> General Discussions
Any true Churches
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: JeffH on September 28, 2008, 07:48:25 AM ---Are they teaching lies, if they believe them?
Satan is a liar and intentionally so. He deceives those whose eyes God has not chosen to open yet, as well as the elect at times. Pastors, ministers, preachers, priests believe what they do, because it's God's will. I'm certain that there are disingenuous, dishonest people knowingly fleecing deceived people who follow blasphemous doctrine, but do we forget that this is intentional?
Are all teachers Pharisees? Babylon has a purpose.
Where is the compassion, mercy, grace, patience and forgiveness of Christ in this?
I say this out of love for all of you because you are God's creation:
Sometimes when I come here, I feel like I'm at a country club and the rest of humanity is comprised of waiters and busboys.
Jeff
--- End quote ---
Hello Jeff,
1. Yes, they are teaching lies even if they believe them. A lie is still a lie. Whether the Lord opens one's eyes to the truth or not, He does not 'make' anyone sin or believe these heretical fables. Their carnal nature does that all by themselves. Though mankind is not responsible for sin, we are still nonetheless held accountable for our sins, which we do voluntarily.
2. We never forget that this is God's intention as 'All is of God' [Rom 11:36]. But Paul still admonishes us to 'abhor [Gk. dislike, have a horror of] that which is evil' Rom 12:9.
3. All that teach the doctrines of man as though of God are Pharisees, yes.
4. All the spiritual fruit of Christ has not gone anywhere. When we state how the 'church' is of Satan, it's not the people so much, just their teachings.
5. Sorry you feel that this is some kind of spiritual country-club. For this I have no answer as I do not see the forum in that way. If everyone on every post was talking about they were of the elect or some other statement to puff themselves up, then I could agree. But I really never see those kinds of statements.
Hope this helps,
Marques
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote from: JeffH on September 28, 2008, 07:48:25 AM ---
--- Quote ---I believe most churches teach you the milk of the word along with some corrupt doctrines. In other words the they teach some truth and mix in a lot lies with it.
--- End quote ---
Are they teaching lies, if they believe them?
Satan is a liar and intentionally so. He deceives those whose eyes God has not chosen to open yet, as well as the elect at times. Pastors, ministers, preachers, priests believe what they do, because it's God's will. I'm certain that there are disingenuous, dishonest people knowingly fleecing deceived people who follow blasphemous doctrine, but do we forget that this is intentional?
Are all teachers Pharisees? Babylon has a purpose.
Where is the compassion, mercy, grace, patience and forgiveness of Christ in this?
I say this out of love for all of you because you are God's creation:
Sometimes when I come here, I feel like I'm at a country club and the rest of humanity is comprised of waiters and busboys.
Jeff
--- End quote ---
1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
We should always remember that we did not get here because of anything we did.
The only difference between them and us is God has chosen us. You can read the reasons why he called us above.
Dennis
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote ---Sometimes when I come here, I feel like I'm at a country club and the rest of humanity is comprised of waiters and busboys.
--- End quote ---
Let me add:
It is a club of sorts, only you have it backwards. We are the waiters and busboys.
Everyone is born blind to the truth. You can take things you've learned here to almost any preacher (we never know if our words will change someone according to God's plan) and show them a simple truth and they will totally reject it.
It is a minor miracle that we see the truth (God simply removes the scales from our eyes), but it's a bigger miracle when the church is presented with the truth in a simple, obvious way, and they cannot see it.
I think I know what you are getting at Jeff: Many of these men are decent, caring individuals and do not deserve our scorn. You try and show them the simple truth and you will expierence their scorn. Same with your friends and family:
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
There but for the grace of God go I.
Dennis
KristaD:
--- Quote from: JeffH on September 28, 2008, 07:49:38 AM ---
--- Quote ---Ray doesn't call his home a church.
--- End quote ---
Semantics. You're missing the point.
--- End quote ---
The whole point is that Ray knows the definition of "church", those who erect a building and call it a church and deem that building a holy place where one must go to find God are deceived.
Beloved:
great visual metaphor Dennis.
The world thinks it is at a banquet, they are enjoying themselves for the most part but some folks are choking on their food. Some people have even been given very bads meals.
Those who have had their eyes and ears opened....are now waiters and busboys....they know the Chef and they are learning what is really good to eat..... but when they even try to make suggestions .......they are scorned and rediculed and belittled by their own family groups.
beloved
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