Any true Churches

[Douglas Wayne Thomas]

You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery;' but I tell you that everyone who gazes at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.  

Matthew 5:27

I do not think the sin is in looking it is the intent. However it is very difficult to look at something that one would want and not have the intent to posses that thing even for a short period of time.

The small change for me was knowing what God wanted me, and expected me, to do and actually being able to do those things. Everynight when I go to sleep (I think of sleeping as dying) I try to become more transformed by seeking God's will for my life when I awake.

This transformation is always occurring and it is very difficult. I too have a very very long way to go to even be able to participate of the scraps of God's banquet.

[Akira329]

Douglas started this post and on the surface it may have seem to be kind of a rebuff to Rays teachings

Is there a church around that teaches the truth? Can I physically fellowship with anyone in a church where the truth is being taught? How would I find out about such a church if one did exist?

Assuming that all that come to the forum have read Ray's position on this is seems on the surface to be an absurd question to ask.

We here at the forum and conference want to believe that we assemble and fellowship as the true church but as I looked at this passage and it may me ponder.

Mat 16:18  And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus asked peter who He was...

(Mat 16:15)  He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

(Mat 16:16)  And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

(Mat 16:17)  And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

We all read it but do we get it? It seems to me that many (especially Catholic and other denominations ) who reads Matthew 16:18 think that peter is the one who the church is being built on.

There is a play on words that makes this happen . Peter means a piece of the rock , a stone, but the Rock being referred to is feminine a huge mass of Rock...substational.

Peter did not come up with that answer the Spirit of God revealed it to him, it is the spirit of God that will bring you to the Rock

Luk 8:6  And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.

The rock they stumble on is Petra (look it up) Not Petros (peters name)  The cannot take root because they are not of the spirit, they cannot receive the word.  They stumble because they follow mans thoughts and doctrines, not the spirit. 

We are to have our foundation on this Rock, not any stones  (petros or lithos)

The same Rock mentioned many times in the OT

2Sa 22:32  For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a Rock, save our God?    Hebrew for Rock  is tsur tsur

Being human we want to be in a physical man made dwelling made of man made stones and we do like following 'talking head' but peter himself tells us we are living stones....stones that are alive because the Spirit reveals to us to the Rock.

That is why Ray can affirmly state that NO CURCH on earth has true doctrine.  It is God himself that will construct it...He will select the building material.

You asked "How would I find out about such a church if one did exist?

That is why Jesus told us to ..... Seek the Kingdom...isn't that what we are all trying to do.


beloved

I had to save that as a word doc!!
Antaiwan

[Ninny]

Jeff H's last post was very sad I am sorry that he's leaving.
Kathy

[digitalwise]

Where is the true church?

Well that is question with a deep paradox.

Here's the paradox.

If no true church exists then then NO church exists on earth that is of God.

Are you a true believer then?

If you are true believer then the true church exists...as you my dear brothers and sisters make up that spiritual building!

That's the paradox.

I believe in reference to Ray's teachings he was simply stating that it is NOT a building but it is made up and consists of believers like YOU gathering in HIS name.

It is staring you in the face.

Rather then critising the "outer" false churches - every man should look to his own household and see whether he/she be in the faith. That's the true church.

On forgiveness - we of ourselves WILL never make it. It is God's GRACE in CHRIST that puts us into his Kingdom.

digitaladvisor

[Akira329]

I don't quite understand why Jeff is saying he should be removed from the forum.
I also don't quite get his stance?
Is lying ok where it profits good? Doesn't the lying to get the good turns into deceit??
Isn't deceit a product of lying?
When did it become ok to lie even if you didn't know it?? The lie has to be dealt with?
How can one become familiar with the truth if they didn't first know the lie? I wouldn't have known the
lie was a lie except for the truth.

Excuse me, ya'll, I'm just rambling on.
I am confused as to where he was going with this.

Hope he comes back.

Antaiwan

[Douglas Wayne Thomas]

Jeff H. wrote, "This is a good place, but not always a kind place." I have to agree with him somewhat, there are some great people posting on this forum and then there are the people trying to be cryptic. If one does not explain themselves and the meanings to their posts it comes off as some type of superior spiritual intellectuality.

I am not trying to be depressing, it is just that after having been lied too so many times by "Mainstream Churches" some of us have become a little paranoid. Myself especially, I asked these (original) questions with a sincere desire for a answer, not to be absurd.  Many people have given me a great deal to think about, however it is time I stopped posting and went back to lurking on the outer fringes of Bible-truths.com. Please lock this post, it has outlived it's original meaning, and intent, and has caused dissension amongst several members. That was never my original intention. 

[firefly77]

This is so sad to see... once again I feel sick that we are not able to at least agree to disagree. Instead of getting upset, why don't we ask, "Help me to understand your point of view because I am just not getting it." If we don't get along now, how can we ever serve Christ and His interest? What did Jesus say? "This is how everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." Hmmmm... Is it an impossible task? I don't think so!

Grace and Peace,
Angie

[Beloved]

Assuming that all that come to the forum have read Ray's position on this is seems on the surface to be an absurd question to ask

We here at the forum and conference want to believe that we assemble and fellowship as the true church but as I looked at this passage and it may me ponder

Oh my I really have to apologize because this section got pasted in all wrong it should have read

Assuming that all that come to the forum have read Ray's position on this topic   on the surface this seems to be absurd question to ask but is it?

When I posted this I was really trying to support you in asking this question , you have made a good point.  I began to see more myself. Sometimes I need multiple angles to see a point....I love it when the scriptures reveal more. 

I apologize again if I hurt your feelings it was not my intent. Each person that posts takes ray's teachings and inputs a part of himself from their own perspective, we come such varied backgrounds what is simple to see for one is not so simple for another to see. You can read a verse a thousand times and not see all that it has to say.

I hate to type and cannot always read the fonts and when I post I often forget to do spellchecks and proofread sometimes, this correction may not make a difference but I can honestly see how you could have thought I was being sarcastic.

beloved  (I spellchecked, apologize and a lot of other words were corrected.)

[Dave in Tenn]

why don't we ask, "Help me to understand your point of view because I am just not getting it."

Yep.

That takes gracefulness from both the poster and the 'repliers', however.  And in long threads such as this that meander into new territory, it gets especially difficult to suss out who is responding to what.  

Add to that, if one encounters a longer POST which resembles a sermon, replies to various points in it CAN seem like a gang-up.  

What in regular human interaction can be discussed in a few minutes can take days on in internet forum, which gives misunderstanding more time to breed.

It is with a lot of wisdom that the originators of THIS forum decided on it's purpose.  It's not possible to fact-check every thought expressed any more than it is to discern motives behind posts (until it becomes abundantly clear).  Through discussion, we CAN clarify points raised AND keep to the purpose of the forum.  But we can't do that if either posters or repliers aren't willing to listen, only to preach.  With that, we get a Babel.  That serves no one.

   

[AK4]

Its crazy.  Ive been here for almost 3 months but read almost every post and  every email and etc etc and never have i seen whats been here lately.  And the root of the cause is because Ray held another convention and exposed more that contradict.  

One thing i have learned and not just from Rays teachings, but in general, I have learned to give my other cheek when someone slaps me in the other.  I learn this outside of here, but what i am seeing lately is that, its not some, its a very few that has just really appalled me. I agree with some of the "new people" who have come here.


I would consider myself pretty new here but i know that what the Lord has shown me, i could easily stand with the "veterans", (but only in humility i would do this, this was added from the original post).  It makes me truly sad because i was extremely lonely before knowing there was this place and if i had to chose again between lonely and being in a place with "other like minded believers who criticizes "newbies"", id rather be alone.

Those very few need to check themselves and you know who you are, or better put ask God to show you humility from the knowledge that you  have obtained.  Ask for a thorn in your flesh to keep you humble.  

I could go on and on but I wont.  

In all sincerity and in Jesus name,

Anthony


ps And yet another thread will be locked because of silliness

[aqrinc]

This first chapter of Hebrews can put things in perspective; When we get upset
because something did not go our way we need to remember what this life of ours
is about. It is about becoming what God Is Creating; a people for His Name.

Geo.

Acts 15:14:
Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Micah 4:5:

For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.

Ephesians 2:8:

For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Hebrews: 1 v1-14  (Bible In Basic English)

1-In times past the word of God came to our fathers through the prophets, in different parts and in different ways;

2-But now, at the end of these days, it has come to us through his Son, to whom he has given all things for a heritage, and through whom he made the order of the generations;

3-Who, being the outshining of his glory, the true image of his substance, supporting all things by the word of his power, having given himself as an offering making clean from sins, took his seat at the right hand of God in heaven;

4-Having become by so much better than the angels, as the name which is his heritage is more noble than theirs.

5-To which of the angels did God say at any time, You are my Son, this day I have given you being? or, I will be his Father, and he will be my Son?

6-And again, when he is sending his only Son into the world, he says, Let all the angels of God give him worship.

7-And of the angels he says, Who makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire:

8-But of the Son he says, Your seat of power, O God, is for ever and ever; and the rod of your kingdom is a rod of righteousness.

9-You have been a lover of righteousness and a hater of evil; and so God, your God, has put the oil of joy on your head more than on the heads of those who are with you.

10-You, Lord, at the first did put the earth on its base, and the heavens are the works of your hands:

11-They will come to their end; but you are for ever; they will become old as a robe;

12-They will be rolled up like a cloth, even like a robe, and they will be changed: but you are the same and your years will have no end.

13-But of which of the angels has he said at any time, Take your seat at my right hand till I put all those who are against you under your feet?

14-Are they not all helping spirits, who are sent out as servants to those whose heritage will be salvation?

[Craig]

The thread was locked because as Doug said, it kind of got away from his question.

I'm not sure what happened, the posts on church has gotten testy in the past so that was probably the tipping point.