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[ranrae]

Hello All,

These following questions were meant for Ray but, I guess he did not have time to answer. Could some one please answer them?


1:  When you refer to Jesus, you sometimes call him Jesus Christ. I thought Christ was his title and not his last name. If that were true, Joseph and Mary's last name would be Christ, Right! I  call him Jesus the Christ!
 
2:   You say all men will be saved by Christ. I have a study Bible (NASB) and it says in Matthew Ch. 25 verse 41 that Christ tells the wicked to depart from me into the eternal fire I never new you.  Also in Malachi Ch.4 verse 1 it says, the fire will leave them neither root nor branch.  Doesn't that mean that some people will reject God's love? People use this to validate there so called theories about rejecting Christ.
 
3:   Last. How do I respond to someone when I tell them we are not under the old law of tithing and they say, Oh! I guess we do not have to follow the ten commandments then either do we? I do not know how to respond to that except it is an excuse for ignorance.
 
God Bless you for the truth!
He Lives! The Alpha And The Omega!
Randy W. Thames

[orion77]

Hello Randy,

Have you read all the material on Rays and Mikes sites?  All of your questions will be answered in them.  Lots and lots of material, backed by scripture.

Have your bible out when you read, its worth the time.

I see you too are from Ky.  Welcome, brother.

God bless,

Gary

[ranrae]

Hello Randy,

Have you read all the material on Rays and Mikes sites?  All of your questions will be answered in them.  Lots and lots of material, backed by scripture.

Have your bible out when you read, its worth the time.

I see you too are from Ky.  Welcome, brother.

God bless,

Gary

Yes I have read a lot of it but, I either over looked it or have not found my answers. Please stear me in the right direction.

[ertsky]

i'm thinking it's a shame you have to read my inept answers but here goes

1: When you refer to Jesus, you sometimes call him Jesus Christ. I thought Christ was his title and not his last name. If that were true, Joseph and Mary's last name would be Christ, Right! I call him Jesus the Christ!

rather than just quote shakespeare and say "a Rose by any other name would smell as sweet" i also see that the world itself could not contain the books that might be written about the depth of meaning in Christ.

2: You say all men will be saved by Christ. I have a study Bible (NASB) and it says in Matthew Ch. 25 verse 41 that Christ tells the wicked to depart from me into the eternal fire I never new you. Also in Malachi Ch.4 verse 1 it says, the fire will leave them neither root nor branch. Doesn't that mean that some people will reject God's love? People use this to validate there so called theories about rejecting Christ.

all the verses must harmonise because the sum of the Word is Truth

so a verse that says

Mat 25:41 Then, will he say unto those also, on his left hand: Depart ye from me, accursed ones! Into the age-abiding fire, which hath been prepared for the adversary and his messengers;

must in no way be seen to contradict

1Co 15:22 For, just as, in the Adam, all die, so, also, in the Christ, shall all be made alive.

and of course an explanation follows

1Co 15:23 But, each, in his own rank:—A firstfruit, Christ, after that, they who are the Christ’s, in his presence,
1Co 15:24 Afterwards, the end—whensoever he delivereth up the kingdom unto his God and Father, whensoever he shall bring to nought all rule and all authority and power;
1Co 15:25 For he must needs reign, until he shall put all his enemies under his feet:
1Co 15:26 As a last enemy, death, is to be destroyed;
1Co 15:27 For—He put, all things, in subjection under his feet. But, whensoever it shall be said—all things are in subjection!—it is evident that it means,—Except him who did put into subjection, unto him, the all things—
1Co 15:28 But whensoever have been put into subjection, unto him, the all things, then, the Son himself, also shall be put in subjection unto him who put in subjection, unto him, the all things,—that, God, may be, all things in all.

3: Last. How do I respond to someone when I tell them we are not under the old law of tithing and they say, Oh! I guess we do not have to follow the ten commandments then either do we? I do not know how to respond to that except it is an excuse for ignorance.

i would probably direct them to

***No teaching links allowed***

well good seeking

f

[ranrae]

i'm thinking it's a shame you have to read my inept answers but here goes

1: When you refer to Jesus, you sometimes call him Jesus Christ. I thought Christ was his title and not his last name. If that were true, Joseph and Mary's last name would be Christ, Right! I call him Jesus the Christ!

rather than just quote shakespeare and say "a Rose by any other name would smell as sweet" i also see that the world itself could not contain the books that might be written about the depth of meaning in Christ.

2: You say all men will be saved by Christ. I have a study Bible (NASB) and it says in Matthew Ch. 25 verse 41 that Christ tells the wicked to depart from me into the eternal fire I never new you. Also in Malachi Ch.4 verse 1 it says, the fire will leave them neither root nor branch. Doesn't that mean that some people will reject God's love? People use this to validate there so called theories about rejecting Christ.

all the verses must harmonise because the sum of the Word is Truth

so a verse that says

Mat 25:41 Then, will he say unto those also, on his left hand: Depart ye from me, accursed ones! Into the age-abiding fire, which hath been prepared for the adversary and his messengers;

must in no way be seen to contradict

1Co 15:22 For, just as, in the Adam, all die, so, also, in the Christ, shall all be made alive.

and of course an explanation follows

1Co 15:23 But, each, in his own rank:—A firstfruit, Christ, after that, they who are the Christ’s, in his presence,
1Co 15:24 Afterwards, the end—whensoever he delivereth up the kingdom unto his God and Father, whensoever he shall bring to nought all rule and all authority and power;
1Co 15:25 For he must needs reign, until he shall put all his enemies under his feet:
1Co 15:26 As a last enemy, death, is to be destroyed;
1Co 15:27 For—He put, all things, in subjection under his feet. But, whensoever it shall be said—all things are in subjection!—it is evident that it means,—Except him who did put into subjection, unto him, the all things—
1Co 15:28 But whensoever have been put into subjection, unto him, the all things, then, the Son himself, also shall be put in subjection unto him who put in subjection, unto him, the all things,—that, God, may be, all things in all.

3: Last. How do I respond to someone when I tell them we are not under the old law of tithing and they say, Oh! I guess we do not have to follow the ten commandments then either do we? I do not know how to respond to that except it is an excuse for ignorance.

i would probably direct them to

***No teaching links allowed***

well good seeking

f

Thank You!

[Mickyd]

3:   Last. How do I respond to someone when I tell them we are not under the old law of tithing and they say, Oh! I guess we do not have to follow the ten commandments then either do we? I do not know how to respond to that except it is an excuse for ignorance.

I know that ertsky sent you to another page for this answer, but I thought that I would let Jesus answer himself....

Matt 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
 
Matt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Matt 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Matt 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 
Matt 22:40 On these two commandments HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets.

It's truly a shame that those in the Churches don't see that the law of Christ is the only law to follow.

Matt 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Matt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

[lilitalienboi16]

This is copied from one of my other post, and usualy it serves some good, so ill quote myself again lol. Here is what the "ETERNAL FIRE" is all about.

Here we go, God be with me:


"For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [that’s God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)!

Secondly, Jesus SPOKE ONLY IN PARABLES TO THE CROUDS. He later explained what He was teaching behind closed doors to His disciples.

ALL these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES; and without a parable speak He NOT unto them" (Matt. 13:34).

What Jesus said has extremely deep spiritual meaning, but it is not LITERAL remember that.

"It is the SPIRIT that quickens [gives life]; the FLESH PROFITS NOTHING: the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life" (John 6:63)

Perhaps this will help understand the weeping of gnashing and teeth.

"…cast into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 13:42-43).

What Jesus is talking about is the SECOND DEATH. THE LAKE OF FIRE.

"…Let God be TRUE [Who says He "WILL save ALL MANKIND"], but every man a LIAR [who says He WILL NOT "save ALL MANKIND"]!

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:14-15) and "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death," (Rev. 21:.

So even death and hell[Hades/Shoel] will be cast into this Lake of fire. What is it? It is GOD. God is the FIRE. He will burn out all INPURITIES OUT OF EVERY SINGLE PERSON.

"Beloved, think it NOT STRANGE concerning the FIERY trial which is to try you, as though some STRANGE thing happened unto you" (I Pet. 4:12).

"I indeed baptize you with water unto REPENTANCE: but He that comes after me is mightier than I, Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, AND WITH FIRE" (Matt. 3:11).

"For EVERY ONE [sinner and saint] shall be salted with FIRE" (Mark 9:49).

That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it [your faith] be TRIED IN THE FIRE, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:7).

"Every man’s work [including believers] shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE, and the FIRE shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he has built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE" (I Cor. 3:13-15).

"And of the angels He says, Who makes His angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of FIRE"(Heb. 1:7).

"Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing you shall heap coals of FIRE on his head" (Rom. 12:20).

"But who may abide the day of His coming? And who shall stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s FIRE, and like fullers’ soap" (Malachi 3:2).

Remmember Matt, it said in the FURNACE OF FIRE there will be wailing and gnasshing of teeth. Look who is that Furnace, look at who IS THE FIRE.

"From above has He sent FIRE into my bones…" (Lamentations 1:13).

"Is not My word like as a FIRE? saith the Lord" (Jer. 23:29).

"For in My jealousy and in the FIRE of My wrath have I spoken" (Ezek. 38;19).

"…for all the earth shall be devoured with the FIRE of my jealousy" (Zeph. 3:.

"For our God is a CONSUMING FIRE!"(Heb. 12:29)!

What is this fire, what is this furnace, who is the REFINERS FIRE? WHO PURIFIES WITH BRIMSTONE AND FIRE? WHO REFINES SILVER INTO GOLD? OUR GOD. GOD IS THE CONSUMING FIRE.

And are these non-believers judged differently from believers who are "revealed, tried, salted and baptized IN FIRE?" Just HOW are these non-believers judged in the book of Revelation? How are the "...fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars..." JUDGED? Answer: "... In the lake WHICH BURNS WITH FIRE ..." (Rev. 21:!

I hope you are starting to see a deeper spiritual understanding to what Gods FIRE is really about, and what the lake which burns with FIRE is all about.

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come into the KNOWLEDGE of the truth" (I Tim. 2:4).

Jesus didn't come to save a small group of sinners,that is only a small part of it.

"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent [Gk: apostello, to send out on a mission—commission] TO BE THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD"(I John 4:14)

Maybe God doesn’t want the whole world to be saved?

"Who WILL have all men to be saved" (I Tim. 2:4).

Second witness:

"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, especially [but not exclusively] of those who believe" (I Tim. 4:10).

Doesn’t God will that most of humanity will eternally perish in the lake of fire?

"The Lord…is NOT WILLING that ANY should perish [eternally]…" (I Peter. 3:9).

"And I, if I be lifted up [on the cross] from the earth, will draw ALL MEN UNTO ME" (John 12:32).

But doesn’t the whole world need first to have their sins atoned for?

"And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for our’s only, but also for THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD" (I John 2:2).

Second witness:

"The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and says, Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD" (John 1:29).

Hasn’t the Church proven by their interpretation of the "lake of fire" that it is "impossible" to save all mankind?

"Who then CAN be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE"

But surely everyone will have to acknowledge the RISEN Jesus Christ as their Lord and their Jesus [Jehovah-SAVIOUR] before they can ever be saved, so when does that happen?

"That at the name of Jesus [Jehovah-Saviour—THEIR Saviour] EVERY knee should bow, in heaven, and in earth, and under the earth; and that EVERY tongue should confess [‘That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God has raised Him from the dead, THOU SHALT BE SAVED, Rom. 10:9)] that Jesus Christ [The Christ that God ‘raised from the dead.’ Christ was already ‘RISEN’ when this was written in Phil. 2:11] is Lord [‘Lord’ means ‘master’—acknowledging Christ as Master of their lives], to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10-11).

"To wit that God was in Christ, reconciling THE WORLD unto Himself, NOT imputing [reckoning] THEIR TRESPASSES [SINS] AGAINST THEM" (II Cor. 5:19).


"For THIS is GOOD AND ACCEPTABLE in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have ALL men [What percentage? Five percent? Fifty percent?] … ALL men to be saved..." (I Tim. 2:3-4).

Now you might say to yourself, Well God is just repeating this over and over because He just wishes it would happen, or He just wnats it to happen but Hes not gonna force it too happen. WRONG, HE WILL HAVE IT HAPPEN.

Remember the former things of old: for I am GOD, and there is none else; I am GOD, and there is none like Me. Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel SHALL STAND, and WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE [as in I Tim. 2:4 and everywhere else]:

Calling a ravenous bird from the east [Cyrus?], the man that executes my counsel [just as the king of Assyria] from a far country: yea, I have SPOKEN IT [as in I Tim. 2:4 and everywhere else] I WILL ALSO BRING IT TO PASS [as also in saving all mankind]; I have PURPOSED IT [as also in saving all mankind] I WILL ALSO DO IT" (Isaiah 46:9-11).

"So shall my WORD be that goes forth OUT OF MY MOUTH [just as in I Tim. 2:4 and everywhere else] it shall NOT return into me void, but it SHALL ACCOMPLISH THAT WHICH I PLEASE, and it SHALL PROSPER IN THE THING WHERETO I SENT IT" (Isaiah 55:11).

"God is NOT a man, that He should LIE [do we think God LIES when He says that He WILL save all mankind in I Tim. 2:4?]; neither the son of man, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not DO IT? Or has He spoken [as in I Tim. 2:4 and many other places], and shall He not MAKE IT GOOD?" (Numbers 23:19).

Well? Those of you who contend with your Maker: "Hath God SAID" in I Tim. 2:4 that He "WILL have all men to be saved?" Well then, "SHALL HE NOT DO IT?" (Num. 23:19). Has "He [God] SPOKEN" in I Tim. 2:4 and many other places, that He "…WILL have all men to be saved?" Well then, "…shall He NOT MAKE IT GOOD?" (Num. 23:19).

All these Scriptures make it sound as if the Church has many worship practices that are nothing but the philosophies, commandments, and traditions of men rather than Scripture.

"Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men…Full well you reject the commandments of God, [like: ‘LOVE YOUR ENEMIES’] that you may keep your OWN TRADITION" (Mark 7:7 & 9).


God Bless and may He open up your eyes to see.

P.S. All this can be found in your bible, or in rays articles

Edit: For the your law question, read this article which i was pointed to asking the same questions.

http://www.*not-allowed*.com/freefromlaw.php

Alex

[Steve Crook]

3: Last. How do I respond to someone when I tell them we are not under the old law of tithing and they say, Oh! I guess we do not have to follow the ten commandments then either do we? I do not know how to respond to that except it is an excuse for ignorance.

OLD Covenant…II Cor. 3:14 ……………. NEW Covenant…II Cor. 3:6
FIRST Covenant…Heb. 8:7,9:1……………SECOND Covenant…Heb. 8:7,10:1-9
Came by Moses…John 1:17……………… Came by Christ…Heb. 8:6,9:15
Law of God in STONE…II Cor. 3:3 ………Law of God in HEART…Heb. 10:16
Law of MOSES…Acts 13:38-39………… Law of CHRIST…Gal. 6:2
Law of the flesh…Rom. 7:5-6…………….. Law of the SPIRIT…Rom. 8:2
NOT of faith…Gal. 3:2 ………………… …Law of FAITH…Rom. 3:27
Yoke of BONDAGE…Gal. 5:1 …………… Law of LIBERTY…James 1:25
Law of SIN…Rom. 7:5-6 ………………… Law of RIGHTEOUSNESS…Rom. 9:30-31
Law of DEATH…II Cor. 3:7 …………….. Law of LIFE…Gal. 3:11, 6:8
Christ removes OLD…Heb. 10:9 ………… Christ enacted the NEW…Heb.10:9
A SHADOW…Col. 2:14-17………………. The REALITY…Heb. 10:1-18
FULFILLED…Matt. 5:17-18 …………….. NOW IN FORCE…Heb. 8:6,10:9
Priesthood CHANGED…Heb. 7:12……….. UNCHANGEABLE Priesthood…Heb. 7:24
MANY sacrifices…Heb. 9:12-13 ………….. ONE sacrifice for sin…Heb. 10:12
IMPERFECT…Heb. 7:19………………… PERFECT…Heb. 7:19
Blood of ANIMALS…Heb. 9:19 ………… Blood of CHRIST…Matt. 26:28
Circumcision…Ex. 12:48 …………………. Uncircumcision…Rom. 4:9-12
WORKS of law…Gal. 3:10 ………………. NOT of works but GRACE…Eph. 2:8
REMEMBERS sins…Heb. 10:3 …………. FORGETS sins…Heb. 10:17
YEARLY atonement…Heb. 10:3 ………… PERMANENT atonement…Heb. 10:4
SINFUL priests…Heb. 5:3 ………………. SINLESS priest…Heb. 7:26
AARONIC priesthood…Heb. 7:11 ………. MELCHISEDEC priest…Heb. 5:5-10
MANMADE tabernacle…Heb. 8:5 ……… HEAVENLY tabernacle…Heb. 8:2,11
Out of LEVI…Heb. 7:11 …………………. Out of JUDAH…Heb. 7:14
WEAK, UNPROFITABLE…Heb. 7:18 …. POWER of ENDLESS LIFE…Heb. 7:16
NO inheritance…Rom. 4:13 ……………… ETERNAL inheritance…Heb. 9:15
Sacrifice of ANIMALS…Heb. 9:13 ………. Sacrifice of CHRIST…Heb. 9:28
Purified the FLESH…Heb. 8:13 ………….. Purged the CONSCIENCE…Heb. 8:14
PRODUCES wrath…Rom. 4:15 …………. SAVES from wrath…Rom. 5:9
Perfected NOTHING…Heb. 7:19 ……….. Perfects BELIEVERS…Heb. 10:14
NO MERCY…Heb. 10:28 ………………. COMPLETE MERCY…Heb. 8:12
NO justification…Acts 13:39 ……………… BELIEVERS justified…Acts 13:39
BRINGS a curse…Gal. 3:10 ……………… REDEEMS from curse…Acts 3:13
ABOLISHED…II Cor. 3:13 ……………… CONTINUES IN GLORY…II Cor. 3:11
Brought DEATH…II Cor. 3:7 …………….. Brought RECONCILIATION…II Cor. 5:18
ISRAEL ONLY…Deut. 4:7-8,5:3…………. ALL MANKIND…Mark 14:24, II Cor. 5:14-19

[Daniel]

Alex, that was a wonderful post! I hear you bro, God IS good and HE is a CONSUMING FIRE :wink:

You showed the creature perfectly, do you at all see a division between that which is made subject to vanity considering what it is? By that I see two creatures, THE creature and the NEW creature "between them" the language used in scripture changes, have you noticed that?


You wrote,

"For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [that’s God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)!

Amen THE "Creature" is SUBJECTED "IN HOPE" and shall be DELIVERED from the BONDAGE of CORRUPTION! In Pain UNTIL NOW. Paul was ordained to preach to "every CREATURE under heaven" Col 1:23 of  The glorious LIBERTY of the Sons of God.

Gal 5:1  Stand fast therefore IN THE LIBERTY wherewith Christ HATH MADE US FREE, and be "NOT entangled AGAIN" with THE YOKE OF BONDAGE.[/u]

"THE" Creature (subjected "in hope") becomes a "NEW" Creature IN Christ!Heb 11:1 FAITH being "the substance" of things HOPED FOR the EVIDENCE of things NOT SEEN. (an unseen "evidence" got to tell forensic science "that" :lol: ) Paul speaks about the hope that is seen being not hope at all, trying to get them to LOOK AT that which is not seen, it's a paradox.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a NEW CREATURE: OLD THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY[/u]; behold, ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW[/u]

Gal 2:4  And that because of FALSE BRETHREN unawares brought in, who came in privily to SPY OUT OUR LIBERTY which we HAVE in Christ Jesus, that they might BRING US INTO BONDAGE:[/u]

THE creature becoming the NEW creature

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision "availeth any thing", "nor uncircumcision", BUT A "NEW CREATURE".

Heb 2:15 And DELIVER THEM who through FEAR OF DEATH[/u] were all THEIR LIFETIME SUBJECT TO BONDAGE[/u]. ( As  the above says, be not entangled AGAIN "in relation to the bondage", here it applies the same concerning the same bondage, because God hath not given us AGAIN a Spirit of FEAR of the same thing. It speaks of the same thing yet differently as do the parables as I see it.

Heres what I find interesting, I had never seen this before or how it could fit

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having LOOSED THE PAINS OF DEATH :idea:  because it was not possible that HE should be holden of it. The STING of death IS SIN and "the power" OF SIN "IS" THE LAW

Alex added

The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and says, Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD[/b] (John 1:29).

A CHILD under "THE LAW"

Ecc 11:10 Therefore remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh: for CHILDHOOD and YOUTH are VANITY.[/u]

The child is under, a servant to sin

Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, AS LONG AS HE IS A CHILD[/u], differeth nothing from A SERVANT[/u], though he be lord of all; But is UNDER tutors and governors UNTIL THE TIME appointed of the father.  Even so we, WHEN we were CHILDREN, WERE IN BONDAGE UNDER the elements of the world:

1Cr 13:11  WHEN I was a CHILD, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but WHEN I became a man, I put away childish things.[/u]

Undeniably this is true which caused me to reflect on "both creatures" as the scriptures showed them.


2 Peter 2:19 While "they" promise them "liberty", they themselves are the SERVANTS OF CORRUPTION: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he BROUGHT IN BONDAGE.[/u]

Appears one is still in bondage to it, being servants of corruption speaking liberty and promising it but are overcome and brought in bondage of the same.

An aside note, you quoted

Remember the former things of old: for I am GOD, and there is none else; I am GOD, and there is none like Me. Declaring THE END "FROM" THE BEGINNING[/u], and from ancient times the things that are NOT YET DONE, saying, My counsel SHALL STAND, and WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE

On the cross its HIM who declared "The End" (Of the law) from "the Beginning", BOTH are HIM, saying, "It is finished"

Romans 10:4 For Christ "IS" THE END OF THE LAW for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, IT IS DONE. I AM[/b] Alpha and Omega, THE BEGINNING and THE END[/u]. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that "look for him" shall he APPEAR "the SECOND TIME" "without sin" unto salvation.

I thought, "without sin" He is without sin who bore our sins. I'm thinking about something.... If the STING of death IS Sin itself, whereas He bore our sins and comes a second time WITHOUT SIN, then what Paul spoke in acts concerning loosing the PAINS of death make sense. The whole of creation is in pains until now He said, with "the" creature being made subject "not willingly by reason of Him who subjected it in hope. Our hope of glory is Christ in us right? 2 Cr 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for "Jesus' sake", that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our "mortal flesh"  He alone is immortal, but does not MORTAL put ON immortality as we would put on Christ, or the new man?

I understand that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, and I agree with that, no argument ever with scripture. But how can the Kingdom of God BE something to us or in us, like righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit without being in it? See what I'm wondering about?

Why (concerning the mystery of Christ and the Church) is she the flesh of his FLESH and BONE and NOT BLOOD? I'm trying to recconcile the verses.

Unless the Spiritual truth lies after His resurrection showing that he was not a spirit and the new body which shows itself "after this manner" is contained in the mystery Paul spoke of?

The first is a natural man thats what comes FIRST. The SECOND MAN is SPIRITUAL I get that and HE still did have flesh and bone (in the picture) and SHE is His body As Paul shows echoing from Genesis (what first Adam said, saying of her "Now, this is the flesh Of MY FLESH and the BONE of MY BONE". If we cannot be spiritual here (of which the second man is, into whose image we are being created into) then we would all be thinking the things of God "is foolishness even NOW". See how I am thinking? I'm seeing this spiritually only here. We then would never be able to receive or speak spiritual truths here and now if we were not at some point here and now spiritual in some way. Its the life that "now IS" and "is to come" right? Bearing the image of the natural man (we all bear) and "the heavenly man" (Christ) into whose imagge we are being created into is "in this world" right? AS He IS so are WE "in this world". Being made a partaker of his divine nature, the incorruptible God bearing FRUIT (not corrupt fruit) but SINCERE fruit, good fruit OR GOD fruit. By that I mean not of those things we were ashamed of which bore fruit unto death but that in Him which bears fruit that remains by abiding in Him. A good tree cannot bring forth CORRUPT FRUIT. Spiritual truths.

Not looking at this as a physical truth but a spiritual truth. For example, "corrupt fruit" comes from natural man and the invisible characteristics of natural man. But the divine nature we are made partakers of are that of the incorruptible "nature" of God. To clothe ourselves in humility etc are qualities of Gods nature after a spiritual truth.

For example, the "natural mind" is death, thats the defition of this particular death is riight? Death being swallowed up in LIFE (His) is what we hope for. Wouldn't that be the inner man being renewed. Washing and renewing OUR MIND. As in the MIND of CHRIST which IS LIFE swallowing up DEATH (the natural mind) after a spiritual truth?

We are in thiis body "OF" DEATH and The last enemy IS death right? Our carnal mind IS DEATH, "our minds" were his enemies (great hatred). The Mind of Christ (or the wisdom that descendeth from above) is LIFE and PEACE. Makes great sense in pulling down every thought to the obedience of Christ, or putting us "his enemies" under his feet, to me seems to be putting us under his teaching by the Spirit. Not sure if I have this worked out but I have been thinking on this for some time. I could never figure out how the sting oof death being sin in relation to the law had to do with a dead corpse in the ground, no doubt we get dead and burried at a cemetary, who would argue that, thats not even in my considerations. Theres a spiritual truth in this as I see it and try very hard to see them.


Daniel

[lilitalienboi16]

I'm not sure what your question is daniel, but great post up until the end i got confused lol.

I'm not sure what you were asking but i think i can pull this together.

For some reason i want to answre you this way.

What i know is that CHRIST is IN US, and Yes we are a NEW CREATURE i believe after we accept CHRIST JESUS and decide to move on to maturity.

The law kills agreed, the Kingdom of HEAVEN IS IN US. We are the TEMPLE OF GOD. The spirit dwells within us at some point i'm not exaclty sure when that happens (Pentecost for the disciples), if hes not IN us He is WITH US.

So yea.. thats what i want to say for some reason and i don't know if it has anything to do with what you were asking, but good post

I hope i made sence,

God bless,

Alex

[Daniel]

I appologize Alex  :oops: I should not have "thought outloud" I should have kept to myself the latter part sorry about that. Thank you for your response, I'm still studying this out myself trying to comb through every direction of thought I possibly can in scripture here :lol:

Daniel

[lilitalienboi16]

I appologize Alex  :oops: I should not have "thought outloud" I should have kept to myself the latter part sorry about that. Thank you for your response, I'm still studying this out myself trying to comb through every direction of thought I possibly can in scripture here :lol:

Daniel

lol there is no reason to be ashamed in sharing your responce, im glad you did, it is perhaps my fault for not being able to understand you.

Remember an important thing when reading the scripture is PRAY FOR EYES AND EARS TO SEE AND HEAR THE SPIRITUAL! That is the most important part, and not to see the carnal and natural behind the IS WAS AND WILL BE but the SPIRITUAL! What i do whenever i read an article or read the bible i pray for eyes and ears first, then i just let it flow over me, and what i don't catch perhaps i will catch next time, and what i do catch, well Thank God He showed me it!

[Daniel]

I get that good advice, I just prayed ffor all of us here on this one Alex :lol:  Inspired by a verse you posted above, I had fun looking at a few "things" (pun intended) :lol:

God is such a great concealer! You had posted a verse above I was seeking into concerning remembering "the former things"

Definately a need of rightly dividing (and prayer right Alex? :lol: ) I thought you guys would get a kick out of these, beautifull really

 
Isaiah 46:9 REMEMBER THE "FORMER THINGS" OF OLD[/u]: for I am God, and there is none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Isaiah 48:18 will have you FORGET THEM  :lol: "the former things"

Ecc 1:9 The thing that "HATH BEEN", it is "THAT" which "SHALL BE"; and that which "IS IS DONE" is "THAT" which "SHALL BE DONE": and there is NO NEW THING UNDER THE SUN.[/u] (What about heavenly places?) :lol:

Isaiah 48:3 I have DECLARED the FORMER THINGS from "the beginning"; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they CAME TO PASS[/u].

No New "THING" in Ecc 1:9 is now New THING"S"

Isaiah 42:9  Behold, the FORMER THINGS ARE COME TO PASS[/u], and NEW THINGS do I declare: before they "spring forth" I tell you of them.

"Remember" is NOW FORGET

Isaiah 43:18 REMEMBER YE NOT[/u] the FORMER THINGS[/u], neither consider the THINGS OF OLD.

Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Rev 21:12 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for THE FORMER THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY[/u].

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: OLD THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY[/u]; behold, ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW.[/u]

Him declaring is now ye declaring, not of the former but of the new things

Isaiah 48:6 Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not YE DECLARE it? I have shewed thee NEW THINGS[/u] from this time, even HIDDEN THINGS, and thou didst not know them.

You have to love His perfect words they do make you think don't they?

Daniel

[rocky]

I get that good advice, I just prayed ffor all of us here on this one Alex :lol:  Inspired by a verse you posted above, I had fun looking at a few "things" (pun intended) :lol:

God is such a great concealer! You had posted a verse above I was seeking into concerning remembering "the former things"

Definately a need of rightly dividing (and prayer right Alex? :lol: ) I thought you guys would get a kick out of these, beautifull really

 
Isaiah 46:9 REMEMBER THE "FORMER THINGS" OF OLD[/u]: for I am God, and there is none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Isaiah 48:18 will have you FORGET THEM  :lol: "the former things"

Ecc 1:9 The thing that "HATH BEEN", it is "THAT" which "SHALL BE"; and that which "IS IS DONE" is "THAT" which "SHALL BE DONE": and there is NO NEW THING UNDER THE SUN.[/u] (What about heavenly places?) :lol:

Isaiah 48:3 I have DECLARED the FORMER THINGS from "the beginning"; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they CAME TO PASS[/u].

No New "THING" in Ecc 1:9 is now New THING"S"

Isaiah 42:9  Behold, the FORMER THINGS ARE COME TO PASS[/u], and NEW THINGS do I declare: before they "spring forth" I tell you of them.

"Remember" is NOW FORGET

Isaiah 43:18 REMEMBER YE NOT[/u] the FORMER THINGS[/u], neither consider the THINGS OF OLD.

Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Rev 21:12 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for THE FORMER THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY[/u].

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: OLD THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY[/u]; behold, ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW.[/u]

Him declaring is now ye declaring, not of the former but of the new things

Isaiah 48:6 Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not YE DECLARE it? I have shewed thee NEW THINGS[/u] from this time, even HIDDEN THINGS, and thou didst not know them.

You have to love His perfect words they do make you think don't they?

Daniel

Reading through these verses, these came to mind.  

Mat 9:17  Nor do people pour new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the skins would split, the wine would escape, and the skins be destroyed. But they put new wine into fresh skins, and both are saved."

Phi 3:8  Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ,

[Daniel]

Hey Rocky great verses I was running through those too I hit a stumper, but I think its in the story though.

Mat 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into OLD bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into NEW bottles, and both are preserved.[/u]

I have yet to really read this through but it struck me when I read it

Josh 1:19 And these bottles of wine, which we filled, were NEW; and, behold, they be RENT  :?:  and these our garments and our shoes are become old by reason of the very long journey.

See the RENT above?

Matt 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the RENT is MADE WORSE.[/u]   :?:  

Granted a ditinguishing between the bottles but did you read that?  I forgot to pray as Alex admonished me  :lol: (good advice not heeded :oops: )


Matt 13:52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe [which is] instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man [that is] an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.[/u]

This is interestingly worded

Lev 26:10 And ye shall eat old store, and "bring forth the old" because of the new.[/u]


Heb 8:13  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old[/u]. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Drunk the old and purge out the old leaven

1Cr 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Luke 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.

I'm tired and can't think or dig no more tonight.

Can I say this Rocky? I've been dying to when I saw your name?

How's ADRIAN? :lol:  :wink:


Daniel

[rocky]

How's ADRIAN? :lol:  :wink:


Daniel

Doin good.  I've been training again, I'm a little sore, yu know i'm gettin old.  

   

"Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize." -- (1 Corinthiansc9:26-27)

[chrissiela]

Cool!!  

Old... NEW
Creature... NEW creature
FORMER things.... NEW THINGS

Very interesting stuff  :wink:

Was thinking on the resurrected body of Christ, which was one of "flesh and bone"... and how WE ARE His body (flesh and bone... of which HE IS THE BLOOD of the body  :shock: )

And how Eve was taken OUT OF Adam (having been put into a "deep sleep") and how Adam said:

Gen 2:23  And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.


First Adam... SECOND/LAST Adam

Chrissie  :wink:

[Daniel]

Cool!!  

Old... NEW
Creature... NEW creature
FORMER things.... NEW THINGS

Very interesting stuff  :wink:

Was thinking on the resurrected body of Christ, which was one of "flesh and bone"... and how WE ARE His body (flesh and bone... of which HE IS THE BLOOD of the body  :shock: )

And how Eve was taken OUT OF Adam (having been put into a "deep sleep") and how Adam said:

Gen 2:23  And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.


First Adam... SECOND/LAST Adam

Chrissie  :wink:

Amen Chrissie!!! This is a MYSTERY Paul said, speaking of Christ and the Church. His FLESH and BONE.

John 1:13 Which were born, NOT OF BLOOD, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but OF GOD.

I have read something in the OT on the "issue of blood" which brought me to the woman with an "issue of blood" in the NT I'm wondering how this applies, been thinking on this and the 12 years of age

Luke 8:43 And A WOMAN having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any, Came behind him[/u], and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood STANCHED.[/u]

His words are SPIRIT and LIFE so to see this "naturally" would miss the point of why its in the old and new and the spiritual truth to HER blood being stanched, and the power leaving Him and entering her as well as Him turning to "know her".

Gods words give you enough to think on for a lifetime, the day by day dicoveries are truly thought provoking and inspiring.

Daniel

[lilitalienboi16]

Excellent post danial, and i can see what you are saying much like Chrissie said, old new, New creature in Christ, etc.

I think its all been said

Great post guys, all of you!

[Daniel]

How's ADRIAN? :lol:  :wink:


Daniel

Doin good.  I've been training again, I'm a little sore, yu know i'm gettin old.  

   

"Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize." -- (1 Corinthiansc9:26-27)

Thiis verse is completely amazing to me Rocky, from one verse I have a thousand pages which has pulled so much understanding to this one verse.I caught something else in it if you can hear it. I'm trying to keep this short pulling out only the relevant leads on this one but it blessed me.



James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word[/u], the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the WHOLE BODY.[/u] :idea:  ( unto the perfect man)

Like an entire ship being turned around by a small helm James 3:4

Behold, we put BITS in the horses' MOUTHS, that they may obey us; and "we TURN about" their WHOLE body.

This makes greater sense

1Cr 9:27 But I "keep" UNDER MY BODY, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

James 3:6 says the TONGUE defileth the WHOLE BODY[/u]

Psalm 39:1 I will take heed to my ways, that I SIN NOT with MY TONGUE: I will keep my mouth with a bridle, while the WICKED is before me.  Goes with 1John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God SINNETH NOT; but he that is begotten of God KEEPETH HIMSELF, and that WICKED ONE "toucheth him not".  :shock:

James 1:26 If any man among you "seem to be religious", and bridleth not his tongue, but "deceiveth his own heart", THIS man's religion is vain.

I'm glad for Pauls heed to himself and that it was written that he did certain things privately lest he had run his race in vain.

There is a MYSTERY of INIQUITY, strange how the TONGUE itself is A WORLD of "INIQUITY" James 3:6 isn't it? Sure gives you alot to think on.

2Thes 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only HE who NOW LETTETH will let, UNTIL HE be taken out of the way.[/u]

Draw out the tongue I suppose

Job 41:1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or HIS TONGUE with a cord which THOU LETTEST down?

Paul talked about the BEASTS of Ephesus right? Ephesus, means "permitted" God sure does letteth or permit Then I thought of Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the BEAST; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they GNAWED their TONGUES for PAIN. Which makes sense of the brute beasts not afraid to speak evil of which they spoke.

As I was studying "the tongue" which holds the power of death, I checked into running the words "power of death" it lands at two places in scripture spoken in that manner.

Prov 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. (notice also the power of LIFE and our CONFESSION of HIM (who IS LIFE) by the same tongue)

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;[/u]

If that aint enough to get you to think of the mystery of inquity, not only so but I thought aboout the Rich man after a "spiritual truth" ye SAY ye are RICH, what was said was something, so I thought of boasting and the tongue, it took me right back to James 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and BOASTETH great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! The FLAME the Rich man (after a spiritual truth) was tormented in was his own TONGUE . Theres PAGES of study on this as the Tongue IS a Fire James speaks of. All spiritual truths thats why any TONGUE that RISES AGAINST us in judgment we condemn.Psalm 64:8 So they shall make THEIR OWN TONGUE to fall upon themselves: all that see them shall flee away. As Jesus said AS you judge so shall you be judged.

It might be BETTER for us that one of "our members" perish, the TONGUE is considered a MEMBER :lol: Holding the power of death is shown as "the devil and the tongue" which through death Christ came to destroy.Do you remember that verse where their tongues were consumed in their mouths? :lol:


There is so much more on this on every level, it sure is a mystery that "little member" :wink:

Daniel