> General Discussions
Death on a Cross or Upright Pole.
Kat:
Hi Samson,
I had an off topic post some months ago. I had found a site where a doctor explained the crucifixion in excruciating detail. He did show Christ on a post with a cross bar on top. But it is quite interesting if you are not squeamish.
http://www.brainshavings.com/supplements/crucifixion/
mercy, peace and love
Kat
David:
Most historians accept that the instrument used for Roman crucifixion was a cross or T shape. Death was caused usually by asphyxiation due to the arms being outstretched to their limit and nailed in place at the hands or wrists. The legs and feet were kept together, not spread apart as they would have been on an X shape. Once the body weight is supported by the arms outstretched to the sides, the lungs constrict and death occurs by asphyxiation. That is why after victims had hung for some time, usually for the ghoulish entertainment of those taking part and those present and to further humiliate and distress both the victim and their family, the legs would be broken to speed up the process. Once the legs were broken the weight would be fully supported by the outstretched arms, causing rapid asphyxiation.
I really don't see how an upright pole without the T section or cross section could have been used. It doesn't fit any description. In order to use an upright pole, the arms would have most likely have been bound and nailed by their sides, not outstretched. This would suggest that Christ didn't die by crucifixion, but either from the injuries he'd already sustained, or by the guard piercing Him. Well, the Bible says he was already dead when the guard pierced him, so that just leaves his injuries if He was bound and nailed to an upright pole.
I believe He was crucified on a cross or T section. I believe He was so physically weakened by what He had suffered that day, that once crucified His legs didn't have the strength to hold His weight for very long, and so He was already dead before He was pierced by the guard.
Samson:
All good comments,
Thankyou Kat, for that link regarding Crucifiction and the process it entailed.
And David, I agree with you that if it was a Cross, it was most likely T shaped. As mentioned in my previous Post, I have some Historical evidence at my disposal seeming to support that the instrument of his death was probably a T shaped Cross, I didn't present it. Not that it didn't have any value, but I'm somewhat suspect and leery about any evidence in this regard from time periods after the First Century AD or CE. As an example, they found a picture dating from the Second Century of a Donkey nailed to the Cross as a type of mockery of Christians( Roman Graffito with Christ on Cross, Alexamenos Worshipping his God). Even though I think it was T shaped, you rarely if ever see Christ displayed that way on the Cross.
My main emphasis was to show that the Greek and Hebrew Words used in translating our English Word Cross, didn't have that Primary meaning: Stauros-Stake or Pole; Xulon- Timber or Tree, a piece of wood; Crux(Latin)- stake or pole and Ets(Hebrew)- Tree or Timber. I guess they didn't have a Greek Word specifically meaning Cross and Stauros was the only choice for Cross.
Does anyone know of a Greek Word that specifically meant and rendered Cross, please enlighten me.
Kind Regards, Samson.
Patrick:
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/little-evidence-jesus-died-on-a-cross-says-swedish-scholar/19530666
"An extensive study of ancient texts by a Swedish pastor and academic has revealed that Jesus may not have died on a cross, but instead been put to death on another gruesome execution device.
Gunnar Samuelsson -- a theologian at the University of Gothenburg and author of a 400-page thesis on crucifixion in antiquity."
I kind of remembered this being discussed before, so instead of starting a new post, I resurrected this one! ;)
We read in John 20, Christ tells Thomas "Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side:" So, we know Christ had some wounds on his hands from the act, regardless of what shape the instrument was.
I don't think the type of instrument used is of that much importance, I don't wear a cross around my neck anymore! The fact that Christ is raised from the dead and will be the Savior of the world is of much more importance to me.
OK, back to your regularly scheduled studies!
Samson:
--- Quote from: Patrick on June 27, 2010, 12:14:56 PM ---http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/little-evidence-jesus-died-on-a-cross-says-swedish-scholar/19530666
"An extensive study of ancient texts by a Swedish pastor and academic has revealed that Jesus may not have died on a cross, but instead been put to death on another gruesome execution device.
Gunnar Samuelsson -- a theologian at the University of Gothenburg and author of a 400-page thesis on crucifixion in antiquity."
I kind of remembered this being discussed before, so instead of starting a new post, I resurrected this one! ;)
We read in John 20, Christ tells Thomas "Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side:" So, we know Christ had some wounds on his hands from the act, regardless of what shape the instrument was.
I don't think the type of instrument used is of that much importance, I don't wear a cross around my neck anymore! The fact that Christ is raised from the dead and will be the Savior of the world is of much more importance to me.
OK, back to your regularly scheduled studies!
--- End quote ---
Thankyou for your contribution to this thread Patrick, sometimes I like to search through Old General Discussion Threads, it's a good way of learning and gives variety in our Spiritual studies.
Kind Regards, Samson.
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