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Author Topic: Any true Churches  (Read 22109 times)

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Douglas Wayne Thomas

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Any true Churches
« on: September 27, 2008, 04:10:59 PM »

     Having read a great deal of these posts has got me thinking. Is every Christian church so wrong that they have nothing good to offer their followers? I am not trying to start WW3 here just asking.

     Are we supposed to ignore everything that the "mainstream churches" do because we know that many of the doctrines that they teach are false? Is there a church around that teaches the truth? Can I physically fellowship with anyone in a church where the truth is being taught? How would I find out about such a church if one did exist? Just some questions I have. Any replies would be greatly appreciated.

Seeking God's truth always.

Douglas
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mharrell08

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2008, 04:20:03 PM »

     Having read a great deal of these posts has got me thinking. Is every Christian church so wrong that they have nothing good to offer their followers? I am not trying to start WW3 here just asking.

     Are we supposed to ignore everything that the "mainstream churches" do because we know that many of the doctrines that they teach are false? Is there a church around that teaches the truth? Can I physically fellowship with anyone in a church where the truth is being taught? How would I find out about such a church if one did exist? Just some questions I have. Any replies would be greatly appreciated.

Seeking God's truth always.

Douglas


Hello Douglas,

Have you read part 8 of the Lake of Fire series: WHERE IS THE CHURCH THAT JESUS BUILT? [http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html] This may give you the answers you seek.


Marques
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KristaD

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2008, 04:27:01 PM »

If people gather together in a building they call a "church" and hold "services" and "worship" then they are deceived, period. Anyone who knows and believes the truth would not gather in the same manner as the modern day churches, they would make it clear that it was something different. As far as ignoring everything they do, I'm not sure I understand what you mean, churches have been known to really help the community's needy and there's nothing about that we should ignore; it's just their teachings that we need to stay away from. Not saying that everything every church teaches is wrong, but we should search for the truth in scripture and be wary of things from those churches because we know that they are blind. Truth believers would be more likely to gather in homes and have Bible studies, and you would have to attend one to see what took place and was taught to know if they were right or not.
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2008, 04:27:39 PM »

Quote
Is every Christian church so wrong that they have nothing good to offer

They have no teaching that are worth anything.

Quote
Are we supposed to ignore everything that the "mainstream churches" do

No, just what they teach.

Quote
Is there a church around that teaches the truth?

Not that we've come across.

Quote
Can I physically fellowship with anyone in a church where the truth is being taught?

Non question because there are no churches teaching the truth. But it's impossible not to have acquaintances outside the Body of Christ.

Dennis

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Beloved

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2008, 04:32:51 PM »

I believe that Ray would say NO there is not a church doctrine that is true

But I just looks at the words:

Fellowhip  G2842  κοινωνία
koinōnia koy-nohn-ee'-ah
From G2844; partnership, that is, (literally) participation, or (social) intercourse, or (pecuniary money) benefaction: - (to) communicate (-ation), communion, (contri-), distribution, fellowship.

Church G1577
ἐκκλησία   ekklēsia  ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.

Why would I now want to participate/ social or religious intercourse with a group with false doctrines?

It does not mean that I will not have conversations with them, I just will not pray with them, they do not pray the Fathers Will.
 I no longer need their social events because that caters to carnal needs and I want the spiritual now.
I will not support them financially but I will give to those who have needs.

That is why few come out...they will not rest in God's sovernity, they will not listen and follow "the Good Shepard",  they would rather follow another flock of sheep led by a billy goat.

Thou shalt not commit adultery....it is not just a physical law

spiritually it mean not to mix   :  

good with evil,   linen with the wool,    Truth with false doctrines.


Beloved  


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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2008, 04:57:20 PM »

I can't tell you how many times I have wished there was a 'yes' answer to your questions.  Use to be nearly continuously, now it's just down to a few times a day.   ;)

But, no...the only thing that would appeal to me in that list is casual fellowship...yet I know that would be tense and interrupted if they found out what a 'heretic' I was, and ultimately empty.

If you think about it (and believe me, I have) no local fellowship that DID believe and practice according to the truth would be large enough to buy a building, even if they wanted to.   ;D  You don't build megachurches with this gospel.

No...for most of us this is our time in the wilderness.  We can pray for different, but His will be done.

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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

AK4

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2008, 05:08:05 PM »

I believe most churches teach you the milk of the word along with some corrupt doctrines.  In other words the they teach some truth and mix in a lot lies with it.  Its a very clever way the devil decieves people (and that isnt just in churches either).

Think about it.  Almost all of us came out of a babylon with some truth, the baby milk of the Word, but here are being fed the steak and potatoes with Rays teachings inspired by God.

We all came here with some truth.  We all built our house on the sand in some sort of church.  You shouldnt feel the need to go back to any of those churches because you already drank the milk they teach. This reminds me of my most favorite thing Ray has wrote...

Lake of Fire series part 14

LET ME KNOW

Are you beginning to SEE IT? Is God giving you understanding? Do you see the grand and marvelous wisdom of it all? Drop me an email—let me know. I want to know how many out there in computerland are beginning to have ears to hear and eyes to see.

THANK GOD, that I (L. Ray Smith) had fallen away, left my first love, looked back, forsook the Lord, and watched my house upon the sand come crashing down! Only then was I able to stand upon the sand of the sea, and see the beast within, the man of sin, the son of perdition, and Satan the devil who DECEIVED ME!

But NOW, "I am crucified WITH Christ: nevertheless I live: yet not I, but Christ lives IN ME: and the life which I now life in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, who loved ME [and YOU], and gave Himself for ME [and YOU]" (Gal. 2:20).

In conclusion:

"I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard BEHIND me a great voice, as of a trumpet… And I turned to see the voice that spoke with ME. And being TURNED, I saw seven gold candlesticks; [the complete church of God in all generations, with MY sins outlined in each and every one of them] And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

His head and His hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and His eyes were as a flame of fire; [PURGING all who look upon Him] And His feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned [refined] in a furnace; and His voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in His right hand seven stars: and out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was as the SUN SHINING IN HIS STRENGTH [no longer a physical body with HOLES in it].

And when I saw Him [in my SPIRIT] I fell at His feet as DEAD. And He laid His right hand upon ME [as He will upon YOU], saying unto ME [and unto YOU],

FEAR NOT" (Rev. 1:10-17).

Truly:  "We have seen the enemy and he is US."

« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 05:09:21 PM by AK4 »
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Richard D

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2008, 05:09:06 PM »

Hi Douglas.

Say, you know, I felt the same way too. About finding a church as well, where one can fellowship. When I show up at a church I ask what happens to people that don’t except Christ on this side.

Answer, they go to hell and suffer forever.

Then I ask do people have a free will to do as they wish.

Answer, yes they do.

It seems to me if any religion teaches these two beliefs, then all other teachings they teach have to evolve around these teachings.

So where is the truth? Since I started reading Ray’s papers and seeing the scriptures Ray uses to prove his point I ‘am fully confident that God is indeed working through Ray.

Why would one want to go from Christ teachings to the Pharisees teachings or go from Ray’s teaching which is truth back to the church teachings which are false?

When I went to church I walk out the same man I was when I walk in. I never change and I always had fears of not being saved.

Now that I have been reading Ray’s papers and spending time on this forum I’m changing and I’m no longer afraid of not being saved.

There is something inside of me that won’t let me go back to church again and that’s the truth I now have which is exposing the great deception the church has been involved with for hundreds of years leading people astray.

I hope this helps you with your understanding. Just walk away. God wants you to come out of the great harlot.

It’s why you’re here and why I’m here and why we are all here.

Your brother and friend in Christ. Richard.
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Beloved

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2008, 05:09:17 PM »

Dave I would just make one small point in your last sentence

No...for most of us this is our time in the wilderness. We can pray for different, but His will be done.

We are no longer in the wilderness....they are in the wilderness, just like the nation of Israel who wandered 40 yrs , because of their unbelief.

Remember there were no commas in Greek or Hebrew, Read the words

(Luk 3:4)  as it is written in the book of the discourses of Isaiah the prophet: A voice of one crying aloud! In the desert, prepare ye the way of the Lord, straight, be making his paths;

John the Baptist resided in the physical desert, and he drew them there so they could see where they were spiritually.

beloved



« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 05:12:19 PM by Beloved »
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Richard D

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2008, 05:16:19 PM »


John the Baptist resided in the physical desert, and he drew them there so they could see where they were spiritually.


Beloved

That’s and awesome point. I never thought of it like that. Thank you.  :)




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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2008, 05:48:19 PM »

Got it.   :)

Maybe we're on the mountaintop with Christ, then.

Mark 9:2  And after six days doth Jesus take Peter, and James, and John, and bringeth them up to a high mount by themselves, alone, and he was transfigured before them,...

having already been with Jesus in the wilderness...

Matthew 4:2  ...and having fasted forty days and forty nights, afterwards he did hunger.

I know afterwards, I did hunger.   
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 05:55:04 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Beloved

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2008, 06:03:27 PM »

In regard to going to church, this passage comes to mind 

(Mat 6:5)  `And when thou mayest pray, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites, because they love in the synagogues, and in the corners of the broad places--standing--to pray, that they may be seen of men; verily I say to you, that they have their reward.

(Mat 6:6)  `But thou, when thou mayest pray, go into thy chamber, and having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret, and thy Father who is seeing in secret, shall reward thee manifestly.

G5009  ταμεῖον  tameion
Thayer Definition:
1) a storage chamber, storeroom  2) a chamber especially an inner chamber
3) a secret room    Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: contraction of a presumed derivative of tamias (a dispenser or distributor

G2374  θύρα  thura 
Thayer Definition:
1) a door  1a) the vestibule  1b) used of any opening like a door, an entrance, way or passage into   1c) in a parable or metaphor  1c1) the door through which sheep go in and out, the name of him who brings salvation to those who follow his guidance 1c2) “an open door” is used of the opportunity of doing something  1c3) the door of the kingdom of heaven (likened to a palace) denotes the conditions which must be complied with in order to be received into the kingdom of God
Part of Speech: noun feminine

So you see, we need go to the supreme distrubitor/ store room to pray to the Father in secret and we close our door to the outside.

In the past Joe started a post on the "secret places" that deals with this subject more.

I always wondered what Jesus did when he went to the temple in Jersulem. Then figurued it out that everywhere he went ....he was always in the secret place, because he was always praying and doing the Will of the Father....in the temple, in the streets and in the publican dining halls.

When my eyes were finally opened I let go of my herd mentality and now I am  thinking like a single sheep. Follow that Shepard.

beloved
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cjwood

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2008, 07:21:32 PM »

the joy in my heart grows more and more as i learn so many tidbits of remarkable truths from my brothers and sisters in Christ. it causes me to realize how much studying i have to do in order to truly make the scriptures and the life of Jesus Christ my mainstay. i love your wisdom Beloved.

claudia
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Falconn003

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2008, 12:36:20 AM »

Quote
Church G1577
ἐκκλησία   ekklēsia  ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.

Beloved 


Ah  Beloved so wonderfully had already define chruch ,,,,,, i see  ;D ;)

Rodger
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Ninny

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2008, 02:25:18 AM »

I can Identify with your questions! Ray and some of the others here came out of the Worldwide Church of God, I was a Seventh Day Adventist for many years! Some friends and I began to realize that the SDA church was not where we belonged! BUT we were all Adventists at heart and felt like there was no other place to go! So for 8 long years we worshipped together in our homes keeping the Sabbath day like all good Adventists.

 The more we studied the Scriptures the more questions we had. I never believed in all the doctrines of the church, but you know they kept the Sabbath and they SAID they had the truth! I never believed that people burned forever in hell and the SDA church teaches that sinners will be destroyed instead of tortured.  I didn't know of any other church that taught that!

Well, we did find another place to worship once we realized that the Sabbath is not the true test of faith! We found the Vineyard Churches and our Vineyard healed us of all that Adventism! My friends are still there, but no not me I have to go out testing the waters! Going where God sends you sure won't win you any popularity contests :o 

So here I am again, only this time I understand more about studying the Scriptures and "READING ALL THE WORDS!" I don't think Ray Smith wins many popularity contests either! So we're all in this together sitting before our computer screens reading the LOF series over and again wondering why we never saw it before and kind of like we're the last humans on earth wondering if there are any more of us out there!  Sometimes it feels like you're sitting in front of a shortwave radio saying "C Q, (seek you) is anyone there?"
Well God is there! Sorry, I don't know any true churches except for the Church that Jesus is coming back for, when we are told "This is the way, walk ye in it" What else can we do?

Walking with you,
Kathy


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WhoAmI

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2008, 03:01:14 AM »

I know of no man made church that gives the following:

Lu 11:3 our appointed bread be giving us daily;

Some might give you Pharisee bread on Sunday or even Wednesday. Even others might give you a Sadducee's meal on a tradition or another special day.

Mt 10:8 ...freely ye did receive, freely give.

Be it money, freedom etc..your going to pay the Pharisees toll.

Most churches do this:

Mt 23:14 `Wo to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye eat up the houses of the widows, and for a pretence make long prayers, because of this ye shall receive more abundant judgment.

Lu 11:43 `Wo to you, the Pharisees, because ye love the first seats in the synagogues, and the salutations in the market-places

A lot of outward show goes on in the man made churches. A lot of religious pride and chest beating.

Mt 12:38 Then answered certain of the scribes and Pharisees, saying, `Teacher, we will to see a sign from thee.`
Mt 12:39 And he answering said to them, `A generation, evil and adulterous, doth seek a sign, and a sign shall not be given to it, except the sign of Jonah the prophet;

Many are always on the look out for the latest signs in the churches.

The man made churches will feed you this:

Mt 16:6 and Jesus said to them, `Beware, and take heed of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees;`

Mr 8:15 and he was charging them, saying, `Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod

Many types of leaven and all dangerous.


We trust in the mercy of God to feed us the only true bread...

Joh 6:34 They said, therefore, unto him, `Sir, always give us this bread.`
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said to them, `I am the bread of the life; 

This is the bread we always need.

Jeff
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Douglas Wayne Thomas

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2008, 05:31:48 AM »

Thank you to everyone that replied to my posts, there is some great information that was given to me. Also thank you everyone for not biting my head off for asking these questions. I did re-read the LoF series that people suggested. I just have one more point that I need clarified.

Notice that the "called" and the "chosen" cannot be the same group, as one is "many" and the other is "few."

I understand this statement, however these two groups are not mutually exclusive are they? Are not the chosen a subset of the called? How would one know they were chosen if they were not called first?

Maybe I am just reading this wrong, it would not be the first time I have read something wrong.

The way I view this is as a hierarchy. The higher levels are closer to God so to speak. The lower level with the most people is the called. The next level up with far fewer people are the chosen, however all of the chosen were drawn out of the pool of the called.

Am I viewing this correctly? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Seeking to do God's will always,

Douglas
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mharrell08

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2008, 06:04:39 AM »

Thank you to everyone that replied to my posts, there is some great information that was given to me. Also thank you everyone for not biting my head off for asking these questions. I did re-read the LoF series that people suggested. I just have one more point that I need clarified.

Notice that the "called" and the "chosen" cannot be the same group, as one is "many" and the other is "few."

I understand this statement, however these two groups are not mutually exclusive are they? Are not the chosen a subset of the called? How would one know they were chosen if they were not called first?

Maybe I am just reading this wrong, it would not be the first time I have read something wrong.

The way I view this is as a hierarchy. The higher levels are closer to God so to speak. The lower level with the most people is the called. The next level up with far fewer people are the chosen, however all of the chosen were drawn out of the pool of the called.

Am I viewing this correctly? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Seeking to do God's will always,

Douglas


Hello Douglas,

Yes, the 'chosen' are chosen from the 'called'. You also have the 'chosen and faithful' [Rev. 17:14] which are of the 'chosen'.

Called= Called out of the world into the physical church

Chosen= Chosen out of the physical church (Babylon; 'come out of her my people' Rev.18:4) into the true, spiritual church

Chosen and Faithful= the chosen who '...overcometh and shall not be hurt of the 2nd death' [Rev. 2:11] '...on such the 2nd death have no power' [Rev 20:6]

If you've read posts where a member may have asked 'who are the chosen' or 'are you one of the chosen', usually most if not all answer they hope to be but do not know for sure. The reason why is because it takes a lifetime to achieve this high calling [...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. Rev. 2:10] and also 'The Lord knoweth them that are his' [2 Tim 2:19]. Although this scripture does not say 'only' the Lord knows those that are his, reading through the epistles of Paul, Peter, etc., we do read of those who could be cast off so one can not be sure until the resurrection.


Hope this helps,

Marques
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Douglas Wayne Thomas

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2008, 06:43:46 AM »

Marques - Yes that helps very much, I agree; one has to be faithful till the end, the road is indeed very narrow.

Thank you for your insights.
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Sirach

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Re: Any true Churches
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2008, 08:16:52 AM »

All our eyes were opened by God's grace. We all started in the mainstream churches before we learned God's truth's. Personally, i dont feel anymore need going to the building called church and listen to hell and free will doctrines..but..it is the place where God brought me first, to be fed with milk.

God brought me out spiritually, but i stay attached physically in a sort of way. I have a 14 year old daughter, and all her friends go to church...im in no way going to forbid her to go...i talk to her about the teachings...but it is God, and only God, that opens eyes and minds. From what i see, the church does a lot of good also, and i keep taking part of that as long as im wellcome...becos when people want to talk with me...i will keep pointing them on what i learned the last 5 months.

in Christ
Robin
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