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[WhoAmI]

I would like to challenge everyone, and I do this to myself as well. That we need to be aware that we come from a system of deeply ingrained set of ideas which are included in this society and it's traditions.

Mr 7:13 "making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have HANDED DOWN. And MANY such things you do."

I don't come here to teach or get onto anyone but I have noticed in my own walk that even when I thought I was free of such things that I realized later that MANY such things still are active in my mind and thinking process.

Jer 9:14 "but they have walked according to the dictates of their own hearts and after the Baals, which their fathers taught them."

I know many by the grace of God are escaping this but lets keep pushing on and be totally free. After all we have Prophets of Baal all around us and there is no doubt we take in the poison.

Jer 23:13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria: They prophesied by Baal and caused My people to err."

My encouragement comes from my own learning's of letting go of any sort of   bread that is not the true bread from heaven. I am convinced religion is clothed in a many marvelous displays and we often swallow it unknowingly.


Continue to test the spirits and check the fruits my friends.


Jeff

[frecklegirl417]

Jeff,
   
    Thank you for this thread it really got me thinking. I think you have a point we do need to be aware what is around us at all times. The more I learn the truth the more I see things alot clearly. This post is good and making me do alot of thinking.

                                            With God's love & understanding,
                                                         Pam

[aqrinc]

Yes and thanks for the reminder.

Geo.

[Jackie Lee]

Sometimes I still miss the festive holidays, but so many in my family celebrate for all the wrong reasons.

[Heidi]

Jer 9:14 "but they have walked according to the dictates of their own hearts and after the Baals, which their fathers taught them."

There is food for thought....which their fathers taught them.  I know that I speak for a lot of you as well when I say that it has been one of the hardest things to do....trying to unlearn what you were taught all your life!  But I thank my God in Heaven (in us) that He does give you the ability to unlearn.  Talk about mass brainwashing!!!

Just a thought (not taught) 

Love
Heidi

[dinkc]

I would like to hear what traditions of men others have found still lurking in their lives.  Right before I left church last year I had several long meetings with my pastor.  It was futile.  I was dumbfounded when I realized this man I had so admired clung so tenaciously to his religious traditions regardless of the scriptures. 

What traditions do you all (ye!) find still affecting you?

Dennis in KC

[WhoAmI]

Hi D in KC,

  No one is immune. Many think pastors because of knowledge or school credits or such things makes them more in the know. It doesn't work like that. Way back when I also was shocked to see how many pastors were not really interested in anything but the "church doctrine." Pride along with peer status and social standings can destroy a man quick. I had a pastor actually tell me that he could not tell his congregation the things I was finding out because they could not deal with it. I guess it seem better to him to feed them whatever they only could stomach.

Jeff

[tinknocker]

I would like to hear what traditions of men others have found still lurking in their lives.  Right before I left church last year I had several long meetings with my pastor.  It was futile.  I was dumbfounded when I realized this man I had so admired clung so tenaciously to his religious traditions regardless of the scriptures. 

What traditions do you all (ye!) find still affecting you?

Dennis in KC

Dennis

Although I know that Sunday is not the sabbath I find it hard to give up the tradition of Sunday morning Bible study and worship. It just doesn't seem right to me to go mow the lawn or go about my normal activities at that time .

tinknocker

[Kat]

Something I am finding out is that the truth is learned layer upon layer.  You gain basic understanding of something and then you go on to gain a deeper understanding and then even deeper and it goes on and on this way.  I don't believe we come to a depth that is a perfect understanding of anything... not in this life.

Well I'm thinking now that this is also true for unlearning those wrong behaviors and things that have become ingrained.  Just take anger for instants.  I no longer get angry and blow up at the car that cuts me off.  But it took a good deal longer to not feel anger in my heart when that happened.  I still have much to learn about replacing that anger with love.  So I'm making progress, but I don't think it will ever be fully complete in this life.

So I'm thinking that just like learning is a process, so is unlearning.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Richard D]

I’m thankful and feel very fortunate to of been lead to Rays papers. Those things I had learned from Christendom I believed as truth. And tradition became blended with truth in me.

As I read the writings of Ray and discover each nugget of truth Ray points out with many scriptures to reinforce what he is saying are the man made doctrine being exposed.

Once I believe hell was a real place where God dealt with those of us who reject or not follow his ways. Now I see it was a man made tradition that was exposed through Ray’s teachings.

Where I found the greatest comfort of all was in Rays teaching of our will which is not outside of Gods will. Christendom led me to believe I had to chose God and live accordingly to the Ten Commandments.

Through Ray’s teaching I discover I don’t choose God but rather the opposite, God chooses me. So here is another man made tradition being exposed.

These two truths alone are exposing many false teachings I received as well as showing me much about other religions too.

I had a couple of J.W. visit my home about two weeks back and they were very polite, kind and considerate people. I could see they really cared about people and their final destiny.

I had asked them what happens to a person is they refused to accept God and just live the way they want without God. They had told me that they would not be resurrected. Because I had read Ray’s teaching I knew they were wrong and tried to explain that all people will be eventually save. And no it was to no avail.

As they walk away from me I felt wonderful because I know in my heart God loves them and God will save them. I thought as also as they walked away from me that somehow they were trying to earn salvation by doing works and going door to door. God bless them.

I see where Ray’s teachings are setting me free from the false beliefs that are all around us. I’m starting to understand the religions of the world and to think, I don’t even have a college degree.

I’m sure I still have false beliefs in me and are being exposed as I read Ray’s papers and converse here in this forum. But the two greatest truths I do have the world cannot take from me as they are forever living in my heart.

Thank you for this post as it caused me to reflect how privileged I’am in having what not many have but only the few and that’s the truth. Amen.


                    God bless you all. In His Love. Richard

[tinknocker]

Richard D

Thank you for your post. Each one has taken me back to a time that God gave me eyes to see and ears to hear. I have been rejoicing again with you as I see Him molding you in His likeness. So thank you brother for those flashbacks.

God Bless you as you continue this journey

tinknocker

[cjwood]

when i was sitting at the conference in nashville last weekend God shown His light on a simple but mighty truth for me. ray had been talking about how long it really takes for fruit trees to bear their fruit, with regards to how long it took things to come about on this earth in the creation. i looked in galatians 5 where it speaks of the fruits of the spirit. i then realized that as long as it takes trees to bear good fruit so is it also for us. it takes years of growing and pruning and growing and pruning to walk in the fruit of the spirit. simple but profound for me. especially when you see how churches believe that once you are a believer that you automatically have the fruits of the spirit matured in you.

claudia

[Akira329]

when i was sitting at the conference in nashville last weekend God shown His light on a simple but mighty truth for me. ray had been talking about how long it really takes for fruit trees to bear their fruit, with regards to how long it took things to come about on this earth in the creation. i looked in galatians 5 where it speaks of the fruits of the spirit. i then realized that as long as it takes trees to bear good fruit so is it also for us. it takes years of growing and pruning and growing and pruning to walk in the fruit of the spirit. simple but profound for me. especially when you see how churches believe that once you are a believer that you automatically have the fruits of the spirit matured in you.

claudia

Hey Claudia,
That was awesome, thank you for that!!
I never saw it that way

Antaiwan

[cjwood]

when i was sitting at the conference in nashville last weekend God shown His light on a simple but mighty truth for me. ray had been talking about how long it really takes for fruit trees to bear their fruit, with regards to how long it took things to come about on this earth in the creation. i looked in galatians 5 where it speaks of the fruits of the spirit. i then realized that as long as it takes trees to bear good fruit so is it also for us. it takes years of growing and pruning and growing and pruning to walk in the fruit of the spirit. simple but profound for me. especially when you see how churches believe that once you are a believer that you automatically have the fruits of the spirit matured in you.

claudia

Hey Claudia,
That was awesome, thank you for that!!
I never saw it that way

Antaiwan

hi antaiwan,
i'm happy that God let you see what He showed me.  i especially like what kat(hy) said about learning layer by layer and unlearning layer by layer. that makes such sense. sometimes it is the simplest of thoughts that SHOUT the loudest to me.

love in Him,
claudia

[digitalwise]

I am of Paul.. Apollos...what name shall we choose?

To suggest that all tradition fails is wrong.

Doctrine is derived HISTORICALLY - that is tradition of doctrine that is CORRECTIVE that is of wrong beliefs.

Many post Apostolics since 100AD fought for YOUR faith FAITHFULLY.

No teacher can ever teach the whole counsel of God! It is predicated on historical EVIDENCE and verification.

Learn from that.

It is UP TO EACH of us to "WORK* OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR and TEMBLING"

* Greek: κατεργάζομαι
katergazomai
kat-er-gad'-zom-ahee

Meaning: to work fully, that is, accomplish; by implication to finish, fashion: - cause, do (deed), perform, work (out).

digitaladvisor

[chuckt]

It is UP TO EACH of us to "WORK* OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR and TEMBLING"

hi there, how are you?

people still proof text this verse? what about the reason WHY we do this?

NEXT VERSE:

Phl 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

the interpretations indeed vary on what ""work"" here means, and by no means do i deny active participation.

i recently got to close to my boundry and God  yanked the rug out from under me, quite humbling indeed.

yes may we all not forget WHY we fear and tremble.

Meaning: to work fully, that is, accomplish; by implication to finish, fashion: - cause, do (deed), perform, work (out).

Hbr 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Phl 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:




God bless
chuckt

[digitalwise]

Phl 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

the interpretations indeed vary on what ""work"" here means, and by no means do i deny active participation.

i recently got to close to my boundry and God  yanked the rug out from under me, quite humbling indeed.

yes may we all not forget WHY we fear and tremble.

Work here for me means the knowledge and spiritual insights like the foundational truths of Ray.

You see we HAVE TO WORK OUT at OUR salvation.

God does NOT save anyone [in this life] in a vaccum. Having corrective teaching on what salvation is and being a child of the most high God are BASED on that corrective teaching.

So... we work it out or RATHER a truer word - FUNCTION out YOUR personal salvation. Despite what you want to call WORK OUT our salvation it is predicated on correct understanding of the scriptures.

I'd like to say also - LET NO man JUDGE your salvation [found in Christ alone by HIS grace].

Abasement to get salvation is not a process to have and hold salvation - but the process [even abasement] is there for your own understanding to work it OUT based on scripture and correct understanding - God has already done all for you by sending His Son as the divine subsitute for your sins already. For God so LOVED the WORLD - that He gave His only begotten Son - so that the WORLD might be saved.

The teachings of RAY holds one to a hope of Salvation [for you and ALL] NOT found in traditional teachings of the churches in general.

digitaladvisor

[mharrell08]

God has already done all for you by sending His Son as the divine subsitute for your sins already. For God so LOVED the WORLD - that He gave His only begotten Son - so that the WORLD might be saved.

The teachings of RAY holds one to a hope of Salvation [for you and ALL] NOT found in traditional teachings of the churches in general.

digitaladvisor

Hello Digitaladvisor,

Here is an excerpt from Ray's paper 'You Fools! You Hypocrites! You Snakes!':

HOWEVER, paying the penalty for sin does NOT take the sin out of the sinner, it only pays the penalty. JUDGMENT is what takes the sin out of the sinner, and:

    "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the HOUSE OF GOD…" (I Pet. 4:17).

And contrary to orthodox Christianity, there are two great periods of judgment. The first is with ‘the House of God,’ and the second is in the final judgment of the rest of humanity in the Great White Throne Judgment. Here are the options according to Paul:

    "For if we would [1] judge ourselves, we should not [2] be judged. But when we are [1] judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not [2] be condemned [judged adversely] with the world [in the Great White Throne judgment]" (I Cor. 11:31-32).

Both judgments will bring salvation, but the latter is far more severe.


Christ is to judge the quick and the dead which he did not start in his earthly ministry. The Great White Throne Judgement is the means in which most of humanity will be saved.

From Saved by Grace Thru Faith bible study:

Jesus didn’t need grace for any pardon of anything.  But did He need the influence of God, divine influence on His heart?  Absolutely.  That’s why He could live the way He did, accomplish what He did, never give in to wrong motives and temptations and all that.  He had this divine influence of God on His heart ALL THE TIME.

So then we read Paul says, “But by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace  (divine influence upon the heart) which was bestowed upon me was not found vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I….” (1 Cor 15:10)

“Yet not I”  what?  He said I labored, you know what that means, work.  I’ve ‘worked’ harder than all of them, yet it wasn’t I that works, right.  Notice it wasn’t I that was doing the work, but the grace of God which was with me.  The grace of God, what?  These things are all understood, notice it, I am what I am by His divine influence upon my heart, which He bestowed upon me and it was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all labored: yet not I labored, but the grace of God labored.  That’s what it’s saying, can you see that?  So what is the grace of God doing in Paul’s heart?  It LABORS, it works.

It’s not some ‘thing’ like, ‘well I have the grace of God, that save me.’  They take that word and just tack it on the wall, ‘grace’ there it is, I got it, God said I got to have it and there it is ‘grace.’  It can’t be in a book, it can’t be on the wall, it’s got to be IN YOUR HEART.  What does it do there?  IT LABORS - IT WORKS.

Now let me read that again.

1 Cor 15: 10 “But by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace  (divine influence on the heart) which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all (labored):  yet not I (labored), but the grace of God (labored) which was with me (labored).”

There it is, the grace of God….labors.
In the Lake of Fire series I showed that grace is a verb.  We learn that when we are judged we are chastened of the Lord, 1 Cor 11: 32.  Chastening defines how God judges us.  Now we are about to learn something very profound here, if we can get it.

Titus 2:11  “For the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men,
v. 12  Teaching us….”

What is doing the teaching?  Grace is doing the teaching.  It’s laboring - it’s teachings - it’s the divine influence of God on our heart, it‘s teaching us.  So it’s (verse 12), “TEACHING us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (eon - age);”

So when it says God judges us by chastening us in 1 Cor. 11: 32, the word chasten there is the Greek word ‘paideuō.‘  Then when God says He graces us, by ‘teaching us’ in Titus 2:12, the word teaching is the same word paideuo and it means - to labor, to work, to chasten, to punish, to teach, to educate.  There is like a dozen different words that this means, this ‘teaching.’  That’s what it does, it actually does something.  And the same way what it does for us, it will eventually do for the world.

That is why it is with fear and trembling...because it's all of God. We are HIS workmanship [Eph 2:10]


Hope this helps,

Marques

[digitalwise]

Hi Marques

Referenced very well!

Thanks

digitaladvisor