me with my understanding. I was out in left field on this one. I also thank all who posted to this thread as well.


P.S....Never trust a newbie with the word of God.....LOL 


                                     In His Love. Richard.

[AK4]

I knew i read it somewhere.  Thanks MG

[Deborah-Leigh]

With reference to the Bible being one giant parable here is an excerpt from How Hard is Getting Saved? http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.0.html

There are 39 parables recorded in the gospels, but there are only ONE!  The Kingdom of God is like this or like that; it's like a farmer, it's like a fisherman, it's like a guy hunting treasure, it's like a woman putting leaven into a meal.  It's all the same parable!  You'll find these theme, running not just through the parables, but running through the whole scriptures. I've just jotted down a handful here:

1. Many are called, few are chosen. Do you know what all the parables are about?  All of them, every one of them. Do you know what they are about?  Many are called, few of chosen. That's what they are all about. Are you getting it?  Every parable is about many called, few chosen.

2. The Pharisee and the Tax Collector (Luke 18). Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and one a tax collector. And the one prayed inside of himself thus, I thank you Lord that I'm not like one of those, dare I say it, this tax collector over here, this sinner, this piece of garbage. I fast twice a week, I tithe all that I have... and this and that.... That's what every parable is about: the Pharisee and the tax collector! This is heavy stuff!

3. The Wise Virgins and the Foolish Virgins.  Same thing.
4. The Lost Sheep and the 99
5. The Old Cloth on the New Cloth
6. The Wheat and the Tares
7. The Carnal Mind and the Mind of Christ
8. Judge Now, Judge Later
9. Physical Israel, Spiritual Israel
10. The First Adam, The Second Adam
11. Heart of Stone, Heart of Flesh
12. First the Shadow, Then the Reality
13. The True Gospel, Another Gospel
14. Image of the Earthly, Image of the Heavenly
15. The Tree of Good and Evil, Two: the Pharisee, the tax collector... You get it? The whole Bible!
16. Cain and Abel The Pharisee and the tax collector!
17. Some was sown in the good soil, and some was sown in the stony places
18. Seed of the Woman, Seed of Satan
19. Joseph and Joseph's brothers
20. Sarah and Hagar
21. The Shadow and The Reality
22. The Law of Sin and Death, and the Law of the Spirit of Christ
23. The Rich Man and Poor Lazarus
24. The Faithful Servant, The Evil Servant
25. The Elder Son, The Prodigal Son
26. The Old Wine Skins, The New Wine Skins
27. The House on the Sand, The House on the Rock.  It's all the same thing.
28. Eonian Chastisement, Eonian Life
29. First the Physical, Then the Spiritual
30. The Old Covenant, The New Covenant
31. The Carnal Law of Moses, The Spiritual Law of God
32. Physical Blessings, Spiritual Blessings
33. Temporary Blessings, Eternal Blessings
34. First Resurrection, Second Resurrection
35. The Image of Man, The Image of God

Are you getting it?  It's all ONE.  God is ONE.  His message is ONE.  You just have to know what that ONE is. THE ONE IS JESUS CHRIST!  That's the ONE.  Because He's the first Adam, and He's the second Adam.  But He's only ONE.

And when we are given the spirit of God, the spirit of Christ, guess what?  We become ONE!

I personally see the above teaching as being one with the following from HELL Part E--HADES & THE SECOND DEATH http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm

Truth is, there is one Scriptural way and one Scriptural way only that any city or any family or any individual is able to come to Jesus Christ in repentance. Here is the only way to repentance: "the goodness of God leads you to repentance" (Rom. 2:4). Are we so totally ignorant of the Word of God so as to believe Tyre and Sidon could have repented on their own? Repentance is the result of "the goodness of GOD," not the goodness of the repenting sinner. And this is why, "no man can come to Me except the Father draw [Gk:drag] him" (John 6:44).

...and this INCLUDES the way for THE ELECT. We ALL come to election via the goodness of God because non of us are good but Him.

Arc

[Heidi]

Great to have people to stand it for Kat    It is awesome to read the things again and be able to understand (only taken a few goes!!)

Love
Heidi