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[kweli]

Hello everyone

I'm seeking some sort of direction. There's a verse that says something about Paul and I'm not sure if I'm on the right track in my thinking.

1 Timothy 1
15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance: that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
16 Nonetheless, for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering as a pattern for those who should hereafter believe in Him to life everlasting [YLT says, "but because of this I found kindness, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all long-suffering, for a pattern of those about to believe on him to life age-during:"].

This (to me) seems to be saying there's a pattern shown first in Paul that we have to follow if we believe in Him for life age-during. Is that a proper way of looking at it? And if so, are there possibly other verses that support this?

I ask this because I'm putting together notes titled 'We must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of God'. This was inspired by our recent sharing of tribulations here in the forum. Any help will be appreciated.

All GLory to GOD

Oh, please forgive me for not diving into the recent conference topic. I havent started on that study yet so I think I should rather wait. I wont mind anybody joining in. 

[OBrenda]

I think I see what your are saying, but....knowing that Paul was once Saul & God converted him (against his will) on the road to Damascus.....

15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance:
that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
16 Nonetheless, for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering as a pattern for those....who should hereafter believe in Him to life everlasting [YLT says, "but because of this I found kindness, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all long-suffering, for a pattern of those about to believe on him to life age-during:"].[/table]

I think the longsuffering here is experienced by Jesus, (not Paul) to show a pattern of "Jesus Christ's" purpose who came into the world to save sinners...(Of whom Paul Say's he was chief....because he persecuted the church)..if God can forgive & convert Saul who hated & rejected Christ to become our beloved apostle Paul, this should teach us the truth about UR/the Saviour of all...

And to the point I think your getting to, this should also be our example...extending longsuffering to others who persecute hate & reject us/Christ.  These are some tribulations we will experience no doubt..

Sound O.K.
Brenda

[Heidi]

Adding to what O'Brenda has said. 

Searching the internet, using Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon, the word longsuffering andpattern is:
Longsuffering - G3116. makrothymeō
Pattern - 5296. hupotuposis

Outline of Biblical Usage:
Longsuffering:
1) to be of a long spirit, not to lose heart
a) to persevere patiently and bravely in enduring misfortunes and troubles
b) to be patient in bearing the offenses and injuries of others
1) to be mild and slow in avenging
2) to be longsuffering, slow to anger, slow to punish

Pattern:
1) an outline, sketch, brief and summary exposition
2) an example, pattern
a) for an example of those who should hereafter believe
b) to show by the example of my conversation that the same grace which I had obtained would not be wanting also to those who should hereafter believe

1 Timothy 1:16  "However, for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first, Jesus Christ might display all His patience, for an example of those who were going to believe in Him for eternal life."

Like O'Brenda said, (and I am paraphrasing), if God can forgive Paul, He can forgive anyone......

Love
Heidi

[OBrenda]

Hey Kweli,

Last night I watched the last video from Ray's conference, and he spoke of longsuffering.

I was so blessed by what he said I wept...it changed me....you will be blessed.

In His Love,
Brenda

P.S. Good stuff Heidi 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hey Kweli my friend

Here is something for you to chew on from LOF 7

THE CHIEF OF SINNERS WAS THE PERFECT LAW KEEPER

Now then for the shocker! In I Tim. 1:15 we read this:

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation [in other words, what Paul is about to say is the absolute truth and worthy of considerable contemplation] that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, OF WHOM I AM CHIEF"!!

I covered these verses in great detail in a previous installment. Paul REALLY WAS the WORST, PREEMINENT SINNER THAT HAS EVER LIVED. Paul was truly "CHIEF of sinners"!! And we read where Paul was once "BLAMELESS in the keeping of the law of Moses."

Now then, WHEN was Paul (1) "BLAMELESS IN LAW KEEPING"? And WHEN was Paul (2) "the CHIEF OF SINNERS"? The answer: AT THE SAME TIME!!!

WHEN PAUL HAD REACHED THE ZENITH OF TOTAL OBEDIENCE AND ZEAL TO GOD UNDER THE OLD COVENANT LAW OF MOSES, IT CAUSED HIM AT THE SAME TIME TO BE THE WORLD’S WORST SINNER!!!

Paul was both THE MOST PERFECT LAW-KEEPER AND THE WORLD’S WORST SINNER, AT THE SAME TIME!!!

NO WONDER PAUL WROTE:

"Who also makes us competent dispensers of a NEW covenant, NOT of the letter, but OF the spirit, for the letter KILLS but the spirit gives LIFE" (II Cor. 3:6).

The Old Covenant written in Ten Commandments on stone tablets was an "ADMINISTRATION OF DEATH" (Ver. 7). And the letter will ALWAYS KILL:

"They shall put you out of the synagogues; yea, the time comes, that whosoever KILLS YOU will think that he does God service [by following the law of Moses under the Old Covenant]" (John 16:2).

To prove to God his GREATEST ZEAL, Paul persecuted and slaughtered the church, which was legal for him to do under the authority of the High Priest, Chief Priests, Elders and Council at the Temple in Jerusalem, of whom Jesus Himself said, "They SIT IN MOSES SEAT." And it was this very ZEAL FOR GOD that also made him the world’s WORST SINNER! Unbelievable! UNBELIEVABLE!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!

But we must believe it—it is the Word of God!

 http://bible-truths.com/lake7.html

[mharrell08]

Hello Kweli,

The emphasis in Paul's statement is on Christ and not himself.

Paul stated that when it came to sinners, he was chief or in this case 'the worst'. But Paul then goes to say that he obtained mercy from God to display Christ's patience or 'longsuffering' IN him. The pattern is Christ's patience or 'longsuffering' with ALL sinners [...Jesus Christ might shew forth ALL long-suffering, for a pattern of THOSE about to believe on him to life age-during. (1 Tim 1:16)

Christ is the one that follows this pattern (choosing us then longsuffering or patience with us, the sinners). Then like Paul, we follow after Christ.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[kweli]

Okay I need to go learn English.

Thanks to everybody for opening this up. I was readying myself to being a 'Paulist'. I get it now.

Hi OBrenda. It takes forever and evermore  to download video files from this side, but I'll be (im)patient and wait for the audios. Longsuffering is key.

All Glory to All

[Dave in Tenn]

Hey Kweli.

We could do worse than to follow the example of Paul.  He even recommended at times that 'we' do recorded in Scripture.  While we are still maturing in faith, he's the most consistent example that we have.  We know more about his life and ministry (from Acts and from his letters) in scripture than any other of Christ's apostles.

As such, his is the first well-recorded life and walk that matches what ours is.  Jesus was his Lord, too.  He's our well-respected brother and teacher.  He points to Christ.  And he wrote a lot of the Word of God.  Since God's Word is spirit, we can't follow Paul literally and in the flesh, but he's an example to us nonetheless.

I know you know this.  I just don't want to throw the apostle out with the bath-water.